Ashley Madison

Real Reason for US War with Iran

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
Is it bot, (otb) or is it rogie?

rogerstaubach said:
The "Iran Oil Bourse" wet dream is perpetuated by the gold brokerage houses. Chin strap your tin foil hats, and enjoy the ride!
rogerstaubach said:
Good points lange. However, your sensible and reasonable responses don't have the "SHLOCK & SHOCK" value that Pecker's dubious "credible" David Dukuesqe and Petrovuesqe endorsed pastes have.

Why be reasonable when you can be paranoidly apocalyptic?
Funny how strangly absent bot has been?
But then we have both arcy & rogie waxing 'bot-esque'!
Too funny!!!......

Is that really you bot????......:D
Dubya is even confused !!!
 

arclighter

Guest
Nov 25, 2005
1,527
0
0
WoodPeckr said:
LOL!
Sounds great bot.....opps I mean arcy....geeesh hard to tell the difference you both talk alike.....:p

Anywhooo!....for what it's worth, here's another interesting take on why China and many others may want to dump the US Dollar! Enjoy.......

http://www.sibernews.com/the-news/world-news/collapse-of-u.s.-economy-imminent-200601223513/


Collapse of U.S. Economy Imminent

Written by SiberNews Media Team
Sunday, 22 January 2006

Doom and gloom, etc...
More trenchant analysis from Sri Lanka.

Since the collapse is "imminent", why not put your bed wetting mouth where your money is? I say the US economy will still be humming along 12 months from now. Whatcha think bed wetter? Go ahead bet on Armageddon, it is a mortal lock. Just have faith in your Sri Lankan buddies.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
A Texan sings about the present USA

arclighter said:
Since the collapse is "imminent", why not put your bed wetting mouth where your money is? I say the US economy will still be humming along 12 months from now.
Yeah.......that economy is humming along........for the rich & super-rich.

Here's how it looks to a guy in Texas, of all places.
It ain't pretty but then again he represents the 'little people' that mean nothing to Team 'w'......

It's a great song, he's pretty good.....for a Texan!
James McMurtry - We Can't Make it Here .....as he sings about the results of Cheney/Bush corporate economic policies......enjoy:

http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/window/media/player/listen/0,,3215679,00.html
 

Truncador

New member
Mar 21, 2005
1,714
0
0
WoodPeckr said:
Hey ! I notice you never write any insulting epigrams about me atop the G.W.B. pic in your sig line. What am I, chopped liver :mad:
 

arclighter

Guest
Nov 25, 2005
1,527
0
0
WoodPeckr said:
Yeah.......that economy is humming along........for the rich & super-rich.

Here's how it looks to a guy in Texas, of all places.
It ain't pretty but then again he represents the 'little people' that mean nothing to Team 'w'......

It's a great song, he's pretty good.....for a Texan!
James McMurtry - We Can't Make it Here .....as he sings about the results of Cheney/Bush corporate economic policies......enjoy:

http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/window/media/player/listen/0,,3215679,00.html
So are you going to nut up and take my bet? Or are you just a little spouting coward? Just think of all the glory to be had once the US economy collapses later this year. Yes it is going to be a great year for the bed wetters, just keep reading those blogs.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
Truncador said:
Hey ! I notice you never write any insulting epigrams about me atop the G.W.B. pic in your sig line. What am I, chopped liver :mad:

LOL....just saw this one.

I don't consider them to be 'insulting epigrams'. Think of them as more of a cartoon caption similar to Garry Trudeau's Doonesbury, or something Jon Stewart may say on his Daily Show. Jon Stewart has more credibility than K Rove, Rush Limbaugh and the whole Faux News propaganda networks combined.

Well for one truncy you're not on as much of late and you don't strike me as being as much of an 'off the wall frothing at the mouth' blind bushie bootlicker as some of our other far far far righties here. Perhaps you can work on that. Maybe that brief stint you did as a leftie in your formative years gives you a little bit more of a balanced outlook on things.
You seem to see a difference between the 'State' and the 'State of Dubya'.

The State of Dubya trumps
Law and all other States!!!
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
arclighter said:
So are you going to nut up and take my bet? Or are you just a little spouting coward? Just think of all the glory to be had once the US economy collapses later this year. Yes it is going to be a great year for the bed wetters, just keep reading those blogs.

Listen to James McMurtry - We Can't Make it Here- song: http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/window/media/player/listen/0,,3215679,00.html very very closely arcy.
Sadly this is what far too many people are facing in present day USA.
Dubya doesn't solve problems.....he just makes everything worse.......:mad:

Just taking care of MIC business !!!
 

arclighter

Guest
Nov 25, 2005
1,527
0
0
WoodPeckr said:
Listen to James McMurtry - We Can't Make it Here- song: http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/window/media/player/listen/0,,3215679,00.html very very closely arcy.
Sadly this is what far too many people are facing in present day USA.
Dubya doesn't solve problems.....he just makes everything worse.......:mad:

Just taking care of MIC business !!!
I listened to the song. How profound. "We can’t make it hear anymore", yet the idiot clearly made a song "here". I guess the entertainment industry doesn’t count. Only unskilled manufacturing jobs are to be fretted over.

What is your solution to the loss of our manufacturing base? What are the great leaders of the Democratic Party offering? What did Clinton do to protect these jobs?

In the interest of expediency I assume you will argue that we should implement protectionist tariffs. To help us understand tariffs, let’s look at the recent problems at Delphi. The Delphi line workers are averaging $27 per hour, and the Chinese .20 cents. So all we have to do is have the non-Delphi workers like you and I kick in $26.80 per hour to save these precious unskilled jobs (in the form of tariffs). The downside is that the price of a new Chevy just went up $10,000 dollars. This $10,000 can’t be used for items such as health care, education, food, clothing, housing, business expansion, etc… It also can’t be spent with companies such as Intel that are in fact globally competitive and not in need of subsidies. In the end, you have taken this money out of the economy so that an unskilled line worker can receive his $27 per hour.

I personally don’t think it is wise to reward non-competitive industries. In a global marketplace, such inefficient use of capital ends up lowering your standard of living. The US still has industry leading companies such as Intel, Google, IBM, MicroSoft, General Electric, Johnson and Johnson, Boeing, Walmart, Disney, and many more. These companies survive without tariffs, and it keeps them efficient and competitive. Ultimately, if you aren’t good at anything, you will suffer. I still believe in American ingenuity and resourcefulness and am not overly concerned about the loss of unskilled jobs. You and Mr. McMurty have a much more pessimistic view of American economic capabilities and feel that without unskilled line jobs, the middle class will collapse.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
Corporate Greed Killing the American Dream

The American Dream used to state all Americans could easily partake in it, as long as they were willing to work for it. It applied equally to the unskilled as well as the skilled worker. Face it all people are not college material but jobs were always available if you couldn't go to college and it was another way of sharing in that American Dream of old. There are far more unskilled workers out there than skilled and if you don't give them a fair chance to lead a repected life, as was policy and expected in the past, you had better build an awful lot of prisons because you will be needing somewhere to house them when they go about searching for alternative ways to survive and are forced into crime as a last resort. It is pretty elitist to look down on the unskilled as if they don't matter and that they deserve the ill that comes their way because they weren't able to receive a higher education or even training. Someone has to do unskilled work and it's better our people do it than the exploitation of people in third world countries by our multinational corporations as is now the case.

Delphi is just the tip of the present Auto industry crisis that face the US Big Two, GM & Ford. Chrysler is history, lost and a German auto company now with the more correct name of Daimler Chrysler. If nothing changes in a few short years both GM & Ford will also go bankrupt like Delphi has and the auto industry will be lost just as Steel, Textiles, the Shoe, TV, Audio/Stero, Video and Camera industries have vanished just to mention a few. Many of these industries failed due to corporate greed and terrible mismanagement. Toyota recently criticized Delphi's CEO Miller saying Toyota has no problems with the American workers, saying they are some of the most productive workers in the world and that's why Toyota is building more of their auto plants in the USA. Toyota pays their nonunion American workers $60,000/yr without overtime while Delphi proposes paying their workers $20,000/yr in their last bankruptcy offer to their union workforce.

This will even get worse for all auto companies both US and Toyota next year when Red China starts exporting cars into the USA for under $10,000. Pictures of this Chinese sedan, the Geely, are already available if you 'google' it. This globalization or 'Wall-Marting' of the USA will be the cause of a massive erosion of US standards of living and if left unchecked will turn the US into a third world country where only the rich and poor exist. The middle class will be extinct.

While it's fashionable to Blame Clinton's NAFTA for all these globalization problems, the fact of the matter is Reagan first propsed NAFTA back in his administrations. Clinton was forced/pressured by GOP and corporate interests into passing NAFTA but at least Clinton did put an 'escape clause' into NAFTA, whereby NAFTA could be easily voided if it caused the loss of too many good paying US jobs. So it is quite disingenuous for the GOP to say this as all Clinton's fault. If those in the GOP really cared about the plight of the US worker as they allege, all the GOP has to do is invoke this 'escape clause' built in NAFTA and void NAFTA. Don't hold your breath though. The corporate interests that own the GOP lock stock and barrel, would have their hides if they dared do something so altruistic.......:eek:
 

arclighter

Guest
Nov 25, 2005
1,527
0
0
WoodPeckr said:
The American Dream used to state all Americans could easily partake in it, as long as they were willing to work for it. It applied equally to the unskilled as well as the skilled worker. Face it all people are not college material but jobs were always available if you couldn't go to college and it was another way of sharing in that American Dream of old. There are far more unskilled workers out there than skilled and if you don't give them a fair chance to lead a repected life, as was policy and expected in the past, you had better build an awful lot of prisons because you will be needing somewhere to house them when they go about searching for alternative ways to survive and are forced into crime as a last resort. It is pretty elitist to look down on the unskilled as if they don't matter and that they deserve the ill that comes their way because they weren't able to receive a higher education or even training. Someone has to do unskilled work and it's better our people do it than the exploitation of people in third world countries by our multinational corporations as is now the case.

Delphi is just the tip of the present Auto industry crisis that face the US Big Two, GM & Ford. Chrysler is history, lost and a German auto company now with the more correct name of Daimler Chrysler. If nothing changes in a few short years both GM & Ford will also go bankrupt like Delphi has and the auto industry will be lost just as Steel, Textiles, the Shoe, TV, Audio/Stero, Video and Camera industries have vanished just to mention a few. Many of these industries failed due to corporate greed and terrible mismanagement. Toyota recently criticized Delphi's CEO Miller saying Toyota has no problems with the American workers, saying they are some of the most productive workers in the world and that's why Toyota is building more of their auto plants in the USA. Toyota pays their nonunion American workers $60,000/yr without overtime while Delphi proposes paying their workers $20,000/yr in their last bankruptcy offer to their union workforce.

This will even get worse for all auto companies both US and Toyota next year when Red China starts exporting cars into the USA for under $10,000. Pictures of this Chinese sedan, the Geely, are already available if you 'google' it. This globalization or 'Wall-Marting' of the USA will be the cause of a massive erosion of US standards of living and if left unchecked will turn the US into a third world country where only the rich and poor exist. The middle class will be extinct.

While it's fashionable to Blame Clinton's NAFTA for all these globalization problems, the fact of the matter is Reagan first propsed NAFTA back in his administrations. Clinton was forced/pressured by GOP and corporate interests into passing NAFTA but at least Clinton did put an 'escape clause' into NAFTA, whereby NAFTA could be easily voided if it caused the loss of too many good paying US jobs. So it is quite disingenuous for the GOP to say this as all Clinton's fault. If those in the GOP really cared about the plight of the US worker as they allege, all the GOP has to do is invoke this 'escape clause' built in NAFTA and void NAFTA. Don't hold your breath though. The corporate interests that own the GOP lock stock and barrel, would have their hides if they dared do something so altruistic.......:eek:
We all understand that globalization has caused a shift in production from high labor cost areas to lower ones.

So what exactly is your solution?

My solution is to let the market do what it does best - allocate resources efficiently. If that means the US sells Google ads instead of making shirts, then so be it.

Aside from labor, companies gravitate from higher tax areas to lower ones. Eliminate corporate taxes, and you take away this incentive. The increased business activity expected from becoming a corporate tax haven will in the end increase wages; employments levels, and ultimately tax revenues.

Look at New Hampshire’s business friendly tax environment versus her next-door neighbor’s Vermont. Which state do you think is doing better economically?

Nearly every economist agrees that tariffs are nothing more than a wasteful tax that ultimately weakens the industry it is trying to protect, and lowers everyone’s standard of living. Subsidize something and you get more of it. Subsidize inefficiency and non-competitiveness and you get more of the same.

I own a business in the wonderful Peoples Republic of Michigan. We have the single most repressive business tax in the nation. It is called the Michigan Single Business Tax. Do you think companies are anxious to locate new facilities in Michigan? Our unemployment rate speaks for itself.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
More on the upcoming Oil Bourse

arclighter said:
We all understand that globalization has caused a shift in production from high labor cost areas to lower ones.

So what exactly is your solution?

My solution is to let the market do what it does best - allocate resources efficiently.
This is all very complex.
The simple answer, we must protect our worker's jobs, they should be viewed as part of US national security just like national defense.
However if this coming Oil Bourse takes off, all bets are off and all those points will be moot.
US Dollar hegemony may be ending with dire consequences for the US.


Posted by: APR on Jan 29, 2006 - 05:48 AM

Beating Around the Bush By the Bourse

by Ingmar Lee

bourse /n. a stock exchange, esp. in Europe. ~Canadian Oxford Dictionary

Only bimbos believed Bush when he said it was WMD's that made him attack, invade, occupy and massacre Iraq. Most of us thought it was to steal Iraq's oil, but we were only partly right. What totally terrorized the tyrannical Texan tycoon was when Saddam played the oil bourse card in November, 2000. When Saddam started selling Iraqi oil in euro's, he jeopardized greenback hegemony as the world's supreme foreign exchange transaction currency. If this brilliant idea catches on, it will trigger the total collapse of the USA economy. The oil grab is a sideshow. The main feature is the oil bourse.

The Neocon global domination agenda is engendered by the denomination of global oil transactions in greenbacks. America prints out the bucks that are required for the purchase of oil, and the world has to produce stuff they can sell to get the bucks they need to buy oil. Printing Monopoly 'fiat' money only costs America the paper and green ink, so the USA dollar has been fattened on oil-enriched chicken feed since Tricky Dick delinked the buck from the bullion. The oil bourse scheme could so seriously setback US suzerainty that Saddam got stomped to smithereens. Krassimir Petrov, who teaches international finance in Bulgaria's American University, warns "should the Iranian Oil Bourse gain momentum, it will be eagerly embraced by major economic powers and will precipitate the demise of the dollar." Saddam was just the first wavelet in the coming tsunami. On March 20, 2006, Iran will start selling oil in euros.

Here's what the Bush cabal's Neocon Global Hegemony Manifesto, written in September 2000, has to say:

"At present the United States faces no global rival. America's grand strategy should be to preserve and extend this advantageous position as far into the future as possible. There are, however, potentially powerful states [read Europe, China, India] who are dissatisfied with the current situation and who wish to change it, if they can, in directions that would endanger the relatively peaceful, prosperous and free condition the world [read USA] enjoys today. Up to now, they have been deterred from doing so by the capability and global presence of American military power [read terrorist menace]. But as that power declines, [read currently being defeated in Iraq] relatively and absolutely, the happy conditions that follow from it will be inevitably undermined."

The latest Neocon ramp-up rhetoric for attacking Iran is a dreary fearmongering rerun of the same old lies that launched Bush's disastrous Iraq-attack. The same old WMD drumbeat is now rattling to attack and destroy Ahmadinejad's nascent civilian nuclear program. Bush will fail to get IAEA support to forward his Iran-sanctions feint to the UN Security Council, so there won't be any UN 'coalition of the willing.' Russia and China aren't interested, and Bush's Ambassador to India, David Mulford, has just ruined the nuclear carrot that Bush so carefully waved at India to get them to toe the US line. India has its nukes already, and hooking up the pipeline with Iran is more to their interest. This all makes a preemptive American or Israeli attack all the more likely, and the Neocon's insane desperation is such, that such an attack might just go nuclear.

Bush has stated that "All options are on the table.The use of force is the last option for any president. You know we have used force in the recent past to secure our country." Freaky Dick's office has tasked STRATCOM to draw up a plan which includes a large-scale air assault on Iran using conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Condoleeza Rice says that "time had run out for talking to Tehran." John Bolton says that Bush "has made clear that a nuclear Iran is not acceptable." Newt Gingrich, who won't rule out a run for the presidency in '08, said, "If we don't have a very serious systematic program to replace the government of Iran, we're going to live in an unbelievably dangerous world. This is 1935 and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is as close to Adolf Hitler as we've seen." Israel's Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said that Israel was preparing to protect itself if international diplomatic efforts failed to convince Iran to give up its nuclear program.

When the Neocons conquered the White House in 2000, the U.S. surplus was approximately $5 trillion. That's all gone and the domestic deficit now stands at somewhere around $500 billion. The world's largest debtor nation owes $8,193,150,090,487.56 as of this morning, and the American debt is mushrooming by over a billion a day. Foreigners hold 48 percent of the U.S. Treasury bond market, 24 percent of the U.S. corporate bond market and 20 percent of all U.S. corporations. With "W" walloping US whack like that, why in the world would anyone want dollars?

Here's how the Neocons hoodwinked and swindled the world:

From the Third World Traveler website, Sohan Sharma, Sue Tracy and Surinder Kumar wrote,

"Oil can be bought from OPEC only if you have dollars. Non-oil producing countries, such as most underdeveloped countries and Japan, first have to sell their goods to earn dollars with which they can purchase oil. If they cannot earn enough dollars, then they have to borrow dollars from the WB/IMF, which have to be paid back, with interest, in dollars. This creates a great demand for dollars outside the U.S. In contrast, the U.S. only has to print dollar bills in exchange for goods. Even for its own oil imports, the U.S. can print dollar bills without exporting or selling its goods. For instance, in 2003 the current U.S. account deficit and external debt has been running at more than $500 billion. Put in simple terms, the U.S. will receive $500 billion more in goods and services from other countries than it will provide them. The imported goods are paid by printing dollar bills, i.e., "fiat" dollars."

Here's the Neocons worst nightmare:

China has more than $800 billion reserved in a giant stack of basically green, ink-smeared paper. When Iran starts selling its oil in euros, why wouldn't China just go ahead and convert that stack of paper to euros and use real money to buy oil instead? In January 2002, Canada unloaded nearly 20% of its gold stocks in exchange for euros, thereby bringing its euro holdings to the equivalent of about US$14 billion. That's about 42 percent of the total US$33 billion in foreign deposits and securities held by the government. Just 2 years previous, euros accounted for the equivalent of about US$7 billion of Canada's reserves, only 23 percent of the total. The gold sale reduced Canada's U.S. dollar share to 55 percent from 75 percent. Under Hugo Chavez, Venezuela is brokering barter deals for trading oil with 12 Latin American countries thereby cutting out the USA cut. At the OPEC summit in September 2000, Chavez delivered the report of the "International Seminar on the Future of Energy." One of its key recommendations was that "OPEC take advantage of high-tech electronic barter and bi-lateral exchanges of its oil with its developing country customers." That would be the end of dollar hegemony over OPEC oil transactions.

The War Resisters League calculates that the cost of the US military runs about $643 billion annually. This obscene military expenditure, which supercedes the total of all other combined global military expenditures, is responsible for 80% of the American debt. When the world stops propping up the debt-ridden USA dollar, that will end the Neocon global domination project and the world's worst terrorist menace. This much, "W" clearly understands, and so too, apparently, do his quisling war-mongering Democrat counterparts. The Neocon oil-mens cabal has an even clearer understanding of Peak Oil, and its equally ominous implications for the American economy. This quote from Investment Banker Matthew Simmons—a key advisor to the Bush Administration and Cheney's 2001 Energy Task Force and the Council on Foreign Relations: "What peaking does mean, in energy terms, is that once you've peaked, further growth in supply, is over. Peaking is generally, also, a relatively quick transition to a relatively serious decline at least on a basin by basin basis. And the issue then, is the world's biggest serious question."

In this horrific context, it's not too difficult to understand why the Bush Neocon cabal is preparing to risk all to go on a global oil-stealing spree, and to attack Iran, perhaps even with nukes. It's also easy to understand the cringing wimp-ass non-response of the Democrats. There's no way America can win, and America's got everything to lose. As Gavin R. Putland puts it, "If this oil-currency-war theory is a delusion, the U.S. administration can easily discredit it—by declaring that the USA has no objection if oil exports to the Euro Zone are denominated in euros." The crash of the USA economy will wreak global economic catastrophe. Paradoxically, that crash is this world's only hope for evading global ecological catastrophe. We should support Iran's oil bourse. Bring it on!

http://www.altpr.org/modules.php?op...e=article&sid=589&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
 

Gyaos

BOBA FETT
Aug 17, 2001
6,172
0
0
Heaven, definately Heaven
Cinema Face said:
As for Iran, I can’t see the US doing a full scale invasion as Iran will be a much harder country to occupy than Iraq was, and Iraq isn’t easy. Iran has a larger population, and a much better military. Iran is also a fairly mountainous country whereas, Iraq is mostly flat desert. The US couldn’t roll their heavy tanks in Iran. Instead, I see it being an air strike to knock out their nuke program. I’m not sure what the Iranians will do to retaliate.
It will be better than that. It will be a decisive strike on the Iranian government and there will be no Iranian government thereafter. France's nuke threat is not a bluff. Iran won't be a Bush Jr. war, but a Dick Cheney bench war and George W. Bush Jr. as the cheerleader.

The idea is to knock out Iran, and keep everything inside Iran, just the way it is. Then Isreal will copycat it on Ham-ass. Sometimes, one wants terrorist regimes in charge of government so they can be swiftly wiped clean. That's what their "people" voted for anyway....to be annihilated. Iraq will end up looking like a beach resort in comparrison. That's also why we hear Osama Fagboy crying "Truce! Truce!" He's done soon to be killed or caught. Even Al Jezerra is getting tired of it, they want some commercials and dubbed in English broadcasting.

Bush Jr. this Tuesday "Iran won't go nuke on my watch". It's the 4th quarter of Bush Jr.'s presidency with a Dem majority in the House in Nov 2006, so get ready for the pass. Let's hope we won't require geiger counters and it's done via conventional means.

Gyaos Baltar.

P.S.: Then North Korea surrendering will just be a bonus.
 

arclighter

Guest
Nov 25, 2005
1,527
0
0
WoodPeckr said:
This is all very complex.
The simple answer, we must protect our worker's jobs, they should be viewed as part of US national security just like national defense.


That isn't an answer, it it a statement. How do you propose we "protect our worker's jobs"?
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
Jack Davis sees a way to protect US jobs

arclighter said:
That isn't an answer, it it a statement. How do you propose we "protect our worker's jobs"?
Well here is one way we can begin for starters....;)

Buffalo News headline November 21, 2005

GM to close nine plants 30,000 Jobs To Be Cut

Jack Davis asks today
Will you believe me now?


We are not deaf, dumb or blind. Why can't we comprehend that when we lose our manufacturing industries we weaken our economy and our ability to defend our country.

Domestic production is the economic activity that creates useful products, that is wealth and income, and when taxed, income for the state.

We are importing more and producing less in American-owned factories.

We are closing or selling our irreplaceable wealth-producing companies.

By closing plants and/or transferring production to foreign countries, it creates wealth in that country. When we buy their products our wealth is reduced, that is transferred to that country.

Every dollar of U.S. production is front loaded with the costs of thousands of regulations, fees and taxes that increase the costs of U.S. products by up to 80 percent. Social Security alone adds 15.3 percent to the cost of labor.

When imported products cross American borders tax-free American manufactured products are put at a huge price disadvantage.

The idea of no taxes at borders, i.e. free trade, was originated by an English economist David Ricardo over 100 years ago. It was called The Theory of Comparative Costs; today it's called the Theory of Comparative Advantage.

The theory may have worked one hundred years ago when we were an agricultural society. Ricardo in his wildest dreams could never have imagined multinational corporations with factories in many nations able to transfer hundreds of millions of dollars or choose the country where products will be manufactured with a touch of a keyboard.

Ricardo was even less likely to have envisioned China, a country with a controlled economy, a population of 1.3 billion with a stated mission of wanting to be the world's manufacturer and having that ability.

I am sure Ricardo would be the first to admit the theory of comparative costs would not work under those conditions.

The majority of Americans -- the blue, grey and white-collar workers know free trade is a job killer.

The wealthy, the elite and the elected of both parties kneel blindly at the altar of free trade. What will it take to convince them they are wrong?

The Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans, Germans, French, and Mexican government leaders, and many others don't believe in free trade. Their leaders know manufacturing produces jobs and wealth. They protect their jobs and industries with tariffs and other methods.

All industrialized countries target U.S. industries just like the Japanese targeted our electronic entertainment industry.

Liberals and Conservatives have repeatedly stated that outsourcing is good for Americans and that the economy is improving. I disagree with both.

Over the last 20 years we have accumulated a trade deficit of over 4 trillion dollars. This year it is estimated to be 700 billion dollars, a new record. This is a trade deficit of 2 billion dollars a day.

We have a National debt of over 7 trillion dollars; one-third owed to the Asians. This year the increase in our National debt is estimated at over 333 billion dollars, before Katrina.

Medicare will be broke by 2019 and Social Security insolvent by 2042. There is no Social Security lock box -- it is pay as you go. Fewer industries, fewer jobs, means fewer corporations and fewer workers being taxed. Therefore lower payments into Social Security. Therefore, earlier insolvency.

The largest auto parts manufacturer in the U.S. Delphi filed for bankruptcy, possibly negating contractual obligations of wages, health benefits, and pensions to present and retired employees. There will be other companies doing the same thing.

The U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. that insures retirement benefits to employees of bankrupt corporations is under funded by 450 billion dollars.

Crude oil and natural gas prices have doubled over the last two years.

A good case can be made that our gasoline at $2.68 a gallon was driven by China's booming export economy being fed by U.S. consumers and it was ignited by our free trade policies.

If you stand at a machine or sit at a desk, your job is not safe. If you are retired or considering retirement your Social Security benefits are not guaranteed and are in danger. The Social Security payments depend on U.S. companies paying U.S. wages to U.S. workers.

Many call for an "all-out effort" by labor and management leaders to save jobs and industries. They have failed to understand the real problem.

If everyone in the auto industry from the presidents to floor sweepers were paid our minimum wage of $5.15/hour we still could not compete with the Chinese wages of pennies an hour.

The problem originated in Washington and therefore must be corrected in Washington.

We have lost the electronics industry, i.e. TV, cameras, VCR, DVD's and personal computers. We are losing auto, ceramics, glass, steel, textiles, garments, plastics, toys, furniture, machine tools, die casting, powdered metal industries, and losing all the jobs too. There is not an industry that has not been downsized.

U.S. manufacturing employment is at its lowest level in 55 years and it is not the result of improved efficiencies.

General Motors, Ford and Daimler Chrysler are losing U.S. market share declining from 73 percent to 60 percent in '04. Japanese, Europeans and Koreans all increased their market share. We will soon be importing Chinese autos, priced below ten thousand dollars. This will cause the U.S. auto companies and their suppliers a further decline in their market share.

General Motors plans to increase Chinese parts purchases from 3 billion dollars to 10 billion dollars by 2010. These will replace parts now being made by Americans.

Over the last 50 years, government officials, corporate officers, and small businessmen have made decisions to increase the pay of American workers. This provided the workers with a standard of living unequaled anywhere in the world. The workers were able to own homes, cars and pay for their children's education. They had the security of company funded healthcare and retirement plans.

No American expects American workers to work for Chinese wages of pennies an hour and be housed in military style dormitories.

No American industry front-loaded with the cost of regulations fees and taxes and paying American wage rates can compete with Chinese prices.

The destruction of manufacturing industries will continue unless we stop it. We must do it soon.

What can we do?

First, recognize the problem --

GLOBALIZATION AND FREE TRADE
DOES NOT WORK. IT IS DESTROYING
OUR WEALTH PRODUCING INDUSTRIES.

Free Traders preach protective tariffs would harm our economy. Too many believed this without questioning why. Question it now!

We have had trade deficits for over 20 years with all industrialized nations. They all used tariffs and or other forms of protectionism to protect their jobs and industries.

For centuries, nations have controlled foreign commerce with taxes at the borders called duties or tariffs.

In America from 1789 to 1930, only 75 years ago, tariffs were the main source of revenue for the Federal Government. From 1817 to 1862 tariffs were the only source of revenue.

The U.S. government never abandoned tariffs. In '04 they had tariff revenue of 20.7 billion dollars.

The Free Traders are wrong about tariffs. America needs tariffs. We are destroying our industries and our middle class and on the way to becoming a third world country.

History reveals that earlier super powers -- England, Russia and Rome have fallen from failed policies not from invading armies.

To save the America's industries we must abandon the flawed policies of globalization and free trade. We must cancel NAFTA, CAFTA, and the WTO. Then place trade-balancing tariffs on all products from countries that sell us more products than they buy from us.

Jack Davis is founder (1964) and President of I Squared R Element Company. They manufacture silicon carbide heating elements that are used in high-temperature industrial electric furnaces located in Akron, NY.

Jack is also the chairman of Save American Jobs Association. For more information visit the web site: www.SaveAmericanJobs.us

Jack Davis is available for interviews:
Tel: 716.542.5200
Fax: 716.542.2100

http://www.saveamericanjobs.us/sa-news-pr-051129-buffalonews-fullpagead.shtml
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
And since I mentioned Doonesbury, Gary was Right on today!

WoodPeckr said:
I don't consider them to be 'insulting epigrams'. Think of them as more of a cartoon caption similar to Garry Trudeau's Doonesbury,
Had to post a link to today's Doonesbury, in case you missed it:

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html

...seeing that strip, was almost like a flashback to the Viet Nam Era.......:(


Dubya doesn't recall much about
Nam, since he spent most of it in
a booze & coke induced stupor!!!
 

arclighter

Guest
Nov 25, 2005
1,527
0
0
WoodPeckr said:
Well here is one way we can begin for starters....;)

Buffalo News headline November 21, 2005

GM to close nine plants 30,000 Jobs To Be Cut

Jack Davis asks today
Will you believe me now?


We are not deaf, dumb or blind. Why can't we comprehend that when we lose our manufacturing industries we weaken our economy and our ability to defend our country.

Domestic production is the economic activity that creates useful products, that is wealth and income, and when taxed, income for the state.

We are importing more and producing less in American-owned factories.

We are closing or selling our irreplaceable wealth-producing companies.

By closing plants and/or transferring production to foreign countries, it creates wealth in that country. When we buy their products our wealth is reduced, that is transferred to that country.

Every dollar of U.S. production is front loaded with the costs of thousands of regulations, fees and taxes that increase the costs of U.S. products by up to 80 percent. Social Security alone adds 15.3 percent to the cost of labor.

When imported products cross American borders tax-free American manufactured products are put at a huge price disadvantage.

The idea of no taxes at borders, i.e. free trade, was originated by an English economist David Ricardo over 100 years ago. It was called The Theory of Comparative Costs; today it's called the Theory of Comparative Advantage.

The theory may have worked one hundred years ago when we were an agricultural society. Ricardo in his wildest dreams could never have imagined multinational corporations with factories in many nations able to transfer hundreds of millions of dollars or choose the country where products will be manufactured with a touch of a keyboard.

Ricardo was even less likely to have envisioned China, a country with a controlled economy, a population of 1.3 billion with a stated mission of wanting to be the world's manufacturer and having that ability.

I am sure Ricardo would be the first to admit the theory of comparative costs would not work under those conditions.

The majority of Americans -- the blue, grey and white-collar workers know free trade is a job killer.

The wealthy, the elite and the elected of both parties kneel blindly at the altar of free trade. What will it take to convince them they are wrong?

The Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans, Germans, French, and Mexican government leaders, and many others don't believe in free trade. Their leaders know manufacturing produces jobs and wealth. They protect their jobs and industries with tariffs and other methods.

All industrialized countries target U.S. industries just like the Japanese targeted our electronic entertainment industry.

Liberals and Conservatives have repeatedly stated that outsourcing is good for Americans and that the economy is improving. I disagree with both.

Over the last 20 years we have accumulated a trade deficit of over 4 trillion dollars. This year it is estimated to be 700 billion dollars, a new record. This is a trade deficit of 2 billion dollars a day.

We have a National debt of over 7 trillion dollars; one-third owed to the Asians. This year the increase in our National debt is estimated at over 333 billion dollars, before Katrina.

Medicare will be broke by 2019 and Social Security insolvent by 2042. There is no Social Security lock box -- it is pay as you go. Fewer industries, fewer jobs, means fewer corporations and fewer workers being taxed. Therefore lower payments into Social Security. Therefore, earlier insolvency.

The largest auto parts manufacturer in the U.S. Delphi filed for bankruptcy, possibly negating contractual obligations of wages, health benefits, and pensions to present and retired employees. There will be other companies doing the same thing.

The U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. that insures retirement benefits to employees of bankrupt corporations is under funded by 450 billion dollars.

Crude oil and natural gas prices have doubled over the last two years.

A good case can be made that our gasoline at $2.68 a gallon was driven by China's booming export economy being fed by U.S. consumers and it was ignited by our free trade policies.

If you stand at a machine or sit at a desk, your job is not safe. If you are retired or considering retirement your Social Security benefits are not guaranteed and are in danger. The Social Security payments depend on U.S. companies paying U.S. wages to U.S. workers.

Many call for an "all-out effort" by labor and management leaders to save jobs and industries. They have failed to understand the real problem.

If everyone in the auto industry from the presidents to floor sweepers were paid our minimum wage of $5.15/hour we still could not compete with the Chinese wages of pennies an hour.

The problem originated in Washington and therefore must be corrected in Washington.

We have lost the electronics industry, i.e. TV, cameras, VCR, DVD's and personal computers. We are losing auto, ceramics, glass, steel, textiles, garments, plastics, toys, furniture, machine tools, die casting, powdered metal industries, and losing all the jobs too. There is not an industry that has not been downsized.

U.S. manufacturing employment is at its lowest level in 55 years and it is not the result of improved efficiencies.

General Motors, Ford and Daimler Chrysler are losing U.S. market share declining from 73 percent to 60 percent in '04. Japanese, Europeans and Koreans all increased their market share. We will soon be importing Chinese autos, priced below ten thousand dollars. This will cause the U.S. auto companies and their suppliers a further decline in their market share.

General Motors plans to increase Chinese parts purchases from 3 billion dollars to 10 billion dollars by 2010. These will replace parts now being made by Americans.

Over the last 50 years, government officials, corporate officers, and small businessmen have made decisions to increase the pay of American workers. This provided the workers with a standard of living unequaled anywhere in the world. The workers were able to own homes, cars and pay for their children's education. They had the security of company funded healthcare and retirement plans.

No American expects American workers to work for Chinese wages of pennies an hour and be housed in military style dormitories.

No American industry front-loaded with the cost of regulations fees and taxes and paying American wage rates can compete with Chinese prices.

The destruction of manufacturing industries will continue unless we stop it. We must do it soon.

What can we do?

First, recognize the problem --

GLOBALIZATION AND FREE TRADE
DOES NOT WORK. IT IS DESTROYING
OUR WEALTH PRODUCING INDUSTRIES.

Free Traders preach protective tariffs would harm our economy. Too many believed this without questioning why. Question it now!

We have had trade deficits for over 20 years with all industrialized nations. They all used tariffs and or other forms of protectionism to protect their jobs and industries.

For centuries, nations have controlled foreign commerce with taxes at the borders called duties or tariffs.

In America from 1789 to 1930, only 75 years ago, tariffs were the main source of revenue for the Federal Government. From 1817 to 1862 tariffs were the only source of revenue.

The U.S. government never abandoned tariffs. In '04 they had tariff revenue of 20.7 billion dollars.

The Free Traders are wrong about tariffs. America needs tariffs. We are destroying our industries and our middle class and on the way to becoming a third world country.

History reveals that earlier super powers -- England, Russia and Rome have fallen from failed policies not from invading armies.

To save the America's industries we must abandon the flawed policies of globalization and free trade. We must cancel NAFTA, CAFTA, and the WTO. Then place trade-balancing tariffs on all products from countries that sell us more products than they buy from us.

Jack Davis is founder (1964) and President of I Squared R Element Company. They manufacture silicon carbide heating elements that are used in high-temperature industrial electric furnaces located in Akron, NY.

Jack is also the chairman of Save American Jobs Association. For more information visit the web site: www.SaveAmericanJobs.us

Jack Davis is available for interviews:
Tel: 716.542.5200
Fax: 716.542.2100

http://www.saveamericanjobs.us/sa-news-pr-051129-buffalonews-fullpagead.shtml
As I correctly predicted, your answer is tariffs. Do you have any idea how large these tariffs would have to be? I import auto parts directly from China. I pay an average of $4.00 for a Chinese brake rotor. A North American brake rotor costs an average of $40.00. I pay $28.00 for a Chinese half shaft. An American made half shaft costs $200.00. Chinese ceramic brake pads cost $8.00, while the North American pads average $28.00.

The tariffs required to move production back to the US would absolutely bankrupt our country. I know it is fun to blame Bush for outsourcing, and spout off about protective tariffs, but the reality is that we aren’t even close to being competitive with the Chinese in many industries. If you want to kill our economy overnight, enact protective tariffs against the Chinese.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
46,949
5,746
113
North America
thewoodpecker.net
arclighter said:
... I know it is fun to blame Bush for outsourcing, and spout off about protective tariffs, but the reality is that we aren’t even close to being competitive with the Chinese in many industries. If you want to kill our economy overnight, enact protective tariffs against the Chinese.
As Jack Davis pointed out, "If everyone in the auto industry from the presidents to floor sweepers were paid our minimum wage of $5.15/hour we still could not compete with the Chinese wages of pennies an hour.

The problem originated in Washington and therefore must be corrected in Washington."


We can never compete with China given the present unbalanced playing field.
Unless this is changed by Washington, US workers face two bad outcomes, die either a quick economic death or a slow one. There are plants paying min. wage that are folding because they can't compete with China.

In the not so distant past there was a quaint notion called something like a 'civic moral/ethical responsibility/compact' by govt to protect their citizens and workers for the greater good of all, as US citizens pursued their goal of 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'. Present policy abandons too many of its citizens while granting more rights to corporations only concerned with padding the 'bottom line' above all. Workers are viewed as liabilities and cheap labor nothing more as CEO of Delphi Herr Miller often points out.

If this is the direction the US is heading, as I said earlier, we are going to be needing plenty of new prisons built because the shrinking middle class is not going to be transformed into modern day peasants or neo-serfs very peacefully.

There are signs of this already with increases in crime and robberies here in the Buffalo/WNY region and knowing Detroit and Michigan, I would not be surprised that the same is occurring there along with Florida and other places in the USA.

Letting the 'market' forces settle things sounds nice in theory but fails in the end because all that does is allow the unrestrained powerful interests run roughshod over anyone in their way. These unbridled amoral forces have to be reigned in and watched like hawks by honest govt. agencies they fear, not own. Recent Deaths in West Virginia coal mines, where mine owners were allowed to operate unsafe mines with over 200 safety violations on record, for which mine owners were fined a paltry $50,000 only bears this out. Dubya 'relaxed' mine rules at the behest of mining interests and people died.

The Ken Lay's, Jack Abramoff's, KBR, the Big Oil and natural gas energy interests..... the Culture of Corruption they represent with their 'market manipulation's at will' need to be stopped. What they are engaging in is nothing more than economic terrorism and as such are far more damaging to the USA than what is happening in the ME.


Dubya, TCB Texas Style !!!
 
Toronto Escorts