Ottawa scene

[McKenna King]

What's needed, is something along the same lines as uber. Let me explain, and this is all just theoretical: much in the same way that Uber gutted Ottawa's taxi industry, technology is the answer. What you would need would be a server based outside of those countries that Canada has certain treaties with, it would need to be protected and hidden much in the way the deeper areas of the net are hidden and only accessible via an onion router. Each member would use a vpn and a randomly changing access key. There would a central pillar to the structure. This pillar would serve as the body that vets providers and clients. Clients would access info about providers via separate semi-autonomous sites/servers. You'd need a drop gate that could break those servers off should need arise. The central pillar would serve as a conduit for both providers and clients and have access to Air-b-n-b's. Everything's there already, it just needs to be pulled together. ....just a thought.

As someone who works as a web developer and utilizes offshore hosting for the security of the SW websites I develop, unfortunately what you’re proposing above still wouldn’t be feasible or secure from being shut down by local LE etc.
Sure it’s great to have VPNs and offshore hosting. But that only goes so far to protect your online presence.
The moment something like what you suggest becomes a physical reality, operating to facilitate in person connections, it’s at risk of being shut down.

The way the laws are written, sex workers can be charged for operating shared spaces (incalls) or in some cases even sharing resources or helping to market and promote each other.
It’s an extremely fine line that many of us tread to play within the grey areas of how the current Bill is written.

 

[McKenna King]

Its really only Toronto and Montreal with an agency scene. QC has a couple, there are none in the prairies I've seen and nothing in BC or the east coast.
The north I don't really know. I'm sure you're probably way more aware than I am, though.

Is that really the choice of the local enforcement? Cuz its really quite a difference in the safety of the scene without agencies.
Though is legalized better? I would worry that making it legal also makes it more public and then that would publicly stigmatize it even more, hurting business.
I only have the view of the hobbiest, but from my view, Toronto and Montreal are two of the best places, both for safety and the more trustworthy options.

Agencies seem to provide a good filter, from helping the sw's by watching and filtering customers and helping the customers by watching the sw's and having it run on schedule.

Most sex workers are in favour of decriminalization, not legalization. Legalization would impose so many restrictions and regulations on the industry. I don’t think clients would be benefit from legalization in any way either.
And as soon as the government legalizes something, they’re now making a profit off of our labor. Hell no. I pay enough in taxes, and still don’t see them paying for my insulin or other medical expenses

 

[diib]

I fully agree with all the above.
She pretty much summed up the situation in Ottawa.
I wish our line of work would be legalized & not be such a big taboo …
It makes both clients & provider’s life over complicated to have to hide & find ways to connect safely. It’s annoying and time consuming..

Nah..@alison_xox
U don't want it to be legalized... Do not let Justin see what's in your pocket!
Cheers

 

[Alison_xox]

Nah..@alison_xox
U don't want it to be legalized... Do not let Justin see what's in your pocket!
Cheers

Hahaha !
The gouv would definitely over tax us on that one…
-The Screening tax
-The fluids tax
-The orgasm tax
-The boner tax

 

[Frankfooter]

Most sex workers are in favour of decriminalization, not legalization. Legalization would impose so many restrictions and regulations on the industry. I don’t think clients would be benefit from legalization in any way either.
And as soon as the government legalizes something, they’re now making a profit off of our labor. Hell no. I pay enough in taxes, and still don’t see them paying for my insulin or other medical expenses

Its pretty close to decriminalized right now, with laws that are generally not enforced unless there are suspicions of human trafficking.
Does Ottawa have a history of agencies that were shut down? I'm not sure I've heard of them being shut elsewhere in Canada, but that's probably outside of my news circle anyways.

 

[johnnyonthespot]

Its pretty close to decriminalized right now, with laws that are generally not enforced unless there are suspicions of human trafficking.
Does Ottawa have a history of agencies that were shut down? I'm not sure I've heard of them being shut elsewhere in Canada, but that's probably outside of my news circle anyways.

Toronto had at least one shut down several years back called Moonwaiting, but that was a money laundering/human trafficking situation more than it was about the escorting itself.

 

[Frankfooter]

Toronto had at least one shut down several years back called Moonwaiting, but that was a money laundering/human trafficking situation more than it was about the escorting itself.

Which is exactly what they should be policing.

 

[rideout]

Sadly places like PK are a time of the past

Due to the current laws around sex word & bilaws in Ottawa there is no possibility of “legally” owning an agency here. Also with the very high competition in Ottawa any place would get flagged and shut down pretty quickly

Just legally & logistically it’s almost impossible here.

Why can't Ottawa have agencies when EVERY city across this expansive land (and some towns) have them? Sad for Ottawa but I just go to Montreal where there are a dozen+ fantastic agencies using great incalls of various types, zero guessing to services offered with gorgeous gals and its less expensive than our Spas.

 

[westcityside]

I would love a sex club honestly
Coffee shop with a side of kink vibe


I'm a member of a couple in different cities and I truly wish Ottawa had a place like that


Also more provider socials where all of us can meet & network with each other! Unless we are friends already, have mutuals or work with a spa or OIC I feel there is really a lack of community

Are you familiar with Lula Blue in Calgary? She has a sw network community going in Calgary

 

[Alison_xox]

I would love a sex club honestly
Coffee shop with a side of kink vibe


I'm a member of a couple in different cities and I truly wish Ottawa had a place like that


Also more provider socials where all of us can meet & network with each other! Unless we are friends already, have mutuals or work with a spa or OIC I feel there is really a lack of community

I’d love to open a naughty coffee shop with you , but we would never work & always be naked. It wouldn’t be good business…

 

[johnnyonthespot]

I’d love to open a naughty coffee shop with you , but we would never work & always be naked. It wouldn’t be good business…

Naked and hot coffee sounds like a dangerous combination. You ladies naked all the time sounds even more dangerous, but for different reasons…

 

[NadiaLovechanko]

I beg to differ. It WOULD be good business just hard to explain to the licensing authorities and the police.

They have bikini baristas in the states…

We are just more free the nipple up here

 

[Alison_xox]

They have bikini baristas in the states…

We are just more free the nipple up here

I love your spirit

 

[PointyP]

Oh hey, I thought I pipe in... 2nd time poster, long time lurker, thus giving a disclaimer...

There was a somewhat related example with public place smoking laws a decade ago in Smith falls, I was reading an article, full details escape me, but legally it goes:

It was basically a bar (business entity) with regular clientele, displeased that they can't smoke inside or on the patio anymore, but then they converted the place to membership-association type, therefore the business act didn't apply, but the Financials of the place was intact. And it allowed them to smoke

It has to be non-profit, membership fees and services decoupled, as in drinks amenities etc... you just pay your monthly fee.

Obviously, there would be verifications, who is the club so to speak, with NDAs all around, million $ penalties etc... so that what happens in fight club, stays in fight club , without actual fighting taking place.

But that would be the legal key, decoupling fees for services.

It would provide for better system, as in taking out the guess work (annoying for both sides), as per allison_xox above, and frankly, feeling comfortable both ways, and taking much less risk, for us customers and SPs. Half of us have family lives, so at least i cant afford ad hoc screening, as much as I would like to see you great ladys. I understand your reasons for them, nonetheless. But this would take care of that.

SPs could benefit, given enough people in the club, that they can have stable clientele, and not worry about ups and downs of being self employed, and not have to up or lower price for their services... you get controlled volume, but no derogation of quality...

Fees should be distributed accordingly, but as mentioned not direct; then its 2 people(s, haha) having fun. From I understand sps are legal to provide, punters are not legal to obtain, including gifts in kind, as in presents; Even sp providing service hosting, worse at a business place like a hotel, is technically not in the clear.... but not to get side tracked...

Where? Heh the magical question... the only thing I can think off, to keep it cost effective is one of the lovely ladies place or maybe one of our single friends, don't know... the payment of that would be the monthly cost of the place, in my mind...

Just a food for thought, thinking outloud kinda... it would take some work, buy I think not exceedingly impossible, but I might be off or wrong. Feel free to chime in.

 

[McKenna King]

Oh hey, I thought I pipe in... 2nd time poster, long time lurker, thus giving a disclaimer...

There was a somewhat related example with public place smoking laws a decade ago in Smith falls, I was reading an article, full details escape me, but legally it goes:

It was basically a bar (business entity) with regular clientele, displeased that they can't smoke inside or on the patio anymore, but then they converted the place to membership-association type, therefore the business act didn't apply, but the Financials of the place was intact. And it allowed them to smoke

It has to be non-profit, membership fees and services decoupled, as in drinks amenities etc... you just pay your monthly fee.

Obviously, there would be verifications, who is the club so to speak, with NDAs all around, million $ penalties etc... so that what happens in fight club, stays in fight club , without actual fighting taking place.

But that would be the legal key, decoupling fees for services.

It would provide for better system, as in taking out the guess work (annoying for both sides), as per allison_xox above, and frankly, feeling comfortable both ways, and taking much less risk, for us customers and SPs. Half of us have family lives, so at least i cant afford ad hoc screening, as much as I would like to see you great ladys. I understand your reasons for them, nonetheless. But this would take care of that.

SPs could benefit, given enough people in the club, that they can have stable clientele, and not worry about ups and downs of being self employed, and not have to up or lower price for their services... you get controlled volume, but no derogation of quality...

Fees should be distributed accordingly, but as mentioned not direct; then its 2 people(s, haha) having fun. From I understand sps are legal to provide, punters are not legal to obtain, including gifts in kind, as in presents; Even sp providing service hosting, worse at a business place like a hotel, is technically not in the clear.... but not to get side tracked...

Where? Heh the magical question... the only thing I can think off, to keep it cost effective is one of the lovely ladies place or maybe one of our single friends, don't know... the payment of that would be the monthly cost of the place, in my mind...

Just a food for thought, thinking outloud kinda... it would take some work, buy I think not exceedingly impossible, but I might be off or wrong. Feel free to chime in.

So in a nutshell, what you described above is also illegal. And wouldn’t be working through any loopholes in the current law.
Most Spas operate the way they currently do in order to play within the very loosely defined laws in Bill C36. Some spas aren’t really playing within those lines at all, because some of them require the client to pay the full fee (door fee + MA rate) up front.

The structure you’re suggesting would also create a nightmare of abuses to happen.
Anytime you introduce a 3rd party who holds financial power over a provider, that provider now loses their autonomy to make decisions regarding their body or the services they are willing to provide.

If you want to dig deeper into the legalities here I suggest you read through Bill C36 and also my blog post that touches on the topic you just mentioned.
https://www.onlymckenna.com/post/exploitation-erotic-massage-industry

 

[HoopyFrood]

Long time listener, very rare caller, and just want to say that I've enjoyed/appreciated this thread very much. Especially sincere thanks to the SPs that have engaged, a lot of interesting viewpoints on the Ottawa scene!

 

[PointyP]

Thank you McKenna, I take your point. Also if they do charge as you described, then yes that's legally dumb (not an MP expert, nor have a been to one; precisely because I don't want to pay no one but the provider)

That said, it could also be described as a client convenience, given that not everyone pays cash, MAs don't have a debit machine lugging around. I'm pretty sure they ding for that anyway...

Also, golf courses and similar establoshments charge a yearly fee, without describing what the fee is for to the client. So I guess the labeling of the charges matters.

And since MPs operate within the gray, however miniscule, of bill c36 (which I have read), let's not forget that they are private member clubs, despite colloquially called MPs. For the legal reasons. The 10$ makes you a member, which changes the legal entity.

And then, however thin all that is, as any good lawyer should tell you, it's not whats legal or what you know, it's what can be proven in court...

I don't dismiss your point on abuses; I've seen enough providers, and heard enough uncomfortable, bad, terrible, horrific stories that raise my hair; from physical to monetary. And yes, you absolutely are right about retaining autonomy. Presumably if the parties would agree to a system such as this, there will be well defined boundaries, and you ultimately choose to participate or not.

All the above would have to be SP run to ensure some trust. Especially due to your experiences and being on the bad end of things. Trust between unknown, checks out, solid parties is needlessly fickle, a yet we all have interact somehow, exchange money, properly and as agreed, in everyday life. There's escrow, which could simply mean another SP that you trust or any other acceptable form.

That said, this also doesn't have to be club, membership, organization; it could simply be per event, however much there is appetite and will for it. And then collect "party" fees, not unlike similar events.

All I guess, this is to say is it impossible, legally? Not entirely so, and no different and complicated than other under the table activities that happen in society every day.

Maybe it's me being a hippie in my head, to date myself, but nonetheless in reality I'm a practical centrist.

 

[@madelineklaire]

I appreciate everyone's contributions! A special thanks to all the knowledgeable providers for sharing their expertise; I have gained a great deal from this discussion and am truly grateful for it

 

[Hughlongly]

I appreciate everyone's contributions! A special thanks to all the knowledgeable providers for sharing their expertise; I have gained a great deal from this discussion and am truly grateful for it

One final thought Madeline, and I think everyone who has contributed will agree on this: we need a way for both providers and clients to exist/connect/continue without the antiquated moral/legal judgement in a safe space at a wage that is fair and equitable. That's what we need. On behalf of the long time clients, I'd like to thank each and every provider who has ever seen us. Without you, the world would be a colder, darker place. Thank you.

 

[ricco_o]

I would love a sex club honestly
Coffee shop with a side of kink vibe


I'm a member of a couple in different cities and I truly wish Ottawa had a place like that


Also more provider socials where all of us can meet & network with each other! Unless we are friends already, have mutuals or work with a spa or OIC I feel there is really a lack of community

I would kill for a comparable version of Oasis here