Provider References

[mandrill]

Really? lol Are you for real?
Care to share your personal experience as an SP and tell us how the use of references has never saved you, not even once, from a potential bad date? I'd love to hear all about it and how you managed to keep yourself save over the days/weeks/months/years.

Since it seems you're an experienced SP, I'm sure you know that asking for a reference is only part of the entire screening process, right? You must know that a lot more goes into screening a potential client, correct?

I'd also love to know where you got your information about the set up of future stings

Fuji is not an SP, but is a client with strong and sometimes debatable opinions. His scenario sounds far fetched and I doubt that references would be used by the police to set up further stings.

I have heard of only one example where LE has booked a call with a lady posing as a (fake) client. As the lady was smart enough to know that she had done nothing illegal under the current law, she turned the officers away - although they persisted in being a nuisance and talking at her in her doorway for several minutes, telling her that they were there to "protect" her. She ended up losing her evening of clients as she had to cancel because the cops were hanging around. It was the men who were in legal jeopardy, not the lady.

AFAIK, this is a one off incident and LE is not making a practice of this. So I am not convinced that screening assists a lady in any real way in weeding out cops or that this is a genuine problem.

Personally I find references a nuisance. Although I hobby frequently, I see agency girls and repeat multiple times with the same 2 or 3 current favourites. I am usually not in a position to supply references and regard being asked for them as annoying. I have been a member of TERB for 15 years.

I can see how they might be useful to weed out no-shows, smellies and oafs and I would guess that the first category is likely the biggest problem, especially for girls from Montreal who have limited time in TO and overhead to pay.

OTOH, I would not be comfortable asking 1 of my regulars to supply a reference for another woman. It seems insulting to her. After all, she probably regards me as "her" client. There is a difference between a guy who sees 40 different girls every year and is clearly shopping around as much as possible and guys who see a half-dozen or less and repeats a lot. In the latter case, I suspect most women would actively resent being asked to "recommend" that client to another woman. It means losing a regular source of income and giving it away to another woman who might keep it permanently. And that leaves aside the issues of female competition and insecurity.

It puts the client in a difficult situation being asked to do this.

As well, my perception is that clients are a mixed bag. Is a girl really going to tell another girl that Guy A is an okay guy, but has a foot fetish? Or that he has a weird looking dick? Or that he talks about his stamp collection until the girl dies from boredom? Or that he gets frustrated and grumpy if he can't get off easily?

Imagine if the second girl mentions the conversation to the client?! "Oh btw, Candyce says that you take a long time to get hard, but you seem fine today." Is the guy going to trust Candyce and go see her ever again? Probably not.

 

[Gabriella Laurence]

Fuji is not an SP, but is a client...

I know and it was my point. Unless someone has hands-on experience as an SP and fully understands the screening process and how references benefit us, in one way or another, one should refrain from making assumptions and spreading it as truth and/or fact.

OTOH, I would not be comfortable asking 1 of my regulars to supply a reference for another woman. It seems insulting to her. After all, she probably regards me as "her" client. There is a difference between a guy who sees 40 different girls every year and is clearly shopping around as much as possible and guys who see a half-dozen or less and repeats a lot. In the latter case, I suspect most women would actively resent being asked to "recommend" that client to another woman. It means losing a regular source of income and giving it away to another woman who might keep it permanently. And that leaves aside the issues of female competition and insecurity.

It puts the client in a difficult situation being asked to do this.

Most professional SPs understand that no one client "belongs to her" no matter how often a client might see her. There is no place for jealousy or possessiveness (and the likes) in the types of relationships we engage in in this lifestyle.

Furthermore, I encourage my regular patrons to see other ladies and prefer it when they do. It tends to keep our established ongoing relationship in perspective that way. It's also a pleasure for me to provide a reference for an inquiring SP.

As well, my perception is that clients are a mixed bag. Is a girl really going to tell another girl that Guy A is an okay guy, but has a foot fetish? Or that he has a weird looking dick? Or that he talks about his stamp collection until the girl dies from boredom? Or that he gets frustrated and grumpy if he can't get off easily?

References between SPs don't really work like that

 

[mandrill]

Most professional SPs understand that no one client "belongs to her" no matter how often a client might see her. There is no place for jealousy or possessiveness (and the likes) in the types of relationships we engage in in this lifestyle. Furthermore, I encourage my regular patrons to see other ladies and prefer it when they do. It tends to keep our established ongoing relationship in perspective that way. It's also a pleasure for me to provide a reference for an inquiring SP.....

References between SPs don't really work like that

Well, it might help the guys if you explain how references work between the ladies and what topics are considered important, etc.

 

[Luton]

Well, it might help the guys if you explain how references work between the ladies and what topics are considered important, etc.

I am the wrong person to ask this question. I never had a problem giving my handle and other details. I do know sps can deal with some scary people and I can understand the need for screening.

 

[asuran]

I am the wrong person to ask this question. I never had a problem giving my handle and other details. I do know sps can deal with some scary people and I can understand the need for screening.

I also have no problem giving references.

Every one has a different way of doing things. If it works for them and makes them feel more secure with a peace of mind than it is absolutely necessary.
On the opposite end, if someone like Occasionally feels more secure and a piece of mind by not giving out references than that is his right as well.
He just did not meet the requirements of certain SPs, he should see someone else.

Him complaining about references is like someone complaining why he can't get into a certain college/university program without the proper papers/grades. Nothing more to say than you do not meet the requirements, please apply to a different one.
Or
Someone getting carded at a bar/restaurant when ordering alcohol. Does he get his drink if he does not have a valid ID? Order something else like, a milk or apple juice if you can't proof yourself.

Next.

 

[Luton]

I also have no problem giving references.

Every one has a different way of doing things. If it works for them and makes them feel more secure with a peace of mind than it is absolutely necessary.
On the opposite end, if someone like Occasionally feels more secure and a piece of mind by not giving out references than that is his right as well.
He just did not meet the requirements of certain SPs, he should see someone else.

Him complaining about references is like someone complaining why he can't get into a certain college/university program without the proper papers/grades. Nothing more to say than you do not meet the requirements, please apply to a different one.
Or
Someone getting carded at a bar/restaurant when ordering alcohol. Does he get his drink if he does not have a valid ID? Order something else like, a milk or apple juice if you can't proof yourself.

Next.

Very well said Asuran.

 

[DaleyDDD]

Not sure how others do this. I'm sure we all do it differently. But basically just vouched and said he was a good guy I've known for over a year and a half in which he's been nothing but respectful. I may have mentioned his race too. You know who you are ;p

Well, it might help the guys if you explain how references work between the ladies and what topics are considered important, etc.

 

[Luton]

Not sure how others do this. I'm sure we all do it differently. But basically just vouched and said he was a good guy I've known for over a year and a half in which he's been nothing but respectful. I may have mentioned his race too. You know who you are ;p

Daley you sound like a very nice person, just saying.

 

[fuji]

Really? lol Are you for real?
Care to share your personal experience as an SP and tell us how the use of references has never saved you, not even once, from a potential bad date? I'd love to hear all about it and how you managed to keep yourself save over the days/weeks/months/years.

Since it seems you're an experienced SP, I'm sure you know that asking for a reference is only part of the entire screening process, right? You must know that a lot more goes into screening a potential client, correct?

I'd also love to know where you got your information about the set up of future stings

You really have no answer to the point that someone interested in violence or robbery can easily get a reference by booking one normal session.

I reject your empty claim that only an SP can think about this. You are asking for references, it is on you to explain how the huge risk you are creating for clients is justified, and I just sunk that ship.

As for hypothetical future stings, reread the part that said if the police choose to put resources into it. You were the one who speculated that references would be needed in future due to increased police activity. I simply pointed out that references wouldn't deter a sting in that world, SVC explained in detail why not. I am not saying they are planning to do that, just that in the hypothetical that they did decide to go after the high end of the business references would HELP them catch clients.

If you want to argue that references weed out no shows just admit that is the goal, that it is an economic benefit, not a safety issue. A no show costs money but clearly isn't a safety risk.

 

[Hiding]

Well, it might help the guys if you explain how references work between the ladies and what topics are considered important, etc.

I'll bite, given that I'm asked for references (and ask for them) all the time. It's usually "do you know person A?" > "yes, great guy, have fun!". There's no cattiness or jealousy; conversely, it's a quick way of verifying someone is safe and worth taking the time to answer. We deal with a lot, and generally working together is in our greater interest. I've never had to give a bad reference or had a request go unanswered.

Fuji: it's a safety thing, it's an economic thing, and it's a comfort thing. You're asking a woman to be alone with a stranger in a vulnerable, intimate setting. If it's an incall, you're also asking her to invest in either a hotel room or a location for you to meet. If it's an outcall, you're asking her to get naked in a foreign place.

References are one way of many to verify a client. A long posting history, a social media presence, a quick workplace check, etc are other ways. Sure, a terrible person could book one non-violent appointment and get a good reference, but you're talking about a rare occasion - sociopathic level. If I screened for that, I would never see anyone until they passed a battery of psychological tests!

I want to know: are you who you say you are, will you be there, and are we going to have fun. If a reference does that quickly, great! If you're not comfortable, let's do it another way. Doesn't work? There are other companions and as much as I'd love to meet you, I can probably fill that slot.

 

[Titalian]

I normally just give out my handle, all the provider has to do is look up who I've reviewed in the recent past and get in contact with them. I'm comfortable with that.

 

[mandrill]

I'll bite, given that I'm asked for references (and ask for them) all the time. It's usually "do you know person A?" > "yes, great guy, have fun!". There's no cattiness or jealousy; conversely, it's a quick way of verifying someone is safe and worth taking the time to answer. We deal with a lot, and generally working together is in our greater interest. I've never had to give a bad reference or had a request go unanswered.

Fuji: it's a safety thing, it's an economic thing, and it's a comfort thing. You're asking a woman to be alone with a stranger in a vulnerable, intimate setting. If it's an incall, you're also asking her to invest in either a hotel room or a location for you to meet. If it's an outcall, you're asking her to get naked in a foreign place.

References are one way of many to verify a client. A long posting history, a social media presence, a quick workplace check, etc are other ways. Sure, a terrible person could book one non-violent appointment and get a good reference, but you're talking about a rare occasion - sociopathic level. If I screened for that, I would never see anyone until they passed a battery of psychological tests!

I want to know: are you who you say you are, will you be there, and are we going to have fun. If a reference does that quickly, great! If you're not comfortable, let's do it another way. Doesn't work? There are other companions and as much as I'd love to meet you, I can probably fill that slot.

OK, thanks for that info. It's always good for us guys to know.

But of course, it raises the question of how ladies deal with guys who are problematic and how difficult a client someone has to be before girls bother to bring up that topic.

 

[Gabriella Laurence]

First let me say thank you to the other two ladies for posting

You really have no answer to the point that someone interested in violence or robbery can easily get a reference by booking one normal session.

I reject your empty claim that only an SP can think about this. You are asking for references, it is on you to explain how the huge risk you are creating for clients is justified, and I just sunk that ship.

As for hypothetical future stings, reread the part that said if the police choose to put resources into it. You were the one who speculated that references would be needed in future due to increased police activity. I simply pointed out that references wouldn't deter a sting in that world, SVC explained in detail why not. I am not saying they are planning to do that, just that in the hypothetical that they did decide to go after the high end of the business references would HELP them catch clients.

If you want to argue that references weed out no shows just admit that is the goal, that it is an economic benefit, not a safety issue. A no show costs money but clearly isn't a safety risk.

It is pretty condescending of you, the client of SPs, to tell us, the SPs, how references serve no other purposes than to avoid a financial loss when you have NO idea how references have really saved us from seeing a bad client--->because you have never been an SP. It's also pretty mind blowing to see that you seem to know better than us, the SPs.

References are not 100% full proof and/or a guarantee of a "perfect date" but that, on top of additional screening methods are better than nothing at all to help keep us safe.

An example for you:
One day, I received an introduction email from a potential client. He sounded ok and provided me with a reference with a caveat: "I've met with Miss xyz twice but our chemistry wasn't the greatest so I'm not sure if she will vouch for me or not". I contacted the lady (after verifying that her name, website and email address all corresponded. I always check because I want to avoid guys playing games and trying to give themselves a false reference with a fake email--yes, it happens), and she tells me that this person was fine for the first meeting but the second time around, he removed the condom, without her knowledge and tried to have BB sex with her while in doggy. She then tells me the reference she got before seeing him also mentioned the same thing but she, unfortunately, gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Long story short, I declined his request for a rendez-vous. Why? For my own safety and well being. Obviously, that guy has a serious problem when it comes to respect and consent and has the potential to be a dangerous encounter.

If you fail to see how that reference saved me from a potential dangerous encounter, I don't know what will. I could also provide you with other examples but I do not believe it would make any difference. You either "get it" or you don't.

Gabriella, you don't realize Fuji is never wrong (at least not in his mind). I can't wait to see his response since yours was right on the money IMHO.

Maybe next time I'll do a little research before quoting someone and taking the time to reply.

BTW, have you seen "Fear the walking dead" yet? I heard it's a pretty good show

 

[mammo]

I'll bite, given that I'm asked for references (and ask for them) all the time. It's usually "do you know person A?" > "yes, great guy, have fun!". There's no cattiness or jealousy; conversely, it's a quick way of verifying someone is safe and worth taking the time to answer. We deal with a lot, and generally working together is in our greater interest. I've never had to give a bad reference or had a request go unanswered.

Fuji: it's a safety thing, it's an economic thing, and it's a comfort thing. You're asking a woman to be alone with a stranger in a vulnerable, intimate setting. If it's an incall, you're also asking her to invest in either a hotel room or a location for you to meet. If it's an outcall, you're asking her to get naked in a foreign place.

References are one way of many to verify a client. A long posting history, a social media presence, a quick workplace check, etc are other ways. Sure, a terrible person could book one non-violent appointment and get a good reference, but you're talking about a rare occasion - sociopathic level. If I screened for that, I would never see anyone until they passed a battery of psychological tests!

I want to know: are you who you say you are, will you be there, and are we going to have fun. If a reference does that quickly, great! If you're not comfortable, let's do it another way. Doesn't work? There are other companions and as much as I'd love to meet you, I can probably fill that slot.

+1 :thumb:

 

[Marla]

Bill C-36 HAS been in effect for 9 months and it only criminalizes GUYS. You appear to be confused.

It hasn't affected normal Johns and if it did, then references would be the norm.

 

[canada-man]

It hasn't affected normal Johns

you sure?

 

[Sugar-D]

I understand the purpose of providers asking for references. However do they contact the other provider and what are the chances they would even remember specific customers ?

I usually go to MP's so do not have recent sp references

Tell the lady in question your issue.
If she will see you, then go for it.
If she won't see you, then move on.

 

[trm]

I have had one experience with an SP asking for references. She was one that I really wanted to see based on numerous good reviews. I asked an SP I had been several times for permission to use her as a reference. I assured her that I would continue to see her and I have. The new SP turned into a favorite and I am seeing both of them. I asked the new SP what the other had said about me. She said I got a good review. It was no hassle and no big deal. Security and safety are important for SP's and I understand why some want references.

If you as a client want a reference for an SP read the reviews on this board. That's what they are for. If you cannot find a good review of and SP look for one that does have multiple good reviews and the odds are you will have a good experience.

 

[wangbang]

Totally appreciate why SPs might prefer references. However I too am entitled to preferences and always regret when I see that an attractive candidate is requiring them, because (so long as alernatives are available) I will choose to go elsewhere.

My feelings exactly. Even after the whole Ashley Madison mess guys will still expose themselves because pussy makes some guys stupid.

Unless an SP I've seen is keeping all her text messages and has a great memory I can't see how the reference thing is going to work. The couple of girls that do know me well enough to provide references, well, I like them enough that I would never make them feel like I would rather see someone else over them.

 

[fuji]

It is pretty condescending of you, the client of SPs, to tell us, the SPs, how references serve no other purposes than to avoid a financial loss when you have NO idea how references have really saved us from seeing a bad client-

Sorry, but that is a cop out. You want to play this card because you have no actual valid reason for your claim.

Your reference system creates HUGE personal risk for clients so don't you, the SP, dare say that it isn't a clients place to comment on the fact that the claimed justification is stuff and nonsense.

Clients here have a right to hear that it is purely an economic benefit try SP's, that reduces no shows, so that they can make an informed decision as to whether they want to take on personal risk for your financial gain.

Clearly there are many who are willing, but it is unreasonable in the extreme for you to try and shut down the discussion with this "only an SP can comment" BS.

You either can explain the benefits in clear and understandable terms or you cannot.

-->because you have never been an SP. It's also pretty mind blowing to see that you seem to know better than us, the SPs.

Once you have finished blowing your mind see if you can respond. This is a serious topic with serious consequences for everyone. It needs to be discussed openly and bluntly and without any bullshit about who is or isn't allowed to comment. We are all impacted.

References are not 100% full proof and/or a guarantee of a "perfect date" but that, on top of additional screening methods are better than nothing at all to help keep us safe.

First you admit that the reference system is full of holes then you try and save it with this classic, hysterical "but any extra step helps".

So let's talk about the specific cases your reference system would catch: no shows, people who are oblivious to their lack of hygiene, people who are oblivious to their lack of personality or their abrasive personality.

That is who you will screen out.

Here is who you will not screen out: anyone intent on robbing you, anyone intent on abusing you, anyone who is conscious that what they want to do is unacceptable. All these people will easily find a reference that will satisfy your check because they KNOW what they are doing isn't acceptable.

You are only going to screen out people who are unaware that they are unpleasant, and no shows.

As for your no condom guy let's be clear that after you declined him he can do this: go see another SP and behave well, using a new phone number. Then rebook you, pass your reference check, and then what?

As an SP you already know that you need to physically check for the presence of a condom when you change positions. You cannot rely on references for that!!

If you aren't physically checking then odds are that bad client has already easily gotten past your pointless reference check and you don't even know.