Police union wants G20 officers who removed name tags to get promotions

fuji

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Keebler Elf

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Ultimately I think the Board is going to have to promote them but it's good to see they're at least starting to grow some balls...

During the June 2010 G20 summit, a total of 90 police officers were found to have removed their name tags during demonstrations. Those officers, including the nine at the centre of the promotion controversy, were given a one-day suspension without pay as punishment.

One argument being raised against the board’s decision is a rule that prevents officers from being punished twice for the same offence. Board critics say that because the officers already lost a day’s pay they can’t be denied a promotion because of their G20 offence.

Furthermore, Ontario’s police act does not permit the withholding of a reclassification as a disciplinary act. In some police circles, some have argued this is what the oversight board is doing.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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What is even worse is these are relatively new officers and they already have an attitude of impunity and entitlement. I say well done to the board. One of it's roles is oversight.....and in this case they are fulfilling that role.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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They were docked one day's pay for an act which demonstrated irresponsibility and disrespect for the law and the community they serve. In the long run, that offence shouldn't stand in the way of their advancement. But it should be up to them and those recommending their promotion to explicitly state how their conduct in the months since has demonstrated their reformed attitude. If such statements cannot be made, they should be fast-tracked for dismissal, not promotion.

No sign of that in any of the coverage.
 

TGirl Nikki

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I thought they got a one-day paid vacation...

They were suspended actually. This will be an interesting test to see if the board has any value at all.
... but I could be wrong. I know there was a one-day "suspension" but I thought it was with pay, not without.

It's irrelevant whether they got paid or not, but not a single one of the cops who removed their nameplates or badges deserves to keep their job. In a democratic society, we give a select few people permission to use violence on an as-needed, specific basis, to protect society at large from worse, more indiscriminate violence.

A person who is legally permitted to use violence must be held accountable for ALL acts of violence they commit, under ALL circumstances. That includes off-duty actions as well. Society trains these people to understand the use-of-force continuum, and to use it appropriately; if they act in an inappropriate manner, they should be given the chance to explain their actions, but nonetheless be held accountable for them.

However, each one of these officers refused to abide by this covenant, preferring anonymity over responsibility, and each and every one of them knew what they were pissing on when they became worse than the "mob" they were expected to "police." Any officer who decides he wants to go "outside the law" by making himself unidentifiable (and thereby, unaccountable) has no business policing anyone - that's the exact moment when the term "secret police" starts to apply, and replaces "police services."

The psychological term is deindividuation, but I'll use a simpler word - each and every one of these anonymous cops is a coward, and doesn't deserve to wear the badge ever again, let alone receive a promotion. This disgusts me on so many levels. :mad:

Ok, cue the police apologists...
 

rld

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It was without pay I think.

I think that was, but would not fire them for it, depending on their previous records.

It also depends on how they were previously instructed.

I do most heartily agree that those that we entrust with the state sanctioned use of force must be closely monitored and be held to a very high standard.
 

ready2rock

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... but I could be wrong. I know there was a one-day "suspension" but I thought it was with pay, not without.

It's irrelevant whether they got paid or not, but not a single one of the cops who removed their nameplates or badges deserves to keep their job. In a democratic society, we give a select few people permission to use violence on an as-needed, specific basis, to protect society at large from worse, more indiscriminate violence.

A person who is legally permitted to use violence must be held accountable for ALL acts of violence they commit, under ALL circumstances. That includes off-duty actions as well. Society trains these people to understand the use-of-force continuum, and to use it appropriately; if they act in an inappropriate manner, they should be given the chance to explain their actions, but nonetheless be held accountable for them.

However, each one of these officers refused to abide by this covenant, preferring anonymity over responsibility, and each and every one of them knew what they were pissing on when they became worse than the "mob" they were expected to "police." Any officer who decides he wants to go "outside the law" by making himself unidentifiable (and thereby, unaccountable) has no business policing anyone - that's the exact moment when the term "secret police" starts to apply, and replaces "police services."

The psychological term is deindividuation, but I'll use a simpler word - each and every one of these anonymous cops is a coward, and doesn't deserve to wear the badge ever again, let alone receive a promotion. This disgusts me on so many levels. :mad:

Ok, cue the police apologists...
According the the article in the Star, they were suspended without pay for a day.

Past that, I can't disagree with anything else you wrote - these 9 officers are an embarrassment to themselves, to Toronto, and should no longer be allowed the privilege to wear the badge & be on the public payroll.

R2R
 

Julian

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moviefan

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What the hell does the recommendation to promote these guys say about Chief Bill Blair?
 

oldjones

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What the hell does the recommendation to promote these guys say about Chief Bill Blair?
At some point a person who breaks the rules/law and is punished for it should be treated as reformed and rehabilitated. If they are. But we've heard nothing to say that anyone asked that question.

Of course we might (and I do), with hindsight, believe this was a more significant offence than the regulations appear to view it, but we don't punish folks according to laws we make up afterwards.

Of course their union is taking their part in the controversy. It's their purpose to protect and promote the interests of their members. Would that every worker had access to similar support. The real questions have to do with why these promotions were brought forward without directly addressing the seriousness of the offence , and whether the union is participating in any sort of discussions within the department to improve the disciplinary process, so that next time we can be confident the punishment and the officer's rehabilitation did fit the crime.
 

TGirl Nikki

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Nine? More like NINETY!

Yes, those who removed their nametags were suspended without pay... boo fucking hoo. Only nine of them are up for promotion, but NINETY of them were suspended for removing their badges. As an added bonus, the one cop - Const. Babak Andalib-Goortani - who has been charged with G20-related abuses remains on the payroll, and has NOT been suspended.

That's nearly a hundred police officers, all of whom still have jobs "serving" the public. Perhaps they've realized their mistake and "rehabilitated" themselves. But would you let a teacher, previously convicted of molestation, get his job back after finishing his prison term? Even if he only did it once, and he was really, really sorry? Absolutely not! Some lines, once crossed, can never be crossed back over, and I would argue that's the case here - once they show a willingness to remove their identification, they have permanently broken the public trust, and do not deserve a second chance.

My bigger concern is what this says about the entire culture of policing, from the beat cop to the Chief. To paraphrase Zimbardo:

One bad officer? Maybe he's just a bad apple.
Nine bad officers in one unit? Maybe it's just a bad barrel.
But NINETY officers, from different units and sections?!? That's a bad barrel-maker. Couple in the fact that the SUI found numerous cases of abuse which couldn't be prosecuted due to lack of evidence (a.k.a. lack of testimony from other supposedly-upstanding officers)? Rotten to the goddamned core.

Oh, before someone comes back with "You say that now but I'll bet they're the first people you'll call in an emergency" - think again. I've read Dial 911 and Die too many times to leave my survival in the hands of these bozos.



Ok, I've done more than enough anti-police ranting for one day! Have a great long weekend everyone! <3
 

rld

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Yes, those who removed their nametags were suspended without pay... boo fucking hoo. Only nine of them are up for promotion, but NINETY of them were suspended for removing their badges. As an added bonus, the one cop - Const. Babak Andalib-Goortani - who has been charged with G20-related abuses remains on the payroll, and has NOT been suspended.

That's nearly a hundred police officers, all of whom still have jobs "serving" the public. Perhaps they've realized their mistake and "rehabilitated" themselves. But would you let a teacher, previously convicted of molestation, get his job back after finishing his prison term? Even if he only did it once, and he was really, really sorry? Absolutely not! Some lines, once crossed, can never be crossed back over, and I would argue that's the case here - once they show a willingness to remove their identification, they have permanently broken the public trust, and do not deserve a second chance.

My bigger concern is what this says about the entire culture of policing, from the beat cop to the Chief. To paraphrase Zimbardo:

One bad officer? Maybe he's just a bad apple.
Nine bad officers in one unit? Maybe it's just a bad barrel.
But NINETY officers, from different units and sections?!? That's a bad barrel-maker. Couple in the fact that the SUI found numerous cases of abuse which couldn't be prosecuted due to lack of evidence (a.k.a. lack of testimony from other supposedly-upstanding officers)? Rotten to the goddamned core.

Oh, before someone comes back with "You say that now but I'll bet they're the first people you'll call in an emergency" - think again. I've read Dial 911 and Die too many times to leave my survival in the hands of these bozos.
I have great respect for your opinion and you started off in a good place. However it strikes me that comparing a police officer who removed his ID to a teacher who is a child molester is a little histrionic.

The chap who has been charged is not yet punished because he has not yet been convicted. Punishment after conviction, what a crazy idea.

And the book you link to does not accurately reflect the law in Canada. But feel free to not pick up the phone and dial if you think it is a waste of your time.
 

Julian

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I have great respect for your opinion and you started off in a good place. However it strikes me that comparing a police officer who removed his ID to a teacher who is a child molester is a little histrionic.

The chap who has been charged is not yet punished because he has not yet been convicted. Punishment after conviction, what a crazy idea.

And the book you link to does not accurately reflect the law in Canada. But feel free to not pick up the phone and dial if you think it is a waste of your time.

The police punish civilians prior to conviction all the time...
 
Ashley Madison
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