Post-dated cheques

[King Midas]

I rent a home downtown.

I gave my landlord 12 post-dated cheques, dated mid-month, as stipulated in the lease.

For the second time, my landlord has "accidentally" deposited my rent cheque on the first of the fucking month, even though they are all dated the 15th of each month.

I have overdraft protection, but it wasn't enough to cover the rent and the cheques I wrote to cover my kid's tuition and camp fees. Even though I have $10K sitting in a savings account, the bank charged me $40 each for the cheques and the school and the camp charged me $25 each as well. I'm out $130 because the ass can't read the date on a cheque! It cost me $65 last time too.

Called the bank and they told me the date on a cheque means nothing to them. That, essentially, it's an agreement between myself and whoever I made the cheque out to. They will not waive the fees.

Landlord refuses to [1] refund me the bank fees (told me to take it up with the bank) or [2] return the post-dated cheques.

Where should I go next? Landlord and Tenant Board or Small Claims Court?? I want my $195. I am beyond pissed with this idiot. If he won't return my cheques I am thinking I'll cancel them -but, no doubt, that will cost me more in fees. FUCK!

 

[university kid]

go to the bank. speak with a manager, they cannot cash cheques until the date specified or after. post dated cheques aren't for courtesy, there is a date for a reason, speak to the branch manager and you will be refunded.

 

[justchecking]

Did you lease the unit thru MLS/real estate agent? If it is, then you should talk to him or her for an advice about this problem.

 

[King Midas]

go to the bank. speak with a manager, they cannot cash cheques until the date specified or after. post dated cheques aren't for courtesy, there is a date for a reason, speak to the branch manager and you will be refunded.

I spoke with my bank manager last time this happened, about 8 months ago, and he told me the date means nothing, unless it's "stale-dated". He simply tried to sell me products - more overdraft, LOC, etc.

Just got off the phone with CIBC Helpline and they gave me the party line: the date is agreement between me and the landlord -- he could deposit all ten remaining cheques and deposit them and the bank would process them. The bank doesn't give a shit.

 

[rafterman]

Well under that logic you might as well not even have a date on the cheque, the payee can deposit them the moment they have them in hand regardless.
Suppose your savings was in your chequing account and all ten cheques clear your account. You've just prepaid your rent for the rest of the year.

When I worked in financial services we regularly returned cheques reason postdated i.e. the cheque was deposited before it was payable and was charged back to the payee.

I believe now the reality is that they simply don't look at cheques at all under a certain floor amount i.e. maybe 5K. they don't look for body & figure difference or verify signatures at all.

Having said that there are standard CBA (Canadian Banking Association) rules about negotiating cheques and I don't think your Bank adhered to them.

Your next option is to write the branch manager and ask him to refund the fees. If you don't get satisfaction tell him you want to speak to his regional manager. Then repeat if necessary. Your ultimate recourse is to the Bank's Ombudsman who acts as a final arbiter of customer complaints. You can threaten that action to gain leverage before you actually take that step.

I'm surprised your bank hasn't reversed the fees in the interests of good customer service although I do empathize with the fact that your landlord seems to be an ass. He should buy a dated accordian folder and store his post dates by date. That's his job.

Good Luck David (as in D vs. Goliath)

 

[a 1 player]

Go to the branch manager and tell him that you are going to close all your accounts unless this is resolved to your satisfaction, and that you will not even consider them for the mortgage on the house you are looking at. Make damn sure that that he knows the district manager will be notified as to why you are making your decision.

 

[WhaWhaWha]

Time for a midnight move. Then stop payment on all of them and like the ING guy says, "save your money".

 

[GDLLover]

Two of the top banks CIBC and Royal seem to be just screwing people, I pulled out of Royal and went with TD. No regrets, no problems with TD in the last 12 years. Customer service and satisfaction seem to be their priority. Also I found out that their completely seemless for branches, so you can do anything from any branch.

No I don't work at TD, just no negatives so far.

GDL

 

[My Johnson]

Give this to the Bank

The Bank Manager does not know his Job.

Print this and let him read it.


http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/BankInsurance/Cheques/ChequesInfo-5-eng.asp


Post-dated cheques

The Canadian Payments Association (CPA) is the organization that develops rules for Canada's cheque-clearing and settlement system. CPA has developed a rule, called A1: General Rules Pertaining to Items Acceptable for Exchange, for the Purposes of Clearing and Settlement, which states that any bank that is a member of CPA cannot cash your cheque before the date indicated on it.

If your bank or trust company does cash your cheque before this date, CPA has another rule, called A4, Returned and Redirected Items, which allows for your financial institution to return the cheque and put the money back into your account. You can only ask your bank or trust company to do this up to the day before the cheque should have been cashed.

If you have not resolved your problem with a post-dated cheque at the branch level or if the cheque has resulted in non-sufficient funds fees being charged to you, you can make a complaint using your financial institution's complaint-handling process. Federal financial consumer protection legislation requires all federally regulated financial institutions to have a complaint-handling process in place to help resolve disputes between consumers and their financial institutions. This process includes a third-party dispute-resolution body.

FCAC publishes the complaint-handling process for all federally regulated financial institutions on its Web site.

Making a Complaint
Man on cellular phone Click here to find the complaint-handling process for your financial institution

All banks, retail associations and federal trust, loan and insurance companies must, by law, have a complaint-handling process in place for consumers.

If you have a complaint or a problem with a federally regulated financial institution, you can take the following steps to resolve it.

Step 1: Local level

First, you should try to resolve the problem directly with the manager or customer service representative of your financial institution. This would involve dealing with branch staff or the branch's local representative.

Step 2: Senior level or internal ombudsman

If your complaint cannot be resolved at the branch or local level, it may be referred to a senior staff member or an internal ombudsman.

Step 3: Third-party review

In most cases, if your complaint has not been resolved to your satisfaction, you can have it reviewed by a third party. This service is non-binding and is available to any individual or small business with a complaint.

* For banks and trust companies, you may contact the Ombudsman for Banking Services and Investments (OBSI).

* For concerns and complaints about life and health products and services issued by life insurance companies, contact the Canadian Life and Health Insurance OmbudService (CLHIO).

* For problems concerning home, car and business insurance, you can contact the General Insurance OmbudService (GIO).


Provincial regulator

In some cases, depending on the type of financial institution you deal with, you may also contact your provincial regulator. For a list of the regulators in your province, please visit the Other Regulators section of our Web site or call us toll-free at: 1-866-461-3222.

FCAC

Part of FCAC's role is to ensure that financial institutions have a complaint-handling process in place. If you are having difficulty finding out about your institution's complaint-handling process or if you are experiencing delays when using it, call us toll-free at the number above. However, please keep in mind that FCAC does not provide redress or compensation and that we cannot get involved in individual disputes.

 

[oldjones]

My Johnson, it really is a breath of fresh air here to see someone just do the basic research and post the actual rules. Beats all ususal the bullshit and bluster about 'how it should be'. Thank you.

 

[angrymime666]

as per the landlord tenant act the tenant does not have to provide post dated checks unless agreed so by the tenant.

the bank should recoup your cost or you, since essentially they cashed the cheque prior to the date to be cashed. its the responsibility of the CSR to properly assess the check.

worse case scenario you can go to the tribunal and for the landlord to cover the nsf fees or any interest involved.

 

[blackrock13]

go to the bank. speak with a manager, they cannot cash cheques until the date specified or after. post dated cheques aren't for courtesy, there is a date for a reason, speak to the branch manager and you will be refunded.

.

Absolutely right. It's the banks fault. You won't be out any money and only some of your time.

 

[train]

My Johnson, it really is a breath of fresh air here to see someone just do the basic research and post the actual rules. Beats all ususal the bullshit and bluster about 'how it should be'. Thank you.

Shockingly, I agree with you.

 

[blackrock13]

Nice cut and paste but the bottom line is the bank was wrong. Your a good customer and not a whiner, you're in your right to ask the branch or even higher up to send you and your landlord a letter, explaining what happened and putting you in a bad light. that kind of thing gets their attention and puts you in good stead with your landlord.

 

[tboy]

Exactly as Mr Johnson stated: That cheque is nothing but a piece of toilet paper until in becomes a valid cheque on the date issued. No ifs ands or buts.

Your bank is continually in breach of contract by cashing the cheques before their valid date.

As Mr Johnson stated: print off that web link, take it to the bank, get your money back and if he doesn't comply file a complaint against him (or her) personally with the bank's complaint line (like that will do anything) and I'd also file a complaint with the FDIC. Also, isn't there a governing body overseeing banking practises?

 

[BallzDeep]

I would also call the landlord tenant place, what he's doing is no different than cashing a cheque dated for the 1st of the month on the 15th of the previous month, is the proper date on the lease, the 15th?

http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://w...t&cd=2&usg=AFQjCNEdIR3xV7wFTh5HYpBq3VM8NXxKmQ

 

[oldjones]

The one thing I believe you do have to worry about w/ a post-dated cheque is that it's fraudulent if the money—or an agreement w/ the bank to cover it—is not there on the cheque date.

 

[squash500]

I spoke with my bank manager last time this happened, about 8 months ago, and he told me the date means nothing, unless it's "stale-dated". He simply tried to sell me products - more overdraft, LOC, etc.

Just got off the phone with CIBC Helpline and they gave me the party line: the date is agreement between me and the landlord -- he could deposit all ten remaining cheques and deposit them and the bank would process them. The bank doesn't give a shit.

At the bank I deal with the teller won't cash a cheque if the date is too early. As other posters said then what is the point of having post-dated cheques in the first place ?

 

[Kya_Jean]

I spoke with my bank manager last time this happened, about 8 months ago, and he told me the date means nothing, unless it's "stale-dated". He simply tried to sell me products - more overdraft, LOC, etc.

Just got off the phone with CIBC Helpline and they gave me the party line: the date is agreement between me and the landlord -- he could deposit all ten remaining cheques and deposit them and the bank would process them. The bank doesn't give a shit.

That is not true as at, but first thing I would do is put a stop payment on all cheques now.

I would also go to the bank, speak to the manage again but this time tell him to close all your accounts. See how fast he changes his tune.

Then from now on and this is most important since your landlord is a dick, I would not pay the landlord in anything other then a money order from now on. I would get one on the day the rent is due so it as the date of the 15th on it but not pay it until a few weeks later. You have proof that you paid it on time, but let your landlord feel the pinch for a bit.

 

[squash500]

The Bank Manager does not know his Job.

Print this and let him read it.


http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/BankInsurance/Cheques/ChequesInfo-5-eng.asp


Post-dated cheques

The Canadian Payments Association (CPA) is the organization that develops rules for Canada's cheque-clearing and settlement system. CPA has developed a rule, called A1: General Rules Pertaining to Items Acceptable for Exchange, for the Purposes of Clearing and Settlement, which states that any bank that is a member of CPA cannot cash your cheque before the date indicated on it.

If your bank or trust company does cash your cheque before this date, CPA has another rule, called A4, Returned and Redirected Items, which allows for your financial institution to return the cheque and put the money back into your account. You can only ask your bank or trust company to do this up to the day before the cheque should have been cashed.

If you have not resolved your problem with a post-dated cheque at the branch level or if the cheque has resulted in non-sufficient funds fees being charged to you, you can make a complaint using your financial institution's complaint-handling process. Federal financial consumer protection legislation requires all federally regulated financial institutions to have a complaint-handling process in place to help resolve disputes between consumers and their financial institutions. This process includes a third-party dispute-resolution body.

FCAC publishes the complaint-handling process for all federally regulated financial institutions on its Web site.

Making a Complaint
Man on cellular phone Click here to find the complaint-handling process for your financial institution

All banks, retail associations and federal trust, loan and insurance companies must, by law, have a complaint-handling process in place for consumers.

If you have a complaint or a problem with a federally regulated financial institution, you can take the following steps to resolve it.

Step 1: Local level

First, you should try to resolve the problem directly with the manager or customer service representative of your financial institution. This would involve dealing with branch staff or the branch's local representative.

Step 2: Senior level or internal ombudsman

If your complaint cannot be resolved at the branch or local level, it may be referred to a senior staff member or an internal ombudsman.

Step 3: Third-party review

In most cases, if your complaint has not been resolved to your satisfaction, you can have it reviewed by a third party. This service is non-binding and is available to any individual or small business with a complaint.

* For banks and trust companies, you may contact the Ombudsman for Banking Services and Investments (OBSI).

* For concerns and complaints about life and health products and services issued by life insurance companies, contact the Canadian Life and Health Insurance OmbudService (CLHIO).

* For problems concerning home, car and business insurance, you can contact the General Insurance OmbudService (GIO).


Provincial regulator

In some cases, depending on the type of financial institution you deal with, you may also contact your provincial regulator. For a list of the regulators in your province, please visit the Other Regulators section of our Web site or call us toll-free at: 1-866-461-3222.

FCAC

Part of FCAC's role is to ensure that financial institutions have a complaint-handling process in place. If you are having difficulty finding out about your institution's complaint-handling process or if you are experiencing delays when using it, call us toll-free at the number above. However, please keep in mind that FCAC does not provide redress or compensation and that we cannot get involved in individual disputes.

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