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xix

Time Zone Traveller
Jul 27, 2002
3,894
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La la land
Everyone missed this one.

How about go do some volunteer work for your local MP/MPP even if he/she is not the party you like. Get to know the person bring them their favourite Cafe, or what ever they Drink.
 

capncrunch

New member
Apr 1, 2007
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Come on now, is this really true? Do they actually have quotas for minorities?
I'm not sure if there are actual quota numbers, but many, many Federal Gov't jobs are restricted so that only minorities - that is, anyone who isn't a middle-aged white male - can apply. Very, very common, happens all the time. Personally, I was screened out of a number of Fed. jobs because my profile didn't fit the required screening criteria.
Everyone missed this one.

How about go do some volunteer work for your local MP/MPP even if he/she is not the party you like. Get to know the person bring them their favourite Cafe, or what ever they Drink.
Obviously you've never tried to apply for the Federal public service. Doesn't work like that. (Don't know about the Provincial public service, I never worked for them.) They have to apply like anybody else, and any such "pull" that they may enjoy is specifically screened out.
 

Plain_Jane

Bedroom Vixen
With the exception of the pensions (which take a number of years to earn before they are really even worth anything) and benefits that are available in the public sector you have to realize that positions funded from the tax payer's pockets aren't the silver lining to your cloud. What I know from friends and family who work with the government at all levels is that:

-The government is often rigid in terms of hiring practices,
-compensation lags behind what a similar skill set would fetch in the private sector,
-pay is not often based on merit but on terms of a collective agreement so forget incentives and bonuses,
-if you're low in seniority at an advanced age you'll have a very difficult time reaching a point of pensionable earnings that can sustain you
-when the political whim changes so do funding priorities and so jobs can very easily be cut and unless you've got a lot of skills which are very highly transferrable you'll find yourself packaged off with little more than a pat on the back.

If you find that back door you're seeking and it leads to a room lined with gold be sure to leave us a trail of breadcrumbs so we can find our way along too though.....

Best of luck.

xo Jane
 
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Thunderballs

New member
Sep 18, 2002
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Toronto
Too bad someone beat you to the mayor's job. You would have been a shoo-in.
 

Social Gent

Member
Dec 6, 2008
282
0
16
Behind Enemy Lines
The Province of Ontario has altered their hiring in order to curb the "who do you know" type deal. All applications are reviewed at regional hiring centres, before being traded off to local management to interview - so the regional centres arrange your interviews.

The public sector has seen a huge, HUGE increase in overall wages in the last ten years - so the public believes. However, this does not match the rapid decline in public sector wages in comparison to the private sector during the 90's. Therefore, private sector is still making much more than the public sector on average.

Contrary to what they all say, your Hons. degree does help you. A lot.
But remember, gov't hires based on the "point" system. The application and interview are not like a business process, where you just make yourself look good. Everything is graded. What goes on the job posting information is there for a reason. So everything on there, you match in your cover letter and resume. I.E. if it says they are looking for someone with tact and people skills, list how/where you have demonstrated tact and people skills!
The applications with the most check marks get the interview. At the interview, the questions are all point based. Whoever gets the most check marks, gets the job.
 

HOF

New member
Aug 10, 2009
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Relocating February 1, 2012
With the exception of the pensions (which take a number of years to earn before they are really even worth anything) and benefits that are available in the public sector you have to realize that positions funded from the tax payer's pockets aren't the silver lining to your cloud. What I know from friends and family who work with the government at all levels is that:

-The government is often rigid in terms of hiring practices,
-compensation lags behind what a similar skill set would fetch in the private sector,
-pay is not often based on merit but on terms of a collective agreement so forget incentives and bonuses,
-if you're low in seniority at an advanced age you'll have a very difficult time reaching a point of pensionable earnings that can sustain you
-when the political whim changes so do funding priorities and so jobs can very easily be cut and unless you've got a lot of skills which are very highly transferrable you'll find yourself packaged off with little more than a pat on the back.

If you find that back door you're seeking and it leads to a room lined with gold be sure to leave us a trail of breadcrumbs so we can find our way along too though.....

Best of luck.

xo Jane
Did you really think I would let "finding the back door" go unmentioned? LMAO.

I usually sneek outta the back door to go get some back door! LMAO.
 

CapitalGuy

New member
Mar 28, 2004
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At the interview, the questions are all point based. Whoever gets the most check marks, gets the job.
No the Feds have moved away from that. Now the final hiring decision is on "best fit". This allows managers a reasonable degree of flexibility in making the final decision. An applicant is still assessed fairly mechanically during the steps prior to the interview, as you describe, however the manager is not obligated to hire the applicant with the highest score. So long as a candidate is deemed suitable for the job, the manager can pick anyone from the final group of candidates who are found suitable. They must be able to defend the hired person as the "best fit", meaning that when all the various considerations on the statement of merit criteria are taken into consideration, the winner is the one deemed most suitable for the job. If any of the losers complain, all the government has to do is outline why the winner was suitable for the job, not why the loser was rejected. This allows people to screen out someone who gets top marks on any written tests but seems to be not so great on the less tangible assessment criteria. Its still fair to all applicants, but not so restrictive.
 

HOF

New member
Aug 10, 2009
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Relocating February 1, 2012
The Province of Ontario has altered their hiring in order to curb the "who do you know" type deal. All applications are reviewed at regional hiring centres, before being traded off to local management to interview - so the regional centres arrange your interviews. Absolutely correct

The public sector has seen a huge, HUGE increase in overall wages in the last ten years - so the public believes. However, this does not match the rapid decline in public sector wages in comparison to the private sector during the 90's. Therefore, private sector is still making much more than the public sector on average.

Contrary to what they all say, your Hons. degree does help you. A lot.
But remember, gov't hires based on the "point" system. The application and interview are not like a business process, where you just make yourself look good. Everything is graded. What goes on the job posting information is there for a reason. So everything on there, you match in your cover letter and resume. I.E. if it says they are looking for someone with tact and people skills, list how/where you have demonstrated tact and people skills!
The applications with the most check marks get the interview. At the interview, the questions are all point based. Whoever gets the most check marks, gets the job.
Yes, everything is graded, and it's crucial to customize your resume for each position. Another point is not always does the best candidate get hired why because it's graded on points and many suffer interview anxiety (human condition). Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a perfect system anywhere on how to hire. OP remember many of the positions are contracts.

It's a good time to be searching Ontario Public Service careers in the next 5 years 28% are eligible to retire. Woohoo! in the next 10 years 57% are eligible to retire.

http://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/jobs.aspx
"Note: We thank you for your interest; however, we will contact you only if we choose you for further screening or an interview.
The Ontario Public Service is an equal opportunity employer.
We will accommodate your needs under the Ontario Human Rights Code.
Every competition in OPS has this statement

We could debate hiring practises, required education and experience at great length, but that can get frustrating.

The OP should browse all Provincial and the Federal boards. Here's a hint, if you're not glued to Ontario get some thermal clothing, winter tires and become a Roughriders fan real quick. If all else fails, get an elementary school teaching certificate with the Hons. BA in ? (I apologize for being a smartass) Yes, I'm university educated so that doesn't say alot as my detractors would say. LOL.

Public service isn't the greatest career path, remember you get shite from everyone. It's kinda like middle-management in the private sector.


Good luck in your search.
 

CapitalGuy

New member
Mar 28, 2004
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Public service isn't the greatest career path, remember you get shite from everyone. It's kinda like middle-management in the private sector..
Yes it can be a bit stupefying, depending on what you do for a living. You won't get rich working for the government, but you won't get fired either. Job security has an amazingly calming effect on one's psyche!!! If you are working in industry in a non-incentivized job, say a standard issue middle manager, and aren't on the executive track within your company, you can likely have a similar or better career in government - same general working conditions (office wanker) with better job security. If you are a hyper-successful MBA type who is doing really well in the private sector (say $150K and up), forget the government. Executives in the public service work just as hard as executive in the private sector, but for a pittance, and absolute pittance. They are suckers. Best is to peak at one or maybe two pay grades below EX. You will earn six figures or just under, but have a life outside of work.

Blue collar guys can make much better money in industry but working conditions and long-term stability in government is much better.
 

HOF

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Aug 10, 2009
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Relocating February 1, 2012
Yes it can be a bit stupefying, depending on what you do for a living. You won't get rich working for the government, but you won't get fired either. Job security has an amazingly calming effect on one's psyche!!! If you are working in industry in a non-incentivized job, say a standard issue middle manager, and aren't on the executive track within your company, you can likely have a similar or better career in government - same general working conditions (office wanker) with better job security. If you are a hyper-successful MBA type who is doing really well in the private sector (say $150K and up), forget the government. Executives in the public service work just as hard as executive in the private sector, but for a pittance, and absolute pittance. They are suckers. Best is to peak at one or maybe two pay grades below EX. You will earn six figures or just under, but have a life outside of work.

Blue collar guys can make much better money in industry but working conditions and long-term stability in government is much better.
Just a point about FPS or OPS, you can be fired. It is up to the management to keep proper documentation. What happens to a FPS or OPS employee can be a long drawn out process letters, supervision, suspension, demotion and termination. In 22.5 years, I've seen it done to superintendents, senior management, middle management, and numerous members of the frontlines of government services. It's a paycheque, but really not one that you can live the life of Rielly on. You can live better than comfortable if you manage money well in the household, have good personal financial advisors, good accountant or tax group, and make smart moves. Often renovation can be keep a huge amount of $ in your book as an observation.

It just baffles me the public services makes this, gets this, does this. There is always dead wood in every industry, fortunately I moved up relatively quickly. Well, when you see what comes off of those bi-monthly statements you go shite, but then decide to work overtime to recoup loses and loses for stats. 3.5 more years and then I'm going to margaritaville!
 

mmouse

Posts: 10,000000
Feb 4, 2003
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Personally, I was screened out of a number of Fed. jobs because my profile didn't fit the required screening criteria.
Do you know for a fact that you were screened out because of your ethnicity or age? And how do you know?
 

capncrunch

New member
Apr 1, 2007
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Do you know for a fact that you were screened out because of your ethnicity or age? And how do you know?
I spoke to the recruiter who told me right to my face that I would not be considered because I did not fit the ethnic or gender profile required.
 

night ride

Active member
Jul 23, 2009
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I've heard so much complaining by civil servants about their job - those I know personally and otherwise.
While they're relatively well-off they are often a miserable lot. The negatively spreads from one person to another and the danger is that you'll become miserable after listening to it for a while.
 

desert monk

Active member
Apr 22, 2009
442
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I've heard so much complaining by civil servants about their job - those I know personally and otherwise.
While they're relatively well-off they are often a miserable lot. The negatively spreads from one person to another and the danger is that you'll become miserable after listening to it for a while.
This is very true of one guy I know... he's been working in the public service a good 10-15 years. I forgot about him until now. I don't know if he is on my side though, as I banged his step-daughter after meeting her in a 12-step meeting. He was rather cool with me the last time we saw each other.
 

mmouse

Posts: 10,000000
Feb 4, 2003
1,838
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I spoke to the recruiter who told me right to my face that I would not be considered because I did not fit the ethnic or gender profile required.
Interesting indeed. I am surprised this is legal.

On the other hand, I am fairly sure I have experienced unfair advantage in private sector hiring. I am male and white. In most of my jobs I am hired by white males and work with mostly white coworkers. From time to time I see other applicants resumes and there are plenty of non-whites who blow me away, at least on paper.
 

GotGusto

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Jan 18, 2009
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So you want to be a soldier for the government. While sending the rest of us to the Gulag, you and your cronies will ride high. I'm glad we established where each of us stand.
 

t.o.leafs.fan

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2006
1,361
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Stick with the 100K in the private sector. The odds of you making or working your way up to that level of salary in the public sector in the short or medium term are slim to none. To the person who suggested teaching, he'd be starting at around 40K.
 

HOCKEY_GOD

Banned
Oct 13, 2009
467
0
0
THE OCEAN
I've heard so much complaining by civil servants about their job - those I know personally and otherwise.
While they're relatively well-off they are often a miserable lot. The negatively spreads from one person to another and the danger is that you'll become miserable after listening to it for a while.
I know for a fact that at the City of Toronto it is all about who you're related to and that's simply the culture. Wonder if Ford will ever address that issue head on... I've heard many good things about the Province after they implemented the reforms as referenced earlier in this thread.
 
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