Remembering 9/11

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Banned
Mar 12, 2004
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Coulda,... woulda,... shoulda,...

Absolutely the collapse would melt metal and at least deform steel. I think you have no concept of just how much energy was involved.
Having trouble making up your mind again,....which is it,..."the collapse would melt metal",...OR,... "and at least deform steel".

Very insightful fuji,...when a building collapses,.... steel is deformed,...just what would we do without your immense knowledge.

In other words,...you have no clue what happened when the tower collapsed,...just more unsubstantiated fuji BULL SHIT.

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IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
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No what's classic is that you are so stuck on believing that WTC 7 fell on its own due to fire. That's fucking hilarious
A few comedy sketches for you:

Footage that kills the conspiracy theories: Unseen 9/11 footage shows WTC Building 7 consumed by fire - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest - http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/
 

italianguy74

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Apr 3, 2011
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GTA
Nobody has debunked the thermite reports. You guys are just claiming that molten metal leaking out the building is aluminum or glass, something that doesn't look anything like molten iron. Aluminum doesn't glow a bright orange color when its completely smelted,
whats to stop it from running down once it can start flowing at its melting point? Even if it was at maximum temperature of the fire it wouldn't glow under daylight conditions.
Hundreds of eye witness and victom reports of secondary explosions all throughout the elevator shafts that have no connection to the upper floors where the fire was. Ironically where the support columns are. The molten metal after the collapse was keeping its heat rather than cooling when the fires were out and the "massive energy" has stopped in the form of a pile of rubble. In 24-48 hours the metal should have cooled but it remaind intensely hot for weeks, only a chemical reaction can create and maintain its heat until the process is complete. Firefighters were amazed at how much water was being used to cool the metal and to no prevail, of course water is only effective at cooling natural heat, a thermite reaction is irreversable it cant be cooled with water even if it was submerged.

This guy nailed it with these demonstrations while exparimenting the effectiveness of thermite used for controlled demolition....I take it some ppl here dont know what a "demonstration" is but just watch anyways.

 

SuperCharge

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Jun 11, 2011
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A few comedy sketches for you:

Footage that kills the conspiracy theories: Unseen 9/11 footage shows WTC Building 7 consumed by fire - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Rare-footage-shows-WTC-7-consumed-fire.html

World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest - http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/
How about why the hell did they let that building continue to burn for 8 hours before it collapsed?? They had all damn day to put that fire out. Any answers for that? Anyone with a pair of working eyes could see exactly what happened with building 7 that day.
 

eznutz

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Jul 17, 2007
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Anybody who doubts the presence of thermite hasn't looked at all the evidence.
Even FEMA's WTC7 report alluded to it, https://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf

A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges--which are curled like a paper scroll--have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes--some larger than a silver dollar--let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes.
...
Evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent intergranular melting, was readily visible in the near-surface microstructure. A liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur formed during this hot corrosion attack on the steel.
...
The thinning of the steel occurred by high temperature corrosion due to a combination of oxidation and sulfidation.
...
The unusual thinning of the member is most likely due to an attack of the steel by grain boundary penetration of sulfur forming sulfides that contain both iron and copper.
...
liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur formed during this hot corrosion attack on the steel.
...
The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified. The rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure. A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires.
The simple facts of temperatures:
* ~1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
* ~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
* ~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating

How could a simple office fire burning at ~825ºC do this to the steel recovered at WTC7, when you need "very-high" temperatures in excess of 1500ºC.



Only THERMATE can account for the sulfur found in the samples.
Thermate is Thermite with sulfur added so it burns hotter and does the job quicker.
 

Promo

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Jan 10, 2009
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Fuck was that ever long winded.
You make a claim, provided a video as your proof and stated "world renowned architects and engineers" and "I suppose structural engineers who had worked on the UN building is a quack to you". I have proved conclusively that your primary expert is nothing more than "paid mouth" with NO relevant expertise, NO credentials, NO credibility and hasn't produced a peer reviewed document in 20++ years. Dr Hulsey was not the structural engineer on the UN building, the building was completed in 1952 and Hursey didn't graduate until 1976. He was not involved in the renovation. Since his expertise is in cold weather road surfaces, prove to us that his involvement was anything greater than repaving the parking lot.

Your other "star expert" Richard Gage is a complete boob.

Here's a whistleblower who worked for the NIST. "As a former employee of the Time and Frequency division of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) since 1960, with ongoing involvement in NIST conferences to this day, David W. Allan is disgusted with the prostitution of truth that has taken place in the case of the 9/11 investigations by NIST."

Let me guess, his credentials suck too!
Yes, his credentials suck.
- He graduated in 1965 with a M.Sc. in Physics. No Doctorate.
- He is not a civil engineer, a mechanical engineer, chemical engineer, has no structural forensics expertise, has never investigated a building collapse and has no demolition expertise.
- His expertise is in Atomic Clock Design and that is the ONLY field and company he has ever worked in until his forced retirement in 1992.
- Since then he has been very critical of NIST on many topics. <--- sounds like a disgruntled employee to me.
- He did not have access to any of the "raw" data that NIST used for their report and he was not involved with their investigation <-- like you he's just voicing a non-expert opinion.

http://www.allanstime.com/Bio/index.html

Your theory is a joke
Your proof is a joke
Your experts are jokes
Your responses to our rebuttals is a joke
 
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eznutz

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They are far more qualified than you, and far more qualified than the fake experts on YouTube you linked. Moreover, their expertise is actually in the appropriate fields. Finally, the NIST investigation was HUGE, involving many people, looking at many details.

The idea that so many people in and out of government were involved in a conspiracy theory is preposterous.
If you bothered to watch, you would of listened to Shyam Sunder & John Gross make asses of themselves trying to explain their findings.
Since you didn't and have nothing to offer, go slither back into that dark hole you call life.
 

frankcastle

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Feb 4, 2003
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I'm really not sure if the thing was a controlled demolition.

But is it really important for the plane to bring the building down? Isn't a plane flying into a building scarey enough?

If making a building collapse was the punchline then why use a plane? Why not just a bomb and pin it on terrorists?

Seems like a lot of work to create fear when you don't need much to set off fear of muslims.

The whole melting point stuff is stupid..... you don't need to turn metal into liquid for it to collapse. All you need is enough heat to allow it to bend.... after that gravity does the rest.

The pentagon stuff seems a bit more believable since I haven't seen pics with the plane engines which wouldn't disappear on impact.
 

huckfinn

My book has been banned from schools.
Aug 16, 2011
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On the Credit River with Jim
I really don't think the conspiracy side will convince the other, or vice versa, so throwing facts and insults won't solve this.

I do know, however, the steel only needed to get hot enough to soften and collapse. An earlier statement made that the steel was ULC tested to 2000 degrees? I doubt they tested every piece. Recall the Titanic.....faulty, brittle steel. I am sure they sample tested it too.

I just have one question......how did they possibly do all that work to put in the detonation explosives. It would probably be a few hundred thousand dollars worth of material and labour, and 100's of hours of work in addition to a huge work-force.

How did they manage to do this much work undetected, and how are they keeping everyone quiet? Surely someone would have proof they did it, and would come forward for publicity and money.
 

eznutz

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Posting more nonsense from YouTube doesn't make you less wrong, doesn't alter the laws of physics, and doesn't make your insane conspiracy theory any less ludicrous.

This particular crank you linked claims to have won a debate against himself. He also has said the passengers were all paid off and are secretly living on tropical islands. He actually has no relevant background and is an outright kook.

But I'm not really surprised that you were gullible enough to believe that pile of shit.
I'm not surprised your gullible enough to believe everything the government tells you.
You probably believe there are still WMD's in Iraq but they haven't found them yet.

Any way, this particular 'crank', Dr. Griscom PhD, (Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service) was invited to debate.
NOBODY on the "official government conspiracy" side accepted the offer. Not one physicist would accept the challenge to defend the official story.

I'm not surprise considering the 'global collapse' theory cannot be defended, except by you and 2 or 3 other people on this board.
 

Promo

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You guys are just claiming that molten metal leaking out the building is aluminum or glass, something that doesn't look anything like molten iron. Aluminum doesn't glow a bright orange color when its completely smelted
Wrong, yes molten aluminum and/or glass can absolutely look bright orange at temperatures below the known fire temperatures in the WTC. We have provided 3 separate independent sources of information and a simple google image search of "smelted aluminium" will prove this as fact.

whats to stop it from running down once it can start flowing at its melting point?
This was already reasonably explained in the video URL I provided.

Hundreds of eye witness and victom reports of secondary explosions all throughout the elevator shafts that have no connection to the upper floors where the fire was.
How do "eyewitnesses" on the ground see through the structure of the building to witness "secondary explosions all throughout the elevator shaft" <-- do they have x-ray vision?
How do these same "witnesses" know precisely where the sound came within the building? These people were surrounded by 100s of sources of loud noise, they were at least 4 blocks from the building (police created a 4 block zone within an hour of the attack) and the human ear cannot easily locate a unique source of noise within a few feet from 1000s of feet away and inside a structure.

Nobody has debunked the thermite reports.
There are 100s of website debunking this theory.

Ironically where the support columns are.
Ummm dah. What makes the WTC so unique is that there are no support columns throughout the floors. Just the elevator core and outside columns. If you are trying to say that the elevator shaft below the fire floors was destroyed using explosives, there is no way that the eyewitnesses could know that as the outside of the building blocked their view. Most controlled demolition conspiracy theories claim the thermite was used on the outside columns and the joints between the floor structure and the core and outside columns.


The molten metal after the collapse was keeping its heat rather than cooling when the fires were out and the "massive energy" has stopped in the form of a pile of rubble. In 24-48 hours the metal should have cooled but it remaind intensely hot for weeks, only a chemical reaction can create and maintain its heat until the process is complete.
UGH. You really need to research better. Two of the main advantages of thermite is it burns very hot and fast. Thermite itself does not continue to generate a chemical reaction and therefore heat once it's done. In your video, both demos lasted less than 10 seconds with no glowing afterwards. So your theory is wrong. Any continued heat in the rubble would be as a result of the fires and collapse itself as has already been proven in this thread.

a thermite reaction is irreversable it cant be cooled with water even if it was submerged.
Depending on how it was designed to burn, the thermite reaction would last from seconds to less than a minute - as supported by YOUR video. Your argument is nonsense.

This guy nailed it with these demonstrations while exparimenting the effectiveness of thermite used for controlled demolition....I take it some ppl here dont know what a "demonstration" is but just watch anyways.
Nice video, but zero proof that's what actually happened in the WTC.


Now you please explain to us:
1) How the bad-guys got the 100+ tons of thermite into the building, installed it in 100s and 100s of locations needed, wired it, repaired all evidence of the installation without anyone seeing
2) Managed to keep the 100s of people involved quiet for 16 years
3) Convince 1000+ experts to buy into their fake story
4) Why? Why did they do it?? What did they gain??? Insurance money? A war? Why?
5) How do you convince 100s of people to murder 1000s of fellow Americans with no real gain to America?
6) The logistics of wiring the building was immense! The resultant need to fly the planes into a very specific floor almost impossible. The chance of the explosive wiring not being damaged almost impossible. The chance of unexploded thermite being found was high. C'mon, get real!
7) YOUR video clearly shows that all that is required for the thermite to melt a 1 inch wide slot into each structural location. That would generate ..... 5? ounces of liquid metal each? Multiple that by 200 locations. I'm guessing of course, but lets say is was 10X more of each. That's very little molten metal compared to what poured out of the building and was found in the rubble.
 

Promo

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Jan 10, 2009
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Anybody who doubts the presence of thermite hasn't looked at all the evidence.
Even FEMA's WTC7 report alluded to it, https://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf
....................
Only THERMATE can account for the sulfur found in the samples.
Thermate is Thermite with sulfur added so it burns hotter and does the job quicker.
Incorrect there are other, plentiful and normal sources of sulfur that could have been found in the samples. Examples:
- Steel, glass, cement, adhesives and rubber
- furniture, paper, plastic
- gypsum in the wallboard
- Diesel fuel oil for the emergency generator in WTC7
- Aluminum reaction with gypsum

At the WTC fire temperatures, it is possible that these common sources of sulphur could have reacted and/or contaminated the samples.

That's why the author of your provided article stated "The rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure. A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires." <-- he's basically saying the results could potentially be a result of the post collapse fires OR potentially as a result of the initial fires, more study is required. I don't see where he hinted at thermate.

Articles that discredit your theory that "Only THERMATE can account for the sulfur found in the samples":
http://www.911myths.com/html/sulfur_at_the_wtc.html
http://www.911myths.com/Sulfur.pdf

http://www.usesof.net/uses-of-sulfur.html
 

Promo

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I'm not surprised your gullible enough to believe everything the government tells you.
I agree in that it's important that we all keep an open mind. Gov'ts have certainly bullsh*tted us in the past. Allot.

But why did the bad-guys do it in this case? frankcastle makes a great point, they could have gotten the same results (?) cheaper, faster and with ALLOT less risk than destroying the WTCs.

I counter your statement with: There are allot of people making allot of money out of creating false 9/11 theories and broadcasting them on the net. Dr Hursey being a perfect example, he's on the tour circuit getting paid to speak about his theory - if it wan't for 9/11, he'd still be a nobody in Alaska. Same can be said for the 100s of other experts. Look at all the websites getting paid for hits. 9/11 conspiracy theory is big business.
 

IM469

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Jul 5, 2012
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How about why the hell did they let that building continue to burn for 8 hours before it collapsed?? They had all damn day to put that fire out. Any answers for that? Anyone with a pair of working eyes could see exactly what happened with building 7 that day.


This may come as a surprise but a lot of firefighters and fire trucks were not in any condition to fight the fire. The fire at WT7 was intense and getting worse as there was no water for the sprinklers. The building had been successfully evacuated earlier by building security (it was empty), a lot of firefighters already dead so the decision was made to withdraw and let it burn rather than risk more lives for salvaging real estate.

Taking into account the circumstances - it is not a surprise that they let it burn.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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...
Math doesn't lie, just the guy who invented his own numbers to justify a result.
At least you are no longer claiming to be on the side of science. You have absolutely no theory on how the building collapsed but only want to try and cast doubt on the accepted. Your claims have nothing to do with science but rather have a faith based belief that the government was responsible.

If you have a better theory as to how the building collapsed I'm willing to discuss it. The rest is just bullshit like your Hillary conspiracies.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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... contains world renowned architects and engineers ...
Do you think 0.01% of American engineers believing in bullshit like that has any relevance? If any of those engineers had ever worked on tube-frame design of anywhere near that magnitude I might give their views some credibility.

BTW. I am also an engineer with as much renown in my field as the guys in the video. I'm sure you'll put as much weight to my opinion as you do to those in the video right?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Nobody has debunked the thermite reports....
I'll do it pretty easily.

How come no one saw thermite on all the exterior structural elements of the building?

How were they able to place themite at exactly the points where the planes were going to crash?

And since every external beam was load carrying, why would they just use thermite on a few? Knocking out 4 or 5 beams out a a hundred or so would have zero impact (unlike the plane that had a massive impact).
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Anybody who doubts the presence of thermite hasn't looked at all the evidence.
Even FEMA's WTC7 report alluded to it, ....
Wait. They were not only able to secretly place invisible thermite on the exterior of the twin towers but also installed thermite in WTC7 because they knew that would be damaged by falling debris and be on fire just so they cold make a third building collapse?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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You make a claim, provided a video as your proof and stated "world renowned architects and engineers"...
Kudos on taking the time to destroy these 'experts'.

But since he is a conspiracy theorist he will ignore it and just move on to his next bullshit.
 
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