Our Educational System

[shakenbake]

...about that stuff. I heard about just about all of it (substitiute driving bus for hockey with driving her personal vehicle to take the kids who actually cared to thing like special educational events and high school selection night, or whatever it is called. The school certainly doesn't do anything extra to support the kids who want to do something extra...)

Leave at 3:15??? I wish she had so she could have gotten her ass over her quicker and be ass up / face down sooner...

I applaud your comittment to your profession. I wish that there were more teachers as yourself. Unfortunately, we see the ones who don't care, and they become the stereotypes.

I like your comment about your ex GF.

 

[Jade4u]

ha don't get me started on how stupid the schools are where bullies are concerned my one son who has never been in trouble a day in his life just last year witnessed the school bully beating the crap out of his younger brother if there were school supervisors around they were not close enough to protect my younger boy then. He ran over pulled the other boy off of him and laid the boots to him. When I heard of this over the phone all I got was there is zero tolerance for violence etc... that he should have just gone and go someone etc... ie... leave the asshat there to make my younger one all bloody and possibly killed who the hell knows. To top it off they both got only detentions for this and I feel to this day the one who was kicking my boy in the gut and head should have gotten much more and all I could tell my older boy is from my point of view he is a hero to step in and be willing to rescue someone (especially his own flesh and blood) as a mother I just thanked him because the way I think of it is if a woman were attacked on the street with this attitude no men would be willing to step in and help.


zero tolerance sometimes means just walk on by and leave it longer for the next guy to step in.

I ended up also telling my son next time I should just sue the school if it happens the same way exactly and he has to go get help and the injuries come worse.

 

[themexi]

Here is the reality. If the bully known as a troubled child, he is protected by the admin. The child who is picked upon and defends himself will get suspended. I have spent about 10 yrs as a child advocate representing students and their parents in this situation. Even when my partner, a lawyer, gets involved, it is always the same crap from the school board. Both students will be suspended, the bully stays at school usually in a contact room and has his lessons provided, the other child is sent home to do his suspension without work.

My advice is simple: if your child is being picked on at school teach him how to fight. Bullies only pick on people they now they can beat. Even if a bully wins the fight but is hurt in the process he is less likely to pick on that person again because he knows the person will fight back and he will get hurt again.

Schools do a really lousy job of stopping threats or violence. I have seen too many excellent children destroyed by the bullying that takes place in the school system.

Here is another fact that may shock you. I have dealt with many teachers who have been bullied at school...not by students but by other staff and administration. I would say that I have personally consulted on at least 100 of these cases.

I am so glad that my children are out of the school system, and they went to school in upper middle class areas.

Best way to deal with a "special troubled youth" bully is after school.

Find the little bastard some time later off school property, bring a bunch of buddies with masks & thug the fuck out of the kid. I don't mean bruises & a bloody nose either; BREAK bones & teeth. Leave permanent damage. If he's over 16 take his wallet & tell him you've his address & if he tells anyone you'll find him easier the next time & you might just kill is pet too.

Don't mention the specific kid he picked on to bring this hell on him. Just make it clear that the next time he "expresses his troubles" on anyone he will get it worse the next time. If/when he is stupid enough to do it again Follow through.

Reasoning with reasonable people works...... kids with defective software function better with occasional percussive maintenance. You are likely to say "Oh how could you do that to a kid? You're no better than a bully" My response would be A) He's not a "kid" when he attacks your child, he's a "threat". & B) Since the beginning of time it has been the parent's duty to do anything necessary to protect his own. Apparently the huge % of income going to the system is not only not enough, but counterproductive to that end. Life's about choices... you choose to defend your own, or you basiclly leave them to the predators.

 

[Toke]

I will soon be an educator. From my point of view (having spent countless hours with 'teachers') the problem is that too many individuals who are not interested in teaching are teachers. These people do the job for its security and benefits; rather than the job itself. I bet that most people here could apply to get their teaching degree and be admitted. Not to diminish the credentials of the members of this board, but to show that it is not about the best suitable candidate. I, for one, plan to be an educator who can provide the curriculum while teaching my students the know-how to deal with life in a way that they; respect others; become contributing members to society; become good life-partners; and are able to embrace and pass that knowledge on to generations to follow.

Yes, the current system is not perfect, but it is more a conclusion of 'who' is allowed to teach, rather than the initial premise of what teaching should be.

BTW, I am available to tutor!!!

 

[Tangwhich]

100% wrong

Teachers get paid over 26 weeks bi-weekly, they are salaried, the teacher who works 80 hours a week gets paid the same as the teacher who works 30 hours a week

I am not a teacher, but a close friend of mine is and she told me it's opitional. Get paid just while you work or have it spread over 26 pay periods a year.

 

[C Dick]

I hate the school system as much as anyone. But not all teachers are lazy and stupid. That is the problem with the system, is that it is really not a profession that should be unionized, it would be better if there could be incentives for good work, and punishments for bad work. Enforcing a no-consequences, everyone gets the same approach is ok on an assembly line where everyone does the same. But in teaching, there are the 30 hours a week, summers off, don't care bastards. But there are also teachers who really care, and work really hard, and it can be very draining and stressful for them.

Unfortunately, the system is set up so that the bad teacher and the good teacher must get the same pay and the same opportunities, management have no means of shaping up the bad apples. If principals were hired by parents, and could hire and incent their own teachers, it could work a lot better. Private schools with vouchers is the way to go.

 

[Cycleguy007]

I have a sister and a brother-in-law that are both teachers... (well former teachers). Here are my observations...

Upon graduation from teacher's college, most if not ALL teachers have the best of intentions (as did my sister and B-in-law). They have a yearning to teach, and to mold the youth of today into the adults of tomorrow. They are compassionate about their work, and are FULLY AWARE of the trials and tribulations of the job, as well as the perks! They take on coaching jobs, and volunteer for all sorts of extra curricular activities because of their love for their jobs and to help the children. This is the generalized but fairly accurate assessment of every teacher I have come in contact with over the years and there are MANY.

When they get their first teaching job, is where the problems start... they are FORCED to join the Teachers union- it is mandatory/ compulsory and no they can't opt out. Herein begins the problem. They soon learn that teaching is actually secondary to the job. Slowly but surely the union takes over that desire to help youth and mold them into the adults of tomorrow, and is replaced by the desire to get more pay for less work, until one day they get to retire with the second most lucrative pension package of the free world. (Politician's pensions are still better!).

The problem is not with the teachers attitude... it is the teachers union! That is the real cancer. I know this how? Reread the first line... where I said my sister and brother-in-law are FORMER teachers. Slowly over the years I have watched their attitude change... my sister was once LOVED by her students. She gave them everything she had! Coached volleyball teams, basketball teams, spoke about her students as if they were her own children! That slowly eroded over the years until she quit being a teacher and is now a full fledged member of the union's executive. She gets all the perks of being a teacher but none of the headaches and about double the salary! As for my brother in law? Pretty much the same story, but with a slightly different attitude. He used to coach the schools football teams and was actually very successful in turn, but the same thing happened and he is also higher up in the union's executive, and now he coaches little league football in his spare time.

Dealing with bullies? Well lets just say that is something they really don't wanna have to deal with. On the surface they preach zero tolerance and all that stuff, but really? They would rather just sweep that under the carpet and hope it goes away. For years my son was bullied, and every time I brought it to someone's attention, they would give me the standard, "yes Mr. So & so, we are aware of the problem and are looking into it blah, blah, blah, and really wouldn't do a dam thing about it. Other posters are correct- they "PROTECT" the bully and do very little if anything to SOLVE the problem. Their "idea" of solving the problem is to keep the issue quiet and contained! I finally dealt with the bully in my own way, because the school wasn't going to do a dam thing about it. (Don't worry, NO VIOLENCE was used, I am not a violent person, but as a father, I was obligated to come to my son's aid, so I did!)

Teaching our youth is a very noble career! I am the first to admit this. As a father of 3 teenagers, I know first hand what a handful they can be, and I couldn't imagine a whole classroom full of them! I have nothing but the utmost of respect for them! On the other hand, I have also seen first hand the cancerous effect the teachers union has had on virtually every teacher I know! The only way to fix this, is to cut the cancer out, and we all know THAT isn't going to happen anytime soon!

 

[dj1470]

It's called classroom management, and it is not difficult, once you set the rules.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shakenbake, you need to shakenbake your brain and senses!

Obviously you've never been in a grade 8 classroom as a supply teacher or at the start of the year or actually any time of the year.

 

[scouser1]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shakenbake, you need to shakenbake your brain and senses!

Obviously you've never been in a grade 8 classroom as a supply teacher or at the start of the year or actually any time of the year.

thank you dj I was waiting for someone to post a reply to that well either that or once my ribs stopped hurting from laughing so hard at it

 

[shakenbake]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shakenbake, you need to shakenbake your brain and senses!

Obviously you've never been in a grade 8 classroom as a supply teacher or at the start of the year or actually any time of the year.

Yes I have, and have the Provincial credentials to prove it.

There are teachers who do a great job of classroom management. Then, there are those who don't give a damned about what they are doing. Might you be one of the latter?

There are certainly a number of teachers out there who should NOT be teaching, like one of the teaching practicum associates I had to deal with, who was so into himself. Later on, when I taught full-time at university level, one of his former students and I laughed good and hard behind his back. Oh, yes, he left a lasting impression on all his students.

So, kindly go forth, multiply, ingest excement and expire with your presumptuous airs.

 

[RTRD]

I...

I applaud your comittment to your profession. I wish that there were more teachers as yourself. Unfortunately, we see the ones who don't care, and they become the stereotypes.

I like your comment about your ex GF.

...am not a teacher...all the comments were about her.

 

[RTRD]

This....

I am not a teacher, but a close friend of mine is and she told me it's opitional. Get paid just while you work or have it spread over 26 pay periods a year.

...is correct. You can apparently chose either to get paid for the 9 months or have it spread over the entire year. Most go for the later.

 

[Rylan]

Look - like any job out there, there is issues.

Some teachers suck ass. They don't care about the kids, the after school activities, nothing

Some teachers rock! They put in the extra time and effort, some on the clock, some off, but they are proud of being a teacher and want all the students to do well and do their best to ensure that.

Some Admins suck ass - protect the innocent and not help the trouble children OR protect the trouble child without teaching them anything about changing their ways and make the innocent children deal with zero tolerance policies.

Some Admins Rock! They find out the WHOLE story and deal with fairly and accordingly AND put the responsibility back on the parents who are too lazy to deal with their children's acting out.

It is all the same any where you go.

As a parent you have to stand up for your child's rights AND ensure that you are doing your job teaching them the right way to deal with life situations.

I know the staff and teachers at both of my kids schools on a first name basis. I make a point of getting involved and it has worked for me as a parent. The staff and teacher respect the fact that I am a hands on parent, I support the school when they are right, I am calm in my disagreements with them and will work on compromise. There is alot of give and take. Not enough parents do this. If they did, well you can all figure that out for yourself.

 

[j_anderson]

wrong
see my previous post

I went to Teacher's College a few years ago and for both my practicums each of my associate teacher's had 3 classes a day and one spare period which was over an hour long.
And guess what they usually did during their spare?...have coffee, relax, read the newspaper, socialize with other staff...it was basically like an additional lunch break.
After teacher's college I was supply teaching within the TDSB and eventually got an LTO position that lasted for a year. When I was supply teaching and during the LTO position, it was 3 classes a day and one spare period. So I'm sure I'm right, unless things have changed since I've gone back to school.

 

[dirkd101]

Wow, I didn't realize my venting would bring about such a discussion.

Some very good points are being raised here and I just want to make it clear that I am not against teachers, just the lazy ones.

My oldest was defending a friend from a known school yard bully. I have told that violence is not the means to an end, but when confronted by a couple of neighbourhood bullies years past, I taught him that these types only pick on the meek. That said, when they tried to pick on him again, they were taught a lesson and as I told him, they would not go to their parents over the situation and they have never touched him again. I applaud him for sticking up for his friend and will stand by him in cases such as this.

The school systems take is you let the bully lay a beating and then report it. While the bully says, if you tell anyone you'll get it worse next time??? A little confusing for a child to comprehend, tell and expect another beating or keep it quiet and hope nothing happens again.

Bullies search for victims and our school system promotes being a victim by not supporting those who defend themselves or others in need of help.

 

[RTRD]

This....

I know the staff and teachers at both of my kids schools on a first name basis. I make a point of getting involved and it has worked for me as a parent. The staff and teacher respect the fact that I am a hands on parent, I support the school when they are right, I am calm in my disagreements with them and will work on compromise. There is alot of give and take. Not enough parents do this. If they did, well you can all figure that out for yourself.

I am told is the case as well....that teachers would REALLY appreciate it if the parents were more involved, so that they felt like there was a TEAM effort being applied to the education of THEIR child.

Teachers don't even mind when parents call them on their shit (respectfully and with cause). That is much better than parents who are absent entirely (I am told)

 

[dj1470]

Wow, I didn't realize my venting would bring about such a discussion.

Always does here on terb.

Discussions about teachers usually happen in Sept and especially June when all the bitter people who had bad experiences in school vent their frustration about their lives having only 1-2 weeks vacation per year and dump all over the teaching profession. The usual target is the time off in the summer.

 

[dj1470]

I went to Teacher's College a few years ago and for both my practicums each of my associate teacher's had 3 classes a day and one spare period which was over an hour long.
And guess what they usually did during their spare?...have coffee, relax, read the newspaper, socialize with other staff...it was basically like an additional lunch break.

New collective bargaining in 2007. ALL high school teachers must teach an extra 1/2 course over the year bringing their total to 6.5/8 per year or 2 semesters. This brought their planning times down to 0 over those 10 weeks they are teaching through all 4 peiods in the high school day. All the other time of the year they get their period off for planning.

After teacher's college I was supply teaching within the TDSB and eventually got an LTO position that lasted for a year. When I was supply teaching and during the LTO position, it was 3 classes a day and one spare period.

Permenent positions are different. In your supplying or long term occasional you are at the schedule mercy of the teacher you are replacing either for the day, week, maternity leave, year, whatever. If you LTO for example when that teacher you are covering HAS the 1/2 course for those 10 weeks then you are SOL on planning time. Otherwise, you get it.

So I'm sure I'm right, unless things have changed since I've gone back to school.

Yes, they change after every collective bargaining agreement usually every 3-4 years.

 

[dj1470]

Yes I have, and have the Provincial credentials to prove it.

Well good for you!

There are teachers who do a great job of classroom management.

Agreed.

Then, there are those who don't give a damned about what they are doing. Might you be one of the latter?

No, I just live in the real world when real kids have real problems in my classroom. For the most part the kids are well behaved. There are those days however when they have their issues and classroom management goes right out the window. It then settles down and life continues much like it does throughout the rest of the parts of your life.

There are certainly a number of teachers out there who should NOT be teaching, like one of the teaching practicum associates I had to deal with, who was so into himself. Later on, when I taught full-time at university level, one of his former students and I laughed good and hard behind his back. Oh, yes, he left a lasting impression on all his students.

You teach at university? Have you ever set foot into a elementary or high school? IOr do you just spout from your college ivory tower? Where everything runs like clockwork because all the students actually want to be there. Unlike a high school where some students are there, for example, to just sell their drugs or have GeorgiaHomeBoy parties with unsuspecting girls?

So, kindly go forth, multiply, ingest excement and expire with your presumptuous airs.

No need to visit the thesaurus there Shakespeare to prove how more intelligent you are. We get it. YOU HAVE THE PROVINCIAL CREDENTIALS!!!

 

[dj1470]

I am told is the case as well....that teachers would REALLY appreciate it if the parents were more involved, so that they felt like there was a TEAM effort being applied to the education of THEIR child.

Teachers don't even mind when parents call them on their shit (respectfully and with cause). That is much better than parents who are absent entirely (I am told)

100% the truth. I wish more would. Then there might actually be dialogue for the betterment of the child.