I don't live in Toronto, but there are plenty of residential streets that have only have stop signs onto Queen or Dundas where parking is allowed on the main street. People ride/drive the way they practise.
Pedestrian punches cyclist in the face for running Queen’s Quay red light
- Thread starter explorerzip
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Your "illustrative" statistics aren't really all that helpful to the argument at hand.. I've been trying to find statistics online about this sorta thing, but there doesn't appear to be much out there.. So I don't know if anybody should take these numbers of yours with anything more than a grain of salt.
I did find the following article which i found interesting..
http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/57065/cyclists-almost-likely-injure-pedestrians-cars
Which include the following paragraph
Now, this article is based on information gathered in the UK, but I would guess that there COULD be similar statistics here..
Everybody has their own personal experiences (which, granted, aren't actually worth all that much).. I know I've personally experienced shit with other cyclists who insist on flying along cycle paths through parks (where many people ride with their small children).. One could only imagine the damage a 180 pound man would do (flying along at 30km/h) when he connects with a 40 pound 4 year old out for a ride with his parents..
I think the last thing we need is to loosen restrictions on cyclists behaviour..
Cute dog. Little peacemaker just waggin his tail looking for a sniff and a lick.
They should have sent him in for the G20.
They should have sent him in for the G20.
I cycle a lot of kms, and generally ride like a car (which is usually safest). However, do I ever ride on the sidewalk? Yeah, on roads with little or no clearance where I have been clipped by mirrors. I reduce my speed and give pedestrians the right of way. I always dismount when crossing, and resume on the road when needed. It is possible to do it safely, and is clearly the lesser of all evils on specific roads.
Are there asshole cyclists? For sure. However, they do not kill folks like car drivers do. Every driver on the 401 violates speed limits. Rolling stop signs. Rolling through red lights on a right turn. As a pedestrian and cyclist and car driver, I think it is funny how drivers think their shit does not stink. Cars have essentially taken over, and I deal with a lot of shitheads who think they can text and drive, or think the car has the right of way at all times. The basic rule is unless you make eye contact with the driver, assume they will run you over.
I get your indignation, but it ain't universal, and give me any infraction and drivers typically do it as well (save for the sidewalk thing
. I do not think it is ok. I am also all for enforcement, as soon as they enforce the speed limits and rules of the road for everyone. The cops do very little enforcement here, with very little street presence. If they crack down on cyclists, no doubt we should have less flagrant cycling on the road. If they crack down on drivers, they will save lives.
You forgot to mention no brakes. What kind of an idiot rides a bike on city streets with no brakes? Oh right, hipsters, I forgot!
I was driving along College near Spadina last week when I stopped behind the rear doors of a streetcar to let people off. A mid 20's woman in heels didn't see a cyclist flying up the bike lane until the very last second. She stopped suddenly to avoid being hit, twisted her ankle and went down hard spilling the contents of her bags all over the street. I put on my flashers as did the streetcar and we got out to help the woman to the curb and pick up her belongings. She was shaken and bruised but otherwise okay. The cyclist just kept on riding. I wanted to punch him in the face!
I'm a pedestrian, I take the TTC, ride a bike and drive a car. By far the worst offenders of the rules of the road are cyclists.
This is no better than James comment that cyclist are the worst. Many drivers, cyclists and pedestrians do dumb things like speeding, running through stop lights, not signaling, jaywalking, talking and texting, etc. That does not mean all or 100% of them do those things. There are asshole drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians, but they can choose not to be that way. People can choose to drive, cycle or walk with caution as well as not raising their voice or fists in rage, just to prove a point. You cannot use one or many cyclists, drivers or pedestrians bad behaviour as proof that all of them behave that way.
Most commentors on Metronews article don't seem to get the fact that punching someone in the face is wrong, not to mention illegal, and far worse than going through a red light. You could go to jail for that, as it's aggravated assault. If he had been struck by the bicycle, all he had to do was to note the bike's plate number, tell the cyclist to remain and call the police.
Seems like, according to the public, it's ok to punch someone to get even.
Seems like, according to the public, it's ok to punch someone to get even.
What a pointless and sad killing over people wanting to prove another wrong. At least the perp has a very long time in prison to reflect how right he is.
Totally agree but I think it's time for you to get rid of that gif of Judge Judy lol.
I don't know where you live but bikes in Toronto aren't licenced, they don't have plates nor are riders required to carry insurance. Good luck getting a cyclist to hang around until the cops show up. lol
Then take video and hand it over to the police when they arrive so they can lay a fleeing the scene charge.
Punching someone in the face is a serious criminal offense that is not justified by someone having violated a traffic law.
Seriously, failing to stop is what, a $150 fine and 3 points? Assault is jail time.
I almost had a close call with a cyclist riding without hands holding his smartphone. The stupid young guy rode right into my side of the bike lane and we had close to colliding. The worst part of it all, the guy's face after you swerved off, like "I didn't hit you". No apology just rolled his eyes.
This year, I've seen more people riding without their hands than before. This is ridiculous cause 90% don't even ride straight or take up the whole lane.
This year, I've seen more people riding without their hands than before. This is ridiculous cause 90% don't even ride straight or take up the whole lane.
I understand your point, but there is a de facto standard. When I am on the 401 and good conditions, everyone is doing 120. It is generally accepted stay at 120 or below and you will avoid a ticket in the core. Sure you get the occasional straggler, but the drivers as a whole are all in excess of the posted speed limit. The fast lane typically has folks in the 125-140 range, and the few dumb enough to cross into 150 territory. If you want a nice experiment, drive through Toronto at 9pm on the 401 doing 100km/h end to end. Let me know how it goes.
What is the defacto standard on following too closely? How many morons on the highway will sit five feet from your bumper at highway speed, and how is that less dangerous than a cyclist who runs a light with no traffic in sight? Or how about we discuss the zillion idiots texting while driving? Ok so drivers don't as routinely run lights, they commit a different set of violations.
I have even seen these in combination, in my rearview mirror I have seen the idiot on my bumper texting. Good thing I didn't brake!
Reality: cyclists break different laws than cars routinely do but following too closely, texting while driving, and other moving violations cars commit have killed FAR more people.
I have even seen these in combination, in my rearview mirror I have seen the idiot on my bumper texting. Good thing I didn't brake!
Reality: cyclists break different laws than cars routinely do but following too closely, texting while driving, and other moving violations cars commit have killed FAR more people.
Little guys have nothing to lose. If the tall guy responded it would look like he was picking on the little guy and the crowd would have turned on the tall guy. If the short guy knocked the tall guy down people would automatically think the tall guy was a bully. Either way the short guy can't lose and the tall guy can't win.
Perhaps it is a defacto standard, but it doesn't mean every driver follows it. There's no way anyone could observe enough cars, bikes, or pedestrians regardless of time of day to conclude that everyone is acting a certain way: going at a certain speed, weaving, texting, or if people stay below 120 to avoid a ticket in the core. Is it even possible to get anywhere close to 120 on The Gardiner or the DVP during the day with all the traffic? Maybe at 2 am on a Wednesday with no construction, but very unlikely during the day. Even if I conducted the experiment you suggested, I would not be able to know what the other drivers are doing let alone know fast they are going without a radar gun. My observations would only be a very thin sliver of time.I understand your point, but there is a de facto standard. When I am on the 401 and good conditions, everyone is doing 120. It is generally accepted stay at 120 or below and you will avoid a ticket in the core. Sure you get the occasional straggler, but the drivers as a whole are all in excess of the posted speed limit. The fast lane typically has folks in the 125-140 range, and the few dumb enough to cross into 150 territory. If you want a nice experiment, drive through Toronto at 9pm on the 401 doing 100km/h end to end. Let me know how it goes.
Traffic is always changing because it's caused by people so there's no practical way of gathering enough data to conclude anything substantial. So it is factually incorrect to say that all (or everyone) drivers, pedestrians or cyclists are the worst at obeying traffic laws based only on personal observations.
I read an article a while back which I did not keep so the following stats are strictly from memory.
Humans killed or injured by cars = 3,000
Cars injured or killed by pedestrians or cyclists = 0
Well, given de facto pretty much means "in fact", and represents the dominant position for the population, it can be a factually correct position. This does not have to equate to 100% of the population. In statistical terms, personal observations for driving actually equate to thousands of samples of a clustered population.
Anyway, I think we are splitting hairs. For me the bottom line is the priority should be "pedestrians > cyclists > cars", but drivers have pretty much dominated and get pissed at anyone in their way these days (whether the driver has right of way or not). People who text and drive really scare the crap out of me, and even with the heavy fines, it is all too common. As Fuji indicates, when you have people tailgating and texting it gets really scary.
