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Peter Strzok Fired.

Butler1000

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I am not that smart but I am smart enough to know that the people who actually conducted the investigation and had actual aces to all the actual evidence that they deemed necessary to conduct an actual fulsome investigation know more than I do. And I do not rely on the fantasy of the deep state and other conspiracies that were created for the purpose of providing cover for the PGOTUS.

As a lawyer (non-practicing) I understand the utility and limits of evidence and how LEGAL decisions are made. I do not find conspiracies where they are necessary to excuse conduct or idiotic excuses and rationales for decisions I do not like or agree with. In real life there is not always the evidence you wish you had. You work with what you have. Every crime does not have an eye witness but law enforcement does its job and carries on. The invention of these issues by the defenders of the PGOTUS are really quite comical and the willingness of you and many, many others to accept them is the saddest commentary on the state of the US.

You ant eh others are being played for fools by Trump, Jordan, Nunes etc and you are too dumb to see it.
The FBI investigation under Strzok did not have access the DNC server that was supposedly hacked. The DNC DENIED THEM ACCESS. This is a matter of public record. Instead Strzok chose to rely solely on the word of a private security company to reach its conclusion.

Ever hear of the term "chain of evidence". Look it up. It's broken here. The "Hack" will never see a day in court because of this. Ever.

Strzok is dirty. It's that simple. And this farce is a fishing expedition. One that is failing.

Again not a single charge of relating to election tampering has been laid against a single person related to the Trump team.

You are the one who has drank the koolaid.
 

Butler1000

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No, the first reaction should be clone the drives, as the FBI did.
That way you get a static picture of the info at the time, with no way for it to be changed, either by those who have hacked into them or those who were using them.
By the way, there were over 100 servers, do you think the FBI should have taken in all of those servers and shut down the dems in the middle of an election?

Your argument is an idiotic talking point that bears no reality on how computer forensics are dealt with.
No, they didn't clone the drives. They were given supposed screen shots of what occured. The FBI never examined the servers. They were denied access.

They could have examined the drives directly without shutting down the DNC. What they were afraid of is the contents of their primary rigging coming to light.
 

Frankfooter

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No, they didn't clone the drives. They were given supposed screen shots of what occured. The FBI never examined the servers. They were denied access.

They could have examined the drives directly without shutting down the DNC. What they were afraid of is the contents of their primary rigging coming to light.
You really have no clue.
This is a really stupid conspiracy theory.

I called up Thomas Rid, professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies to help explain the technical details behind this type of forensic investigation. Rid, who wrote a detailed explanation about why Russia was likely behind the DNC hack for Motherboard in July 2016, told me that “from a forensic point of view, the question of a server at this stage doesn’t make any sense.”

“To really investigate a high profile intrusion like the DNC hack, you have to look beyond the victim network,” Rid said. “You have to look at the infrastructure—the command and control sites that were used to get in that are not going to be on any server ... looking at one server is just one isolated piece of infrastructure.”

"For decades, it has been industry-standard forensic and digital evidence handling practice to conduct analysis on forensic images instead of original evidence"

Even so, what CrowdStrike gave the FBI is likely better than if it had seized and analyzed a physical box.

“To keep it simple, let’s say there’s only one server. CrowdStrike goes in, makes a complete image including a memory dump of everything that was in the memory of the server at the time, including traffic and connections at the time,” Rid said. “You have that image from the machine live in the network including its memory content, versus a server that someone physically carries into the FBI headquarters. It’s unplugged, so there’s no memory content because it’s powered down. That physical piece of hardware is less valuable for an investigation than the onsite image and data extraction from a machine that is up and running. The idea a physical server would add any value doesn’t make any sense.”

What Rid means is that after a hack, some of the evidence of who did it and how they did it may be fleeting. It could be in the server’s memory, the RAM, and not stored on its hard drive. (Hackers use “fileless” malware precisely for this reason.) To preserve evidence in cases like these, incident responders need to make an image—essentially a copy of the server in that exact same state at that exact same time—so they can look at it afterwards. Think about this like when investigators take pictures of the crime scene or victim.

Lesley Carhart, principal threat hunter at the cybersecurity firm Dragos, told Motherboard that physical servers are rarely seized in forensics investigations.

"For decades, it has been industry-standard forensic and digital evidence handling practice to conduct analysis on forensic images instead of original evidence," she said. "This decreases the risk of corruption or accidental modification of that evidence."

I asked Rid if he thought it was suspicious that the DNC did not hand over the actual server to the FBI, and he said “no, not at all.”

“There’s nothing suspicious about the DNC’s behavior,” he said. “There were political reasons and skepticism on the part of the DNC to let the FBI have full visibility into what they do for various reasons during an ongoing election campaign.”

Rid likened any computer forensics investigation to that of a military planning campaign, sort of like a map. “You can connect the dots and the behavior,” he said. “You can show whoever hacked John Podesta also attacked the DNC, and also attacked Jake Sullivan, who worked for Hillary Clinton, and hundreds of other people on the campaign.”

"The evidence that we have going back to before the Mueller indictment was published was already overwhelming"

Robert Mueller’s indictment relies on information that goes far beyond any single server to tie the Russians to the hack. For example, the indictment states that Russian military agents’ search histories indicated an interest in the DNC network in the weeks leading up to one of the hacks; it also has specific information about the development of malware (called X-Agent and X-Tunnel) used to surveil DNC employees and exfiltrate data from their computers, as well as specifics about the types of spearphishing attacks Russians allegedly launched against DNC employees. The indictment also has information about an Arizona-based server that the Russians leased to filter data through.


Some of that information would have had to have been obtained by examining DNC networks (or a copy of them), while some of the other details would have nothing to do with the DNC’s networks, its servers, or computers. Rid says that security researchers outside of the US government have been investigating Russia’s involvement in the hack for years (the details Rid published in 2016 are very similar to what was published in Friday’s indictment.)
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...rver-conspiracy-theory-russian-hack-explained

I doubt that you are informed enough to understand how stupid your claims are.
 

Frankfooter

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And further to butler's really stupid claims:

The “server” Trump is obsessed with is actually 140 servers, most of them cloud-based, which the DNC was forced to decommission in June 2016 while trying to rid its network of the Russian GRU officers working to help Trump win the election, according to the figures in the DNC’s civil lawsuit against Russia and the Trump campaign. Another 180 desktop and laptop computers were also swapped out as the DNC raced to get the organization back on its feet and free of Putin’s surveillance.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-missing-nor-a-server

Butler really thinks that the FBI should have taken in 140 cloud based servers and 180 desktops from one party in the middle of an election in order to get inferior evidence instead of making use of the most respected computer forensics team?
Really stupid.
 

Butler1000

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Butler1000

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toguy5252

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The FBI investigation under Strzok did not have access the DNC server that was supposedly hacked. The DNC DENIED THEM ACCESS. This is a matter of public record. Instead Strzok chose to rely solely on the word of a private security company to reach its conclusion.

Ever hear of the term "chain of evidence". Look it up. It's broken here. The "Hack" will never see a day in court because of this. Ever.

Strzok is dirty. It's that simple. And this farce is a fishing expedition. One that is failing.

Again not a single charge of relating to election tampering has been laid against a single person related to the Trump team.

You are the one who has drank the koolaid.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It is obvious from your casual (and improper) use of legal terms that you have no clue what you are talking about. Just because you know or have heard a legal phrase does not mean that you understand it or its proper application. It is clear that you do not. Instead of pretending to be a lawyer you should examine the idiotic theories and defenses that Nunes and Jordan et al throw out to the dumb and gullible Trump supporters more critically. When examined they always fall apart which then automatically leads to the next conspiracy or wacky theory. Try and be better than that.. HUTA syndrome can be cured.
 

Bud Plug

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It is obvious from your casual (and improper) use of legal terms that you have no clue what you are talking about. Just because you know or have heard a legal phrase does not mean that you understand it or its proper application. It is clear that you do not. Instead of pretending to be a lawyer you should examine the idiotic theories and defenses that Nunes and Jordan et al throw out to the dumb and gullible Trump supporters more critically. When examined they always fall apart which then automatically leads to the next conspiracy or wacky theory. Try and be better than that.. HUTA syndrome can be cured.
I don't know if Butler is a lawyer, but I do know that "idiotic theories", "dumb and gullible Trump supporters", "fall apart", "conspiracy or wacky theory", or "HUTA" are not legal phrases or concepts. Or even cogent arguments. Do you actually have a point to make to suggest that there could be no potential chain of custody (which is a legal concept) issues in seeking to rely upon or review, at this time, the physical servers that pertain to the storage of material accessed from the DNC in 2016?
 

Frankfooter

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It will never see a day in court. Guaranteed.
Chain of evidence broken. It will never see a day in court. Ever.
Wrong, as noted in the articles, this is the way its done and has been done for decades.
Nothing new, just more of the same way the legal system deals with computer hacks.

The Russian indictments based on the FBI investigations of Russian hacking of the dem servers have already been issued.
And the investigation continues.
You are out of touch.
 

toguy5252

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I don't know if Butler is a lawyer, but I do know that "idiotic theories", "dumb and gullible Trump supporters", "fall apart", "conspiracy or wacky theory", or "HUTA" are not legal phrases or concepts. Or even cogent arguments. Do you actually have a point to make to suggest that there could be no potential chain of custody (which is a legal concept) issues in seeking to rely upon or review, at this time, the physical servers that pertain to the storage of material accessed from the DNC in 2016?
Again I have no idea whether you are I lawyer. if you are you do not understand the concept. if you are not it is understandable but you should consider looking ingto what a legal rule manes before you throw it around as if you know. Which you clearly do not.
 

Bud Plug

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Again I have no idea whether you are I lawyer. if you are you do not understand the concept. if you are not it is understandable but you should consider looking ingto what a legal rule manes before you throw it around as if you know. Which you clearly do not.
I understand the concept. Do you have a point? I understand that you used to be a practicing lawyer at one time. Not sure if you ever explained what areas of law you practiced in. While I make a practice of revealing no personal and potentially identifying information on the internet, please accept my assurance that I will fully comprehend any legal point you wish to make about this subject.
 

toguy5252

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I understand the concept. Do you have a point? I understand that you used to be a practicing lawyer at one time. Not sure if you ever explained what areas of law you practiced in. While I make a practice of revealing no personal and potentially identifying information on the internet, please accept my assurance that I will fully comprehend any legal point you wish to make about this subject.
When I practiced and i did for over 25 years i did complex commercial litigation and the only criminal work I did involved complex white-collar fraud and tax evasion. I had about 50 jury trials overt he period and i appeared in all courts including the Supreme Court of Canada on 2 occasions ans the Ontario and British Columbia Courts of Appeal on numerous occasions. So although I may be a little rusty i do understand law.

Chain of custody has nothing at all to do with the servers which were never in the possession of the police of law enforcement. Chain of custody has only to with the the reliability of evidence and the possibility that it may have been tampered with or adulterated in some way as a result of the interruption in the custody of the party seeking to tender or rely upon it. So for example the police are at the scene of a crime and they take possession of a gun. they put it in the police locker. It goes missing and then it turns up. The evidence MAY be unreliable because someone could have changed fingerprints etc. That does not mean that the gun is not admissible evidence. it means that the weight attached to that piece of evidence may be discounted because it may no longer be reliable.
 

Bud Plug

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When I practiced and i did for over 25 years i did complex commercial litigation and the only criminal work I did involved complex white-collar fraud and tax evasion. I had about 50 jury trials overt he period and i appeared in all courts including the Supreme Court of Canada on 2 occasions ans the Ontario and British Columbia Courts of Appeal on numerous occasions. So although I may be a little rusty i do understand law.

Chain of custody has nothing at all to do with the servers which were never in the possession of the police of law enforcement. Chain of custody has only to with the the reliability of evidence and the possibility that it may have been tampered with or adulterated in some way as a result of the interruption in the custody of the party seeking to tender or rely upon it. So for example the police are at the scene of a crime and they take possession of a gun. they put it in the police locker. It goes missing and then it turns up. The evidence MAY be unreliable because someone could have changed fingerprints etc. That does not mean that the gun is not admissible evidence. it means that the weight attached to that piece of evidence may be discounted because it may no longer be reliable.
Ok. Let's tease this out a little. I think we can expand this discussion in a civilized way, because it's really a technical matter. Let's start with some base understandings. Do you agree with the following:

1. The FBI did not seize any servers in connection with the allegation that the DNC had been hacked.
2. The FBI relied upon analysis conducted by an IT firm employed by the DNC (Crowdstrike), and their analysis claimed to include a review of the relevant servers (hardware and software review). Crowdstrike started their investigation in April of 2016.
3. Servers that had hosted the information that had been extracted from the DNC continued to exist, initially, following the report submitted by the DNC contractor to the FBI in May of 2016.
4. The servers (apparently approximately 140 of them) were "decommissioned" by the DNC in June of 2016.
5. The DNC contractors claim to have imaged the relevant servers prior to "decommissioning" them.

Are we on the same page so far?
 

toguy5252

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Ok. Let's tease this out a little. I think we can expand this discussion in a civilized way, because it's really a technical matter. Let's start with some base understandings. Do you agree with the following:

1. The FBI did not seize any servers in connection with the allegation that the DNC had been hacked.
2. The FBI relied upon analysis conducted by an IT firm employed by the DNC (Crowdstrike), and their analysis claimed to include a review of the relevant servers (hardware and software review). Crowdstrike started their investigation in April of 2016.
3. Servers that had hosted the information that had been extracted from the DNC continued to exist, initially, following the report submitted by the DNC contractor to the FBI in May of 2016.
4. The servers (apparently approximately 140 of them) were "decommissioned" by the DNC in June of 2016.
5. The DNC contractors claim to have imaged the relevant servers prior to "decommissioning" them.

Are we on the same page so far?
But none of that has anything to to with chain of possession. In this context it could come up in onl;y 2 ways.

1. Police seize servers. Possession of the servers is interrupted. Police then regain possession. Police seek to tender servers in evidence. Chain is broken judge either admonishes himself or instucts jury that evidence may be unreliable.

2. Same scenario but DNC or Hillary seek to rely upon servers after their possession has been interrupted. Same admonition or charge.

By the way this kind of case would never be heard by a jury in Ontario.
 

Bud Plug

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But none of that has anything to to with chain of possession. In this context it could come up in onl;y 2 ways.

1. Police seize servers. Possession of the servers is interrupted. Police then regain possession. Police seek to tender servers in evidence. Chain is broken judge either admonishes himself or instucts jury that evidence may be unreliable.

2. Same scenario but DNC or Hillary seek to rely upon servers after their possession has been interrupted. Same admonition or charge.

By the way this kind of case would never be heard by a jury in Ontario.
Sorry, just trying to be clear. Do you agree with these 5 points? They aren't all the points I intend to raise with you. I just want to know if we agree on that much. Feel free to disagree if you think any of them are wrong.
 

Butler1000

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The arguments came from Alan Derchawitz.

But what does Harvard law Professor Know right....
 

toguy5252

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Sorry, just trying to be clear. Do you agree with these 5 points? They aren't all the points. I just want to know if we agree on that much. Feel free to disagree if you think any of them are wrong.
Based upon what I have read.

1. Agree
2. I am not sure they relied upon it and to what extent, if any they did, I have not read any suggestion that they relied upon it exclusively. There was lots of other evidence. How this evidence factored into final decision I have no idea.
3. Don't know.
4. I know that some number were destroyed. When and how many I do not know.
5. I think that is right.
 

Butler1000

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And further to butler's really stupid claims:



https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-missing-nor-a-server

Butler really thinks that the FBI should have taken in 140 cloud based servers and 180 desktops from one party in the middle of an election in order to get inferior evidence instead of making use of the most respected computer forensics team?
Really stupid.
As the DNC actually destroyed several of them in June 2016 i guess they weren't so important were they?

Why not hand over the originals?
 

toguy5252

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As the DNC actually destroyed several of them in June 2016 i guess they weren't so important were they?

Why not hand over the originals?
Other than in the mind of Nunes, Jordan and the rest of the Trump firewall what does that have to do with anything at all. Well of course unless you want to divert attention fronm the rel issues,
 

Butler1000

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Other than in the mind of Nunes, Jordan and the rest of the Trump firewall what does that have to do with anything at all. Well of course unless you want to divert attention fronm the rel issues,
It is my belief the findings of Crowd Strike are false. And refusal to allow access a cover up for an inside leak.

It's that simple.
 
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