Planet Fitness value plummets after Trans policy outrage

[shack]

You always pretzel yourself in just about any argument that I have had with you as I pointed out in my previous comments.

How can it be pretzelling when I stick to the same point. Your post was homophic. I gave an explanation of why it is so and have not strayed from that explanation.

I have asked you twice to explain what the meaning your insult to Oracle meant, other than my interpretation that it as homophobic. What has that "he knows too much about getting cocks aroused" supposed to mean? Are you unable to answer?

And yes, keep politics out of all other threads. Accusations of homophobia are a hot button political topic and should be kept to the appropriate threads on the Politics forum..

You were the first one to mention these things in this thread so you were the one that improperly posted them

Falsely accusing someone of homophobia, like you have done just now, not only does not belong in the Lounge forums, but also amounts to trolling which is against TERB rules.

So far, you have provided no evidence of how I am wrong in my accusation despite me giving you opportunities to do so. Therefore, my accusations remain valid until proven false.

admitting you were racist, white supremacist, advocating apartheid, genocide etc amongst other things. Good job trashing yourself.

This is your political statement that had nothing to do with this thread. RACIST, WHITE SUPREMACIST, APARTHEID, GENOCIDE These are all topics that you have dragged in from the political section to demean, insult, slander me. None of these have anything to do with Planet Fitness and were not mentioned here prior to you bringing them here. You are carrying a grudge and have no problem breaking TERB protocol to do so. Your are prolonging a discussion from the Political Forum and bringing it to the General Forum.

Relying on others for support, and pointing it out, is a sign of weakness and a lack of conviction in what you are trying to say. You do not believe what you are saying, so you need people with skin in the game to agree with you, so you feel better about your positions. Your statements couldn't be weaker.

Actually, a weak argument is where more people disagree with you than vice versa. I was simply pointing out how weak your position is. I had already made that abundantly evident, but some people need to be his over the head to see the reality of a situation.

Closeted people can be homophobic and infact often times are. That said I should have said IF Oracle was gay, I was okay with it. But that does not change the fact that I am totally okay with it.[/QUOTE]
But you didn't say "if" did you? You are the pretzel master indeed.

I have only 2 statements I take at face value: a) Oracle's history of making anti-LGBTQ comments and b) Oracle saying he knows intimate details about a man or transwoman's sexual proclivities and preferences, that only intimate partners would know. Hence my statement pointing out the hypocrisy to him. Your accusations of homophobia, that too toward someone who repeatedly argues FOR LGBTQ rights, therefore have no legs.[/QUOTE]It's fine to call out hypocrisy but using a homophobic insult to do so is not fine.

If you were so clued in on anything you'd know that wasn't even addressed to you.

Saying your post was homophobic was addressed to you. You attempted to insult him by claiming that he has lots of homosexual experience as if there was something wrong with that. Please provide us a basis for that logic without it sounding so homophobic.

Humanity has been ignorant, cruel and uncivilized for the majority of history.

You have been profound in reinforcing that.

 

[Kautilya]

How can it be pretzelling when I stick to the same point. Your post was homophic. I gave an explanation of why it is so and have not strayed from that explanation.

I have asked you twice to explain what the meaning your insult to Oracle meant, other than my interpretation that it as homophobic. What has that "he knows too much about getting cocks aroused" supposed to mean? Are you unable to answer?

So far, you have provided no evidence of how I am wrong in my accusation despite me giving you opportunities to do so. Therefore, my accusations remain valid until proven false.

You have pretzeled yourself time and again on issues of racism, genocide, apartheid and everything else. You were talking about your debating skills and I am pointing out that your debating skills amount to making contradictory statements ending up twisting into a pretzel after which you fall silent and abandon the discussion, because it is going nowhere for you.

I have already explained more than twice what the meaning of my statement to Oracle was. Go read my previous posts. Are you unable to read or do you just not read what is posted?

You were the first one to mention these things in this thread so you were the one that improperly posted them

I wasn't discussing those issues. Those are examples of your poor debating skills. So I wasn't improperly posting anything. The only one to improperly post anything was you, taking a hot button political topic and falsely attributing to me.

This is your political statement that had nothing to do with this thread. RACIST, WHITE SUPREMACIST, APARTHEID, GENOCIDE These are all topics that you have dragged in from the political section to demean, insult, slander me. None of these have anything to do with Planet Fitness and were not mentioned here prior to you bringing them here. You are carrying a grudge and have no problem breaking TERB protocol to do so. Your are prolonging a discussion from the Political Forum and bringing it to the General Forum.

Read my statement again. The discussion is not about apartheid, genocide or racism. It is about your debating skills. Am I discussing those topics? No. I am pointing to your poor debating skills on each of those topics and using them as examples. So there is nothing political in my posts. I guess I have one more example now, where you cannot even comprehend what a post is about, but you go on and on about something that never happened.

Actually, a weak argument is where more people disagree with you than vice versa. I was simply pointing out how weak your position is. I had already made that abundantly evident, but some people need to be his over the head to see the reality of a situation.

People agreeing or disagreeing has nothing to do with whether an argument is weak or strong. I mean after all, you brought a political topic into the Lounge, breaking TERB rules, and the people who supported you were righties, who normally are anti-LGBTQ, so their support does not mean much. Your argument, needs to hold its own weight because of the reasoning and facts you use in it and you need to be confident in the point you are trying to make. You weren't. You show no conviction, do not reason your arguments well and instead rely on whatever spurious support you get from a couple of guys to say "my argument is strong". No. Your argument is weak and you are making it apparent.

But you didn't say "if" did you? You are the pretzel master indeed.

So that is not really a gotcha, because, I just said that I should have said "IF". But it does not change anything, because all I said was, I am cool with that. And I am.

It's fine to call out hypocrisy but using a homophobic insult to do so is not fine.

I did not use a homophobic slur. If I had called Oracle a "faggot" or otherwise said anything negative that would have been a homophobic slur. I instead pointed out his hypocrisy, in a tongue in cheek manner. Your interpretation of this as homophobic was wholly inappropriate and political, which was inappropriate considering the forum we are in.

Saying your post was homophobic was addressed to you. You attempted to insult him by claiming that he has lots of homosexual experience as if there was something wrong with that. Please provide us a basis for that logic without it sounding so homophobic.

You don't know what you are responding to. This is an unrelated ramble, and a non-response.

You have been profound in reinforcing that.

Yes. I have great examples in you and a few others, who take despicable, inhumane and downright deplorable positions that have helped me in reinforcing that point.

 

[The Oracle]

Closeted people can be homophobic and infact often times are. That said I should have said IF Oracle was gay, I was okay with it. But that does not change the fact that I am totally okay with it. I have only 2 statements I take at face value: a) Oracle's history of making anti-LGBTQ comments and b) Oracle saying he knows intimate details about a man or transwoman's sexual proclivities and preferences, that only intimate partners would know. Hence my statement pointing out the hypocrisy to him. Your accusations of homophobia, that too toward someone who repeatedly argues FOR LGBTQ rights, therefore have no legs. So try again without pretzeling yourself.

In your own words describe what homophobic means...Don't copy and paste.

 

[The Oracle]

Orry did not think it was insulting to claim that he knew all about what gave the guy in the pic an erection.

Interesting how you've taken to shortening board names and putting y's on the end. Kind of a way of condescending to someone. You didn't used to do that but lately you've copied another member on here who regularly does it. You're spiralling,

 

[Kautilya]

In your own words describe what homophobic means...Don't copy and paste.

Dislike, prejudice, discrimination, or attributing negative things to a gay person because of their sexual orientation. Why?

Interesting how you've taken to shortening board names and putting y's on the end. Kind of a way of condescending to someone. You didn't used to do that but lately you've copied another member on here who regularly does it. You're spiralling,

Yeah may be Mandrill's lingo rubbed off on me. So what? Why is that spiralling? Spiralling toward what? lol.

 

[The Oracle]

Dislike, prejudice, discrimination, or attributing negative things to a gay person because of their sexual orientation. Why?

I guess this is the time I'm supposed to mention I have gay friends. Then you attack me for saying that.

Yeah may be Mandrill's lingo rubbed off on me. So what?

The fact that you have to ask that is troubling...

 

[shack]

You have pretzeled yourself time and again on issues of racism, genocide, apartheid and everything else. You were talking about your debating skills and I am pointing out that your debating skills amount to making contradictory statements ending up twisting into a pretzel after which you fall silent and abandon the discussion, because it is going nowhere for you.

And none of that was a factor in this discussion. In a topic about a fitness club you felt the need bring your grudge into the equation. It sounds like you are consumed with attacking me. I'll take that as a compliment.

I have already explained more than twice what the meaning of my statement to Oracle was. Go read my previous posts. Are you unable to read or do you just not read what is posted?

I did, and they still sound homophobic. And Oracle doesn't seem to be sharing your sentiment either. Knowing you, you'll say Oracles opinion is irrelevant or doesn't matter.

I wasn't discussing those issues. Those are examples of your poor debating skills. So I wasn't improperly posting anything. The only one to improperly post anything was you, taking a hot button political topic and falsely attributing to me.

You didn't have to discuss them. Smearing me with those labels in a thread about fitness clubs was still off topic and inappropriate.

Read my statement again. The discussion is not about apartheid, genocide or racism. It is about your debating skills. Am I discussing those topics? No. I am pointing to your poor debating skills on each of those topics and using them as examples. So there is nothing political in my posts. I guess I have one more example now, where you cannot even comprehend what a post is about, but you go on and on about something that never happened.

We all know what the post was about. So why did you feel the need to include words that had only been used in the ME discussion such as "racist, genocide. apartheid" etc. They were inappropriate to use in this topic/thread/discussion.

People agreeing or disagreeing has nothing to do with whether an argument is weak or strong. I mean after all, you brought a political topic into the Lounge, breaking TERB rules, and the people who supported you were righties, who normally are anti-LGBTQ, so their support does not mean much. Your argument, needs to hold its own weight because of the reasoning and facts you use in it and you need to be confident in the point you are trying to make. You weren't. You show no conviction, do not reason your arguments well and instead rely on whatever spurious support you get from a couple of guys to say "my argument is strong". No. Your argument is weak and you are making it apparent.

You're favourite. When faced with a point that you have no counter for is "irrelevant", "that doesn't matter", blah, blah.

It's called general consensus, public opinion etc. It means you are in the wrong.

So that is not really a gotcha, because, I just said that I should have said "IF". But it does not change anything, because...

....it's still homophobic.

I did not use a homophobic slur. If I had called Oracle a "faggot" or otherwise

The English language is very versatile. You still managed to make a homophobic slur without using a particular homophobic word.

You don't know what you are responding to. This is an unrelated ramble, and a non-response.

Well, for something that was so unrelated, you've become very defensive.

 

[Kautilya]

And none of that was a factor in this discussion. In a topic about a fitness club you felt the need bring your grudge into the equation. It sounds like you are consumed with attacking me. I'll take that as a compliment.

I did not say it was a factor in this discussion. I said your debating skills are poor and used them as examples. And why will I have a grudge over your poor debating skills? If anything, you are the one with the grudge, because you responded to my comment, and brought a hot button political issue to a forum where it did not belong. This is yet another example of your poor debating skills.

I did, and they still sound homophobic. And Oracle doesn't seem to be sharing your sentiment either. Knowing you, you'll say Oracles opinion is irrelevant or doesn't matter.

How it sounds to you is irrelevant. What it actually means, is what matters, And once again relying on someone else's opinion because you do not have conviction. And why will Oracle share sentiments with me when I am calling out his hypocrisy? For someone with training in logic, that wasn't very logical at all, was it?

You didn't have to discuss them. Smearing me with those labels in a thread about fitness clubs was still off topic and inappropriate.

We all know what the post was about. So why did you feel the need to include words that had only been used in the ME discussion such as "racist, genocide. apartheid" etc. They were inappropriate to use in this topic/thread/discussion.

What labels? Poor debating skills label? Branding you a poor debater, is not political. Calling me homophobic in the lounge forums, is political and inappropriate.

You're favourite. When faced with a point that you have no counter for is "irrelevant", "that doesn't matter", blah, blah.

It's called general consensus, public opinion etc. It means you are in the wrong.

The word irrelevant and the phrase "that doesn't matter" do not appear in the response you just quoted. So that is just a plain lie. As I said, it is a weak argument, to rely on general consensus or public opinion. You rely on those things when your argument isn't strong. That said, your "general consensus" amounts to the one other guy, who I called out as hypocritical. So not only is your argument weak, the support you are relying on is even weaker.

....it's still homophobic.

No it isn't. And that accusation is political and is inappropriate in the lounge forums.

The English language is very versatile. You still managed to make a homophobic slur without using a particular homophobic word.

It is not homophobic to to point out someone else's hypocrisy.

Well, for something that was so unrelated, you've become very defensive.

For someone who says his arguments are strong, you don't even read what you are responding to. If there was ever a defensive comment, your comment just now, is.

 

[shack]

I did not say it was a factor in this discussion. I said your debating skills are poor and used them as examples. And why will I have a grudge over your poor debating skills? If anything, you are the one with the grudge, because you responded to my comment, and brought a hot button political issue to a forum where it did not belong. This is yet another example of your poor debating skills.

How it sounds to you is irrelevant. What it actually means, is what matters, And once again relying on someone else's opinion because you do not have conviction. And why will Oracle share sentiments with me when I am calling out his hypocrisy? For someone with training in logic, that wasn't very logical at all, was it?

What labels? Poor debating skills label? Branding you a poor debater, is not political. Calling me homophobic in the lounge forums, is political and inappropriate.

The word irrelevant and the phrase "that doesn't matter" do not appear in the response you just quoted. So that is just a plain lie. As I said, it is a weak argument, to rely on general consensus or public opinion. You rely on those things when your argument isn't strong. That said, your "general consensus" amounts to the one other guy, who I called out as hypocritical. So not only is your argument weak, the support you are relying on is even weaker.

No it isn't. And that accusation is political and is inappropriate in the lounge forums.

It is not homophobic to to point out someone else's hypocrisy.

For someone who says his arguments are strong, you don't even read what you are responding to. If there was ever a defensive comment, your comment just now, is.

Give it up dude.

You are consumed with trying to win a(ny) debate. You undeniably brought politics into a discussion of fitness clubs, you undeniably tried to denigrate Oracle with a homophobic insult, you are not nearly as smart as you think and worst of all you are tedious, repeating your failed points over and over again. I've already addressed all your points so no need to go around in circles. I prefer debating with someone who actually provides an intellectual challenge and does not, out of hand, dismiss points that they have no rebuttal for.

TTFN

 

[Kautilya]

Give it up dude.

You are consumed with trying to win a(ny) debate. You undeniably brought politics into a discussion of fitness clubs, you undeniably tried to denigrate Oracle with a homophobic insult, you are not nearly as smart as you think and worst of all you are tedious, repeating your failed points over and over again. I've already addressed all your points so no need to go around in circles. I prefer debating with someone who actually provides an intellectual challenge and does not, out of hand, dismiss points that they have no rebuttal for.

TTFN

I accept your surrender and your declaration that I am smarter than you with pomp and circumstance.

Always remember you started this and just as I predicted earlier that you'd abandon a discussion when it doesn't go your way, which is frequently the case, you abandoned this one too. Ciao.

 

[richaceg]

The UFC literally has LGBTQ fighters. Who literally kiss in the Octagon after the fight. The UFC also invites Mark Zuckerberg to its events. It doesn't mean anything. You shouldn't consider the UFC as some anti-woke, conservative organization. It is not. They dont really have a political affiliation.

The UFC actually proves to you that conservatives aren't homophobic. Sure there are far right that are homophobic, there are far right that are racist....the fact that we can see a mile that your logic really is highly questionable...
Here's your logic in a few threads I've seen you post...
Someone posts against trans in womens bathroom Kautliya: he's a "righty"

 

[Kautilya]

The UFC actually proves to you that conservatives aren't homophobic. Sure there are far right that are homophobic, there are far right that are racist....the fact that we can see a mile that your logic really is highly questionable...
Here's your logic in a few threads I've seen you post...
Someone posts against trans in womens bathroom Kautliya: he's a "righty"

Then they are not exactly conservative. Prolly more like libertarian.

 

[richaceg]

Then they are not exactly conservative. Prolly more like libertarian.

they heavily support Trump as well as their audience...so is it safe to say it's not only "righties" that support Trump also libertarian if we keep following you?

 

[Kautilya]

they heavily support Trump as well as their audience...so is it safe to say it's not only "righties" that support Trump also libertarian if we keep following you?

I am a leftie and I am a UFC subscriber. So there goes your argument. People of all political affiliations support and consume UFC content. Trump shows up to these events because Dana is close to him because apparently Trump helped combat sports a lot and he helped Dana back in the day as well. Has nothing to do with politics. Heck Dana has said as much.

 

[richaceg]

I am a leftie and I am a UFC subscriber. So there goes your argument. People of all political affiliations support and consume UFC content. Trump shows up to these events because Dana is close to him because apparently Trump helped combat sports a lot and he helped Dana back in the day as well. Has nothing to do with politics. Heck Dana has said as much.

Wrong...sure a lot of leftie watches UFC, nobody is debating that. But to say Only righties support trump is presumptive....Dana already said they will heavily support Trump...So did Joe Rogan, also shows the audience do it....so yeah...keep reaching but you're the one who's saying all this shit about anyone that supports Trump are righties...Dana already mentioned it....Also Dana defending strickland's freedom of speech and saying he's not homophobic...because speaking about trans issue doesn't mean you're homophobic, you just have common sense...c'mon bud.

 

[Kautilya]

Wrong...sure a lot of leftie watches UFC, nobody is debating that. But to say Only righties support trump is presumptive....Dana already said they will heavily support Trump...So did Joe Rogan, also shows the audience do it....so yeah...keep reaching but you're the one who's saying all this shit about anyone that supports Trump are righties...Dana already mentioned it....Also Dana defending strickland's freedom of speech and saying he's not homophobic...because speaking about trans issue doesn't mean you're homophobic, you just have common sense...c'mon bud.

This is going to be a long post, because I want to talk through and bring clarity.

Conservative is a social and political position which is characterized by anti-LGBTQ attitudes, traditionalism, religiosity etc and if someone is not anti-LGBTQ then it means they are not conservative in the truest sense.

Libertarians (or more accurately Right Libertarianism - which is primarily what we mean by Libertarian in North America) may be more open to LGB rights, and yes, that does not make them conservatives. However, they could be anti-trans, as is the case with Joe Rogan and co.

Both conservatism and libertarianism (right libertarianism) both fall on the "Right" of the political spectrum. Hence they are both right wingers. The difference between conservatives and libertarians is that conservatives are just more authoritarian than libertarians.

Here is the political spectrum quadrant. Essentially people who fall in the Blue and Purple categories would support Trump (again, not all of them support Trump, but all of Trump's supporters would fall under those categories). I fall in the far left corner - the green box. I do not support Trump.



The UFC on the other hand, is not an organization with political affiliations. They are a business. They have all kinds of customers and they host all kinds of people and are sponsored by all kinds of businesses. Individuals in the UFC may lean one way or another, but it means absolutely nothing regarding the organization itself.

Therefore, everyone who supports Trump is, objectively, a Rightie.

By the way you'd be surprised to know, that Biden is actually a "Rightie" too. So is Obama lol. They are just a little less authoritarian than Trump. In the US the system is so flawed with a two party system, that essentially the Repugs and the Dems are two sides of the same coin and they basically have divided the populace between them. So when Americans are voting Dems, they are not voting left, they are just voting "a little less authoritarian".



Here it is for Canada (2021). You'd be again surprised to know that the Liberals are really on the right, just a little less authoritarian than the conservatives. Another interesting thing to note is that PP is really equivalent to a Dem. See where Biden and the CPC fall on the spectrum (My friend used to jokingly say Canadian conservatives are really American democrats lol). So basically Canada is just a little less authoritarian and a little more left wing than the US.

I vote NDP. And as I said, I fall in the green. So do they.



And finally me. See where I am? Hence I vote NDP:



PS: You can take this test and figure out where you fall.

The Political Compass

A typology of political opinions plotted on 2 dimensions: economic and social.

www.politicalcompass.org

 

[richaceg]

This is going to be a long post, because I want to talk through and bring clarity.

Conservative is a social and political position which is characterized by anti-LGBTQ attitudes, traditionalism, religiosity etc and if someone is not anti-LGBTQ then it means they are not conservative in the truest sense.

Libertarians (or more accurately Right Libertarianism - which is primarily what we mean by Libertarian in North America) may be more open to LGB rights, and yes, that does not make them conservatives. However, they could be anti-trans, as is the case with Joe Rogan and co.

Both conservatism and libertarianism (right libertarianism) both fall on the "Right" of the political spectrum. Hence they are both right wingers. The difference between conservatives and libertarians is that conservatives are just more authoritarian than libertarians.

Here is the political spectrum quadrant. Essentially people who fall in the Blue and Purple categories would support Trump (again, not all of them support Trump, but all of Trump's supporters would fall under those categories). I fall in the far left corner - the green box. I do not support Trump.

View attachment 309446

The UFC on the other hand, is not an organization with political affiliations. They are a business. They have all kinds of customers and they host all kinds of people and are sponsored by all kinds of businesses. Individuals in the UFC may lean one way or another, but it means absolutely nothing regarding the organization itself.

Therefore, everyone who supports Trump is, objectively, a Rightie.

By the way you'd be surprised to know, that Biden is actually a "Rightie" too. So is Obama lol. They are just a little less authoritarian than Trump. In the US the system is so flawed with a two party system, that essentially the Repugs and the Dems are two sides of the same coin and they basically have divided the populace between them. So when Americans are voting Dems, they are not voting left, they are just voting "a little less authoritarian".

View attachment 309447

Here it is for Canada (2021). You'd be again surprised to know that the Liberals are really on the right, just a little less authoritarian than the conservatives. Another interesting thing to note is that PP is really equivalent to a Dem. See where Biden and the CPC fall on the spectrum (My friend used to jokingly say Canadian conservatives are really American democrats lol). So basically Canada is just a little less authoritarian and a little more left wing than the US.

I vote NDP. And as I said, I fall in the green. So do they.

View attachment 309448

And finally me. See where I am? Hence I vote NDP:

View attachment 309449

PS: You can take this test and figure out where you fall.

The Political Compass

A typology of political opinions plotted on 2 dimensions: economic and social.

www.politicalcompass.org

We can take the test back and forth but the argument here is that, You think UFC / Dana White are Libertarian, and they can surely be, the point here is that not all Trump Supporters are "Righties", he's got the righties but not all righties support him either. All I'm pointing out to you is that Libertarians also support Trump since you claim UFC/Dana White could probably be. Trump himself has always been a democrat until the 2010s...

 

[Kautilya]

We can take the test back and forth but the argument here is that, You think UFC / Dana White are Libertarian, and they can surely be, the point here is that not all Trump Supporters are "Righties", he's got the righties but not all righties support him either. All I'm pointing out to you is that Libertarians also support Trump since you claim UFC/Dana White could probably be. Trump himself has always been a democrat until the 2010s...

So you did not read what I posted?

I literally just addressed this. Libertarians (It is what we call Right Libertarians in North America) are righties too. I did not say what Dana White was - he may be conservative or libertarian - I do not know. I also said that the UFC is non-political - not libertarian or conservative - non-political, as it is a business that does not advocate for anything.

Whether you are conservative or libertarian, you are a rightie. All Trump supporters are therefore righties. And they fall in either the Blue or Purple boxes below. Aka to the RIGHT.

 

[mitchell76]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1773082776243192238

 

[richaceg]

So you did not read what I posted?

I literally just addressed this. Libertarians (It is what we call Right Libertarians in North America) are righties too. I did not say what Dana White was - he may be conservative or libertarian - I do not know. I also said that the UFC is non-political - not libertarian or conservative - non-political, as it is a business that does not advocate for anything.

Whether you are conservative or libertarian, you are a rightie. All Trump supporters are therefore righties. And they fall in either the Blue or Purple boxes below. Aka to the RIGHT.

View attachment 309452

wrong....not everyone that voted trump automatically falls under the category....how do you think he beat Hilary in the states Hilary was suppose to mop the floor with Trump? Because there are also Bernie supporters that rather have Trump than Hilary, UFC also made it political when they keep bringing in Trump...Dana said it himself. He will help Trump with all the resources he has because he thinks he's the best candidate out there....I don't think Trump is the best for the US....Heck I though he was done after losing to Biden....the left kept hounding him and Trump's ego will not let it go. That's his nature....Remember the first time he ran for president? It's because of the lefty crowd egging him on....they created the monster they fear most... Trump is the boogeyman for the left....