relationship question

[alexmst]

But, if she's at all close to her parents, it will always be a wedge between you & her (

Yes, I agree.

Of course this could apply to inter-racial, inter-religious, or just plain old gentile-to-gentile relationships with something that annoyed her parents, like a 25-year age difference. If the girl is very close to her parents and really cares about their approval and support, and they don't like you for whatever reason they have (esp. if it is something that you are unable to change eg: your race, religion, age, etc), then the wedge could always be there.

Back in high school I remember a Catholic kid was dating a Lutheran girl, and his parents hit the roof when he told them she wasn't Catholic (and wasn't interested in becoming so) and they told him that if he got engaged to her they would disown him. His counter-argument to them that she wasn't very into religion and was more of an agnostic didn't help his cause at all - I think it made them even more opposed to her. Not sure how that one worked out.

 

[seewhatigot449]

I have been dating this really nice girl for a few months.....She has my complete attention to the point where I have zero interest in hobbying..

Now that is romance.

 

[alexmst]

However she is jewish and her parents are not comfortable with her dating a non jew. I have met them a few times and they arent friendly.

I'm not jewish, but here is some info from jewish sites on the web on this topic:

"RE: Can a jew marry a gentile and have a full jewish wedding?

The short answer is no. According to Jewish law there is no legal marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew. Some Reform and Reconstructionist rabbis will perform intermarriage ceremonies but Conservative and Orthodox rabbis will not perform such ceremonies. Even though the Torah forbids a Jewish woman to marry a Gentile man, if she does, her children will still be Jewish. When the Torah speaks of the Law against marrying a non-Jew (Deuteronomy 7:3), here is what the Torah says:

"Do not intermarry with them; do not give your daughter to his son, and do not take his daughter for your son"


Maybe her family are Conservative and want a big wedding for her one day?


Or, here's another perspective if her parents are not overly religious (also from the net):

Why are my Non-Religious Parents Against my Marrying a Non-Jew?

By Aron Moss

Question:

Rabbi, I am not asking for a sermon - I get enough of them from my parents. I am asking for an explanation.

I am seriously dating a girl who is everything I ever dreamed of. She is smart, pretty, funny...definitely marriage material. But - you guessed it - she isn't Jewish. My parents have refused to even meet her and have told me that if we get married they won't come to the wedding. My grandmother is beside herself.

My question is: my parents aren't religious, we never kept kosher or any of the festivals. There was nothing very Jewish about our home. Why all of a sudden are they so Jewish when it comes to who I marry? Isn't that totally hypocritical? When I ask them this they just answer, "This is different", but that makes no sense to me. Why is this different?

Answer:

That is not just the question of the week; that's the question of the generation: Why does intermarriage touch a nerve in so many people more than any other Jewish issue?

Your frustration is well-founded. It is unreasonable of your parents to expect Judaism to be important to you if it never seemed important to them. What's more, they can't explain to you why they feel the way they do. They probably can't even explain it to themselves. But I have a theory.

There is a profound truth that somehow our parents learnt subconsciously from their parents, and that is: Jewishness is who you are, not what you do.

There is no such thing as one Jew who is more Jewish than another. Whether you practice Jewish customs or not, keep the festivals or not, live in Israel or not, eat chopped liver or not, a Jew is a Jew is a Jew. Jewishness is an irreversible status that is not defined by how you live your life.

A Jew may be sitting in a church eating bacon on Yom Kippur dressed up as Santa Claus, but he's still 100% Jewish. Is he a good Jew? A faithful Jew? A proud Jew? G-d knows. But a Jew he remains. Because Jewishness isn't something you do; it's something you are. Nothing you do can affect who you are.

Nothing, that is, with one exception: whom you marry.

The person you marry becomes a part of who you are. Getting married is not a hobby or a career move; it is making someone else a part of your identity, and becoming a part of theirs. Your spouse fills a void in your very being, and you fill the void in them. So marriage, like Jewishness, is not something you do, it is something you are.

There is nothing wrong with non-Jews. But they aren't Jewish. If you marry a non-Jew, you're still 100% Jewish, but a part of you - your other half - is not. You can be happy together. You can be in love with each other. But there is a part of you that you will never share.

Maybe this is the challenge of our generation: to face the questions of what it means to be in love, what it means to marry, and what it means to be Jewish. And - unlike any generation before us - come up with real answers.

 

[Terminator2000]

My two worthless cents.

Try to keep the relationship a secret. No one has to know. Look what happens when they know, it creates problems. A real relationship will always have problems. Me & my S.O., I knew we were serious because one day we had a fight. I never argued with a girl before. We cared enough, that we actually had a fight. The first of many as it turned out. Keep it a secret. A real relationship will have enough friction between the two principals, no need to inject friction from outside.

One point you probably already know in your subconscience, that you will never be accepted. In that no matter what happens, you can never be thought as "one of the family". No matter what. If there are kids, the kids are accepted as "part of the family", but not the father in your case, never.

Lastly, the question here is mainly the for the girl to solve in your case. She won't dump her family for you. She wants her family, and you. She does not want to be backlisted by mom & dad. You can be blacklisted by mom & dad, but not her. A point that many do not appreciate.

Just stay out of sight, and the relationship has a better chance of succeeding. Look at all the folks who frequent courtesans. Keeping it a secret works.

If the relationship matures and marriage is next, just get married or elope. By then the parents give up, "thinking, if they tried that long to break them up and it still did not happen, that's it, it was meant to be and we're screwed! Oh Jesus!"

The parents are a concern, but go enjoy yourself. It is not often you will be in love.

Fuck, I can believe I am writing this crap on a forum like this! More beer!

Here's my two worthless cents,

Worry about the parents later. Like after 5 years where you already built a solid foundation of a strong relationship between you two. What the parents dont know won't hurt them. Then 5 years later, you can expose the big secret and whatever the parent's reaction will be, won't matter because you'll have 5 years of a strong, solid foundation between the both of you, not a pitiful, weak history of 1 or 2 months between you that can easily be broken by something as irrelevant as the reaction and opinions of the parents.

Just remember this:

10 years from now, when you're living on your own, apart from the parents. Is what your parents think really going to matter? When you're fully independent and living apart from the parents.

How often do we manage to win a relationship with a girl we totally dig? Dude, if you lose her. You'll be regretting it for the next 10 years and kicking yourself in the ass every single day. Don't lose her. If you do let her go, it'll be the biggest fuck up you ever made in your life. The biggest mistake of your life. Don't fuck it up.

Also, lastly...Don't forget. A parent's opposing views and opposing opinions against a kid's romance has been going on for centuries. Romeo and Juliet ala Shakespeare (around 1000 years ago..) also suffered the same dilemma you did. It's nothing new.

Oh, one last thing...Why should the parent's opinion and views towards her matter anyways? Who's the one who's spending time with her and being in her company? Is it the parents? Or is it you? Wtf does it have to do with them anyways? They're not the ones who has to spend time with her and be her companion. They can live their lives separately and independently from her, anyways. Its your life, not their's.

 

[james t kirk]

A female friend of mine was in a similar situation.

She just told her parents, "be happy he's white" (Don't get me wrong her folks, you just have to see the humour in the statement.)

Anyway, this is what it's going to come down to:

How strong is she

How strong are you.

I would have no problem marrying a jewish woman. I would never ask her to convert, or force any Catholic jazz on her. However, I would expect the same courtesy.

Come to think of it, there could be some benefits, like getting all those Jewish holidays off work with full pay, AND the Christian ones too.

 

[tboy]

As with othrs, here's my 2 cents:
1) Keeping it a secret: Tried that and all the sneaking around doesn't work. For eg: family wants her to do something, she can't because she is seeing you and has to make up an excuse (aka lie). Unless she's really really good they will know something's up. Because the world is the way it is, if you go out with her, if you weren't hiding it, you'd never run into anyone she knew. But because you're hiding your relationship everytime you go out, someone will see and report back to the parents.
2) Living together away from the parents: Even though they shouldn't have too much influence over a daughter who isn't living with them, many women do allow their parents (especially their mothers) to continue to be a major influence in their lives. How many stories have you heard about meddling mother in laws? I've read thousands. So if it's a problem now, it will be a problem then too because they will constantly be "ashamed" of her and make that well know to her whenever there's a family get together.
3) The best advice is still to find out how she feels about the situation. It will depend on how strong her feelings are for you because she WILL get beat up over the conflict. I find that parents who put this pressure on their daughter (or son for that matter) are extremely selfish and self centered and have no interest in the happiness of their children (this is from first hand experience).

The thing that I could never understand about situations like this is why on earth would any parent come between a child and their happiness? I mean, no matter what, bottom line is we are all just people, who cares if one prays to their invisible friend instead of praying to my invisible friend? I mean really, it's not like she's running off to borneo to have sex with monkeys or anything lol.....

 

[Mongrel4u]

Chazz.... your looking for answers to your questions in the wrong place .

I have to respectfully disagree....

When it comes to issues like interracial relationships there are no "professionals" to consult....All you have is your own as well as the experience of others to go on. Terb has a good cross-section of people in varying stages of life and lifestyle...many of us are in interracial marriages/ relationships; past and present.

In the end of the day its up to him what choice he makes, but a place like TERB is a good starting point.

 

[Mongrel4u]

The thing that I could never understand about situations like this is why on earth would any parent come between a child and their happiness? I mean, no matter what, bottom line is we are all just people, who cares if one prays to their invisible friend instead of praying to my invisible friend? I mean really, it's not like she's running off to borneo to have sex with monkeys or anything lol.....

I've always wondered this as well.

Also when they are afraid that the parents will disown them as a result:

1) How could any parent disown or turn their back on their child?

and..

2) If you really feel that your parents would do something like that; wouldn't that sound the "warning bells? What kind of "parents" do you have? Do they truly love you? Can they even be trusted?.....thats a harsh realization to come to about the two people that claimed to love you all your life

 

[lawyerman]

You must sort this out before your relationship goes any further. If you both have similar beliefs, then it shouldn't be much of an issue. Do you believe in God? If you do and I am sure that she does if she is Jewish, then that is a good thing.

My significant other and I were brought up in different cultures and religious beliefs. She has taught me a great deal and she actually opened my eyes in regards to certain things where as I was very narrow minded. If you do care about her, try to understand where she is coming from. You do not necessarily have to agree to it but respect it. I think everyone should try and have some knowledge towards different religions. God might have different names in some religions but basically most people believe in one God.

Basically, Jews do not believe that Jesus was a prophet or the Messiah.

I believe that if you are a good person and do not be cruel, then you are definitely on the right track.

You are living your life and you should live it to the fullest. Don't have her parents interfere.

I was dating a girl and we had similar beliefs. Her parents were so strict and I was absolutely in love with this girl. In the end, we broke up because she did not want to hold me back from seeing other women. I told her that I would wait for her for however long it takes.

What I am trying to say is that if she is living through her parents, you are second best.

I am sure you don't want to live your life being second best.

Things happen for a reason. I have a great life and my soul has been enriched by my significant other. Don't get me wrong, we still argue at times like anyone else but all in all I can't complain.

Sincerely,

Lawyerman

 

[great bear]

Impress the parents by getting circumsized.

 

[tboy]

I've always wondered this as well.

Also when they are afraid that the parents will disown them as a result:

1) How could any parent disown or turn their back on their child?

and..

2) If you really feel that your parents would do something like that; wouldn't that sound the "warning bells? What kind of "parents" do you have? Do they truly love you? Can they even be trusted?.....thats a harsh realization to come to about the two people that claimed to love you all your life

Know what really gave me the shivers? When I saw a picture in the paper of insurgents in Iraq....that wasn't too bad except one of them was holding his (what looked like) 18 month old son. That wasn't too bad either except they had draped a bandolier of machine gun bullets around the baby....

F me that speaks volumes as to what we face in the future.....

 

[TQM]

I'm not Italian

but live with someone who is.

Basically, for the relationship to work, you will have to outsmart her parents. They are against the relationship; they'll feel "ashamed" that this is happening to their daughter and will feel ashamed amongst their friends and peers.

They are wrong, but there's nobody said life is fair.

So - you can work on trying to soften them up; trying to win them over. It won't be easy though. Depending on the depth of their convictions, they likely view the relationship as by definition immoral.

My suggestion - attempt in as nice a way as is possible that you inflict yourself on them - so that they can get used to them. Spend time with them. Clue your girlfriend into the plan. Insert yourself in a non-intrusive way, into their life, showing them loyalty as the parents of your girlfriend.

No guarantees - but it is harder to dislike someone you kind of like.

You'll likely have to put up with a lot. They are likely demonizing you and they won't like to see you engaged in flirtatious, sexual behaviour. If you instead show great respect for their daughter, you have a better chance - so no frenching her in front of her parents.

Lastly, use your girlfriend to your advantage. Get her on your side. Let her see your efforts. Never show her resentment toward her parents. Shrug it off - tell her you understand where they are coming from. She will be your only ally here.

Avoid confrontation.

 

[red]

I have been dating this really nice girl for a few months.....She has my complete attention to the point where I have zero interest in hobbying..

However she is jewish and her parents are not comfortable with her dating a non jew. I have met them a few times and they arent friendly.

My question is; has anyone been in an similar situation that they care to share?

dating a few months? as long as you are still enjoying the relationship- I wouldn't worry about this now. yeah its a big problem if you want to marry the girl, but fuck, I wouldn't be thinkin about that this soon.

 

[BallzDeep]

Save them money on something, they'll love you then.

 

[Mozo]

i think the best approach is to be more direct and aggressive. it's obvious that up until now, you've been to gentile with the parents.

 

[steel24]

i heard that jewish women grive great head... until they get married.

 

[Meister]

I will tell my kids to marry a black Rabbi of Asian decent.

Wait, can Rabbis get married?

 

[basketcase]

My Jewish grandfather married my Anglican grandmother back in the 1930's. They lived happily together for 50+ years despite what friends, family, and society said.

If you are happy and she's happy, the rest doesn't matter.



p.s. a couple months and you're thinking marriage?

 

[chazz_matzz]

No just planning ahead.....marriage is years away.....we both agree on that

I was asking the question to the fellow Terbies to see what other ppls views were on the topic

 

[chazz_matzz]

I had a long conversation with my GF and we have decided to slowly work on her parents.....She cares a great deal about what they think but says she wants me as part of her life

For the time being I will take it as it comes.....

Thanks for all the great advice