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R.I.P....Jim Brown

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Insidious Von

Insidious Von

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bluecolt said:
Absolutely unlikely that Burt would have tackled Jim Brown. Burt was born in 1913 and would have been about 50 when Jim Brown started playing.
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Hypothetical question, Burt and Jim Brown were the same size. Lancaster did play football when protective equipment was laughable.

Here's an interesting story, John Wayne was a legit tough guy and a mean drunk. He asked Burt Lancaster to play Liberty Valance, Wayne's logic was that having Lancaster on set would keep him from drinking. Burt rarely drank, during the filming of From Here to Eternity, Frank Sinatra and Montgomery Cliff would go on alcoholic benders - they bought Burt along for protection. It was said that he would fireman carry both actors back to the lot when they were to drunk to stand.

 
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shack

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Insidious Von said:
Hypothetical question, Burt and Jim Brown were the same size. Lancaster did play football when protective equipment was laughable.

Here's an interesting story, John Wayne was a legit tough guy and a mean drunk. He asked Burt Lancaster to play Liberty Valance, Wayne's logic was that having Lancaster on set would keep him from drinking. Burt rarely drank, during the filming of From Here to Eternity, Frank Sinatra and Montgomery Cliff would go on alcoholic benders - they bought Burt along for protection. It was said that he would fireman carry both actors back to the lot when they were to drunk to stand.
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Interesting vignette there IV. I didn't realize that Burt was that big.
 
onomatopoeia

onomatopoeia

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Jim Brown was definitely the greatest football player of his era, but it's a major stretch to call him the greatest athlete ever in team sports. Every player in every sport is at least one level down from Bo Jackson. Bo was not the greatest football player nor the greatest baseball player of all time, but his athleticism was in a class of its own.
 
onomatopoeia

onomatopoeia

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shack said:
It is NOT a stretch to say that he was the greatest football player ever.
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Correct!

Brown played against smaller and slower players with less strength than in the modern era, but he would still have been a handful today. In 1970, five years after Brown retired, the average NFL offensive lineman weighed about 200 pounds.

Former Oklahoma head coach Barry Switzer said that the only player he ever saw who could have gone straight from high school to the NFL and immediately become a star was Earl Campbell.

I'm too young to have seen Jim Brown play, other than in highlight reels, but I personally witnessed many of Bo Jackson's unbelievable feats, and the fact that he did so many of them without extraordinary effort. The dude popped his own dislocated hip joint into place after the injury that ended his NFL career.

 
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shack

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onomatopoeia said:
Correct!

Brown played against smaller and slower players with less strength than in the modern era, but he would still have been a handful today. In 1970, five years after Brown retired, the average NFL offensive lineman weighed about 200 pounds.

Former Oklahoma head coach Barry Switzer said that the only player he ever saw who could have gone straight from high school to the NFL and immediately become a star was Earl Campbell.

I'm too young to have seen Jim Brown play, other than in highlight reels, but I personally witnessed many of Bo Jackson's unbelievable feats, and the fact that he did so many of them without extraordinary effort. The dude popped his own dislocated hip joint into place after the injury that ended his NFL career.
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One can only compare players of different eras in terms of how much they dominated the players of their own eras.

Brown dominated his era more than any other player of their own eras and for almost the entirety of his career.

"He was very difficult to tackle (shown by his all-time record of 5.2 yards per carry), often requiring more than one defender to bring him down."

Nobody denies that Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player of all time even though he probably couldn't handle today's pitchers and would be an out of shape scrub compared to the athleticism displayed by players of today's times.

The dude popped his own dislocated hip joint into place after the injury that ended his NFL career.

That's a silly way to prove that someone is the greatest player of all time.

I guess that Tony Finau is the greatest golfer of all time.

 
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Insidious Von

Insidious Von

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Jim Brown was great in Mars Attacks! After The Dirty Dozen, he should have gotten better roles, unfortunately he was stuck in blaxploitation. Unless your name was Sidney Portier, hypocritical Hollywood didn't take you seriously as an actor.

I would rank Bo Jackson on the same level as Jim Bown, although I never saw Brown play.

 
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onomatopoeia

onomatopoeia

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shack said:
One can only compare players of different eras in terms of how much they dominated the players of their own eras.

I don't agree. We can see film of players from the past to see their size, strength and skill set, and a comparison can be made with the present. Almost every player in the NHL today is a better athlete than the best hockey player from 1920. Wayne Gretzky is considered the greatest hockey player ever, but he'd be on no one's list for greatest ever athlete. The guy was skin and bones.

The dude popped his own dislocated hip joint into place after the injury that ended his NFL career.

That's a silly way to prove that someone is the greatest player of all time.

I guess that Tony Finau is the greatest golfer of all time.
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Bo popped his hip back into place without visible effort. That was a testament of his enormous natural strength.

Bo wasn't a gym rat. He was just created by the Greek gods in their own image.
 
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shack

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Feel free to disagree. It has been widely discussed and generally agreed that improvements in nutrition, training methods, human evolution etc. make comparing athletes from different eras is a matter of comparing apples to oranges.

Hank Aaron had more homers and hits than Ruth and was a better all-round athlete than Ruth, yet Ruth is considered the greatest baseball player of all time. Why? Because Ruth dominated the game in his time to a greater degree than Aaron.

Is Mike Gartner or Michel Goulet or Joe Nieuwendyk or Mark Recchi or Patrick Marleau considered greater all time hockey players than Rocket Richard even though they had more goals and points than Rocket and were bigger, faster and had harder shots than Rocket? No, because none of them dominated the league as much as Rocket.

Ruth set new standards for his era. Rocket set new standards for his era. Jim Brown set new standards for his era.

I'll grant you that Bo may well have been a better athlete, as evidenced by being a two sport star, and he did some amazing things but he did not dominate football or other football players of his time like Jim Brown did and not for nearly as long a time.

NFL Network has Jim Brown as 2nd best all time player and Bo is somewhere outside the top 100.
CBS Sports has Brown as #3 and Bo is outside the top 25
NFL.com has Brown as the all time best running back. Bo did not make the top 12.
ESPN had Brown as greatest running back. Bo did not make their list.
USA Today had Jim Brown at #4 all time fotball player and Bo did not make the top 100

So there is not a single organization that says that Bo was a greater football player than Brown and Bo never made the list anywhere. Why would that be? Why do none of them agree with you? Are you more knowledgeable than them? For sure you're more opinionated, but more knowledgeable? Riiiight.

My initial assertion was that Jim Brown is arguably the greatest football player of all time, but I know that you will stick with your opinion, with nothing to go by other than he could pop his dislocated hip back into place with hardly any effort and he was a gym rat. Hilarious. Hahahaha.

But that's not surprising knowing it's coming from you
 
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onomatopoeia

onomatopoeia

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shack said:
Feel free to disagree. It has been widely discussed and generally agreed that improvements in nutrition, training methods, human evolution etc. make comparing athletes from different eras is a matter of comparing apples to oranges.

Hank Aaron had more homers and hits than Ruth and was a better all-round athlete than Ruth, yet Ruth is considered the greatest baseball player of all time. Why? Because Ruth dominated the game in his time to a greater degree than Aaron.

Is Mike Gartner or Michel Goulet or Joe Nieuwendyk or Mark Recchi or Patrick Marleau considered greater all time hockey players than Rocket Richard even though they had more goals and points than Rocket and were bigger, faster and had harder shots than Rocket? No, because none of them dominated the league as much as Rocket.

Ruth set new standards for his era. Rocket set new standards for his era. Jim Brown set new standards for his era.

I'll grant you that Bo may well have been a better athlete, as evidenced by being a two sport star, and he did some amazing things but he did not dominate football or other football players of his time like Jim Brown did and not for nearly as long a time.

NFL Network has Jim Brown as 2nd best all time player and Bo is somewhere outside the top 100.
CBS Sports has Brown as #3 and Bo is outside the top 25
NFL.com has Brown as the all time best running back. Bo did not make the top 12.
ESPN had Brown as greatest running back. Bo did not make their list.
USA Today had Jim Brown at #4 all time fotball player and Bo did not make the top 100

So there is not a single organization that says that Bo was a greater football player than Brown and Bo never made the list anywhere. Why would that be? Why do none of them agree with you? Are you more knowledgeable than them? For sure you're more opinionated, but more knowledgeable? Riiiight.

My initial assertion was that Jim Brown is arguably the greatest football player of all time, but I know that you will stick with your opinion, with nothing to go by other than he could pop his dislocated hip back into place with hardly any effort and he was a gym rat. Hilarious. Hahahaha.

But that's not surprising knowing it's coming from you
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onomatopoeia said:
Jim Brown was definitely the greatest football player of his era, but it's a major stretch to call him the greatest athlete ever in team sports. Every player in every sport is at least one level down from Bo Jackson. Bo was not the greatest football player nor the greatest baseball player of all time, but his athleticism was in a class of its own.
Click to expand...
onomatopoeia said:
Bo popped his hip back into place without visible effort. That was a testament of his enormous natural strength.

Bo wasn't a gym rat. He was just created by the Greek gods in their own image.
Click to expand...
@shack, I'm talking about athleticism, and you're talking about performance in a particular sport. I would list Usain Bolt as the greatest athlete of the current millenium, but this thread is about team sports.

Former Blue Jay Tom Candiotti is in the bowling Hall of Fame, but no one would argue that a knuckle ball pitcher would be near the top of a greatest athletes table. I'm going to rule out decathletes as well; generally they are better than average in ten different track and field events, but not great in more than one or two. Andy Kaufman was undefeated in his chosen sport of intergender wrestling.

Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest athlete of his generation, one which included Jim Brown. He was more dominant in his sport than Brown was in his; Brown, however, had a better supporting cast. Wilt received about half of his team's total in salary. Wilt played all but about 9 minutes of the 1961-62 season; he was ejected for receiving two technical fouls near the end of one game. He also wouldn't have had only one player guarding him for more more than a handful of his 3,882 minutes played that season.

You both misread and misunderstood why I mentioned Bo popping in his own dislocated hip, and I said Bo wasn't a gym rat.

Not suprising, from the guy who didn't understand a "What's his name?" question in New Sports Trivia:

onomatopoeia said:
nodar1.jpg nodar2.jpg
nodar3.jpg

What's his name?
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shack said:
Nodar Kumaritashvili

I had to look up his name, but I assumed it was the luger who got killed at Whistler.
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shack said:
Maybe you should have asked "What was the name of this luger who got killed at the 2010 Olympics?". Then there would have been no doubt that his name was the only thing that was important.
Click to expand...
 
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dirtydaveiii

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MAGAts insist Tim Tebow is the best in sports ever and the woke NFL got rid of him because he prayed on the sidelines. Tim Tebow therefore won the superbowl every year and they need to go to Canton to fight like he'll to make sure he gets enshrined in the HOF rather that Jim Brown just because he's black.
 
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dirtydaveiii

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onomatopoeia said:
@shack, I'm talking about athleticism, and you're talking about performance in a particular sport. I would list Usain Bolt as the greatest athlete of the current millenium, but this thread is about team sports.

Former Blue Jay Tom Candiotti is in the bowling Hall of Fame, but no one would argue that a knuckle ball pitcher would be near the top of a greatest athletes table. I'm going to rule out decathletes as well; generally they are better than average in ten different track and field events, but not great in more than one or two. Andy Kaufman was undefeated in his chosen sport of intergender wrestling.

Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest athlete of his generation, one which included Jim Brown. He was more dominant in his sport than Brown was in his; Brown, however, had a better supporting cast. Wilt received about half of his team's total in salary. Wilt played all but about 9 minutes of the 1961-62 season; he was ejected for receiving two technical fouls near the end of one game. He also wouldn't have had only one player guarding him for more more than a handful of his 3,882 minutes played that season.

You both misread and misunderstood why I mentioned Bo popping in his own dislocated hip, and I said Bo wasn't a gym rat.

Not suprising, from the guy who didn't understand a "What's his name?" question in New Sports Trivia:
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Didn't wilt have sex with over 10,000 women and die from Aids ?
 
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dirtydaveiii

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You would have to fuck a different women every day for almost 55 years to get to 20,000 - was is magic Johnson that died of aids ?
 
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bluecolt

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onomatopoeia said:
Correct!

Brown played against smaller and slower players with less strength than in the modern era, but he would still have been a handful today. In 1970, five years after Brown retired, the average NFL offensive lineman weighed about 200 pounds.

Former Oklahoma head coach Barry Switzer said that the only player he ever saw who could have gone straight from high school to the NFL and immediately become a star was Earl Campbell.

I'm too young to have seen Jim Brown play, other than in highlight reels, but I personally witnessed many of Bo Jackson's unbelievable feats, and the fact that he did so many of them without extraordinary effort. The dude popped his own dislocated hip joint into place after the injury that ended his NFL career.
Click to expand...
I actually saw Jim Brown play. The players at that time were quite large specimens. I followed the Detroit Lions at that time. In 1970, Errol Mann, the kicker and Altie Taylor, a running back were about 200 lbs. The offensive line, with C Ed Flanagan, 6'3'', 245 lbs, was flanked by Bob Kowakowski, Chuck Walton and Roger Shoals, were all about 245 to 260 lbs. Even defensive linemen such as Alex Karras averaged 6'2", 250 lbs. Linebackers Paul Naumoff, 215 lbs and Mike Lucci, 230 lbs. were also large people. Even TE Charlie Sanders was 6'4" and 225 lbs.
Burt Lancaster and Jim Brown were both about 6'2", but Burt was 190 lbs. He would have been run over by Jim Brown at 230 lbs. Brown's style was to run over and through the opposition. He disliked OJ Simpson, who always ran to the outside and eschewed the interior line. Rocky Bleier had to perform that task.
On other teams, HOF offensive linemen Bob Lilly and Ron Yary were both 6'5" but 260 and 255 lbs respectively.
 
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