Ontario Basic Income Pilot: Good Riddance...

[JohnLarue]

My issue with scraping the Basic Income is that it was done to those on disability. They are not sitting around lazy. They have no way to get a job while many on ODSP will tell they would like to work. There are many who do try to work as well. Claim their little income and do things the right way.

They need a little more help in my opinion. It is not right that those with a disability are purposely left in poverty.

The OW systems - don't change it to give basic income. I get that and I support that.

If you can work and can't pay your Hydro bill because your welly cheque is not enough. Tough titties.

But if you have to choose between food and heating your home, or even paying that rent for the home, and you can't go work because you are disabled {as defined by ODSP - which is a disablity lasting a more then a year and one that denies you the ablity to work. And is re-evaulated based on the disabilty and when/if it will be fixed.} then I think that is wrong and needs to be properly addressed.

I mean it was not until just a few years ago that a fund was set up so those with serious disabilities can pay into an RDSP {similar to an RRSP} so they can have more money then just OAS when they turn 65. These people don't have penisions, don't have CPP, don't have anything to fall back on. Thanks to the PC member Jim Flaherty, they have that.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...ans-can-fulfill-their-dreams/article18037166/

Too bad Granny wynn borrowed and spent the provinces debt capacity making this program or any derivation a ridiculous ask
Had the provinces debt been manage properly for the past 15 years , 30 if you want to see when the real issue began (bob Rea) some additional help for the disabled could be supported by all parties
There is cost for everything

 

[Jasmine Raine]

Too bad Granny wynn borrowed and spent the provinces debt capacity making this program or any derivation a ridiculous ask
Had the provinces debt been manage properly for the past 15 years , 30 if you want to see when the real issue began (bob Rea) some additional help for the disabled could be supported by all parties
There is cost for everything

This is true. But then again there is aid/money/solders/food/etc sent to other countries that could have gone to our own people, to our homeless, to our disabled, etc.

I think more than racking up debt, taking care of your own home first is an important step that is often overlooked as well.

Now to be clear, I am all for giving aid. But does it have to be so many BILLIONS of dollars? Can't it just be thousands or even millions? Then maybe some of the money can stay in Canada to help Canadians. It is not just a provincal thing, it is country wide thing.

 

[Frankfooter]

A structural deficit is a result of excessive spending stupid, particularly ongoing permanent government hires
Impossible to eliminate if you spending to stimulate the economy

Idiot.
That is exactly what Portugal is doing, as I showed you.

Mr. Harper controlled costs right up until the financial crisis . Than he applied stimulus when it was needed.
That is sound managment

Harper left us with higher deficits and debt.
Only now under Trudeau are deficits going down, yet here you are still backing the wrong party, the one that failed at doing what you want and instead you're attacking the one that is bringing down the debt.

Now answer these questions

Please explain how the debt is reduced when one borrows persistently
Show us how this a real plan which does not ignore debt out of convience
please indicate exactly when the IMF initiated and forced portugal's govt to continue to run deficits and continue to borrow ?

1) google the word 'investment' and then sit still for about an hour and try to understand how government spending, even if its from borrowing, could be an 'investment' or 'stimulus' just like your hero Harper tried to do after 2008.
2) I did, but here it is again for you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/22/business/portugal-economy-austerity.html
3) 2010-2014 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–14_Portuguese_financial_crisis
And now?

Portugal to pay off ‘most expensive’ part of IMF bailout loan

http://www.theportugalnews.com/news...most-expensive-part-of-imf-bailout-loan/44579

Face it larue.
Your ideas are failures.
They've been tried again and again and failed every time.

The closest you've come to finding an example has been the liberal gov't of Paul Martin, yet you are so stupid you won't back the only party that came close to doing what you want.

Check this out, larue.
https://qz.com/1258097/the-us-is-a-major-outlier-among-advanced-economies-in-one-big-scary-way/

The US is doing what you want, lowering taxes on corporations and the rich and where is their debt headed?
Note that two of the countries with the largest decreases in their deficit are Portugal and yes, Canada, under the liberal party.
You're an idiot who is backing the wrong party.

 

[JohnLarue]

Idiot.

Yes you are

That is exactly what Portugal is doing, as I showed you.

they are borrowing to spend to eliminate the debt?
And you think this is the way to go?
You proved it, you are an idiot

Harper left us with higher deficits and debt.

Oh boy, just ignore the biggest financial crs in 80 years
if there was ever a time to borrow that was it
God you are stupid

Only now under Trudeau are deficits going down, yet here you are still backing the wrong party, the one that failed at doing what you want and instead you're attacking the one that is bringing down the debt.

#1. the books were in balance when Justin took office & he immediately starting spending and growing the defict
# 2. Trudeau has not reduced the debt stupid, he has increased it

Back Justin Trudeau as the best choice to reduce the government debt???
Not likely
All he has done is apologize to everyone , write cheques , march in gay parades & piss off the American NAFTA negotiators, the filipinos, the chinese, the Indians & now the saudis
He thinks the budget will balance itself is foolishly trying to burden with the driver of our economy "small business" with higher taxes

this idiot will be a one term joke & a lesson in the history books on how not to government
The one redeeming factor about Justin Trudeau as PM is that "at least he is not NDP"

1) google the word 'investment' and then sit still for about an hour and try to understand how government spending, even if its from borrowing, could be an 'investment' or 'stimulus' just like your hero Harper tried to do after 2008.

Look moron, borrowing to build assets like infrastructure is sensible
Borrowing to cover operating costs is plain stupid & irresponsible

2) I did, but here it is again for you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/22/business/portugal-economy-austerity.html
3) 2010-2014 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–14_Portuguese_financial_crisis
And now?

And now they have even more debt
How stupid are you??

IT IS A DEBT problem & they have increased their debt, you think that deserves a gold star???

[

url]http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-to-pay-off-most-expensive-part-of-imf-bailout-loan/44579[/url]

Face it larue.
Your ideas are failures.
They've been tried again and again and failed every time.

Free enterprise & small govt has worked just fine in North America
Hows it going in Venezuela?

The closest you've come to finding an example has been the liberal gov't of Paul Martin, yet you are so stupid you won't back the only party that came close to doing what you want.

Check this out, larue.
https://qz.com/1258097/the-us-is-a-major-outlier-among-advanced-economies-in-one-big-scary-way/

you asked for an example & I ave you one
Now you find fault because I do not support the same party despite the passage of 25-30 years & a biggest step left by Justin Trudeau
\\you truly are an idiot

The US is doing what you want, lowering taxes on corporations and the rich and where is their debt headed?

Again you will have to ask Trump about that
he was foolish to cut taxes without offsetting cost cuts as the US economy did not require that extra stimulus

Note that two of the countries with the largest decreases in their deficit are Portugal and yes, Canada, under the liberal party.

note that reducing your defect is not the same thing as eliminating debt
Get back to us when Portugal has wrestled the debt down to sustainable levels (60% of GDP)
That is not going ti happen in your lifetime, as they continue to borrow

You're an idiot who is backing the wrong party.

Why are you so stupid that you can not recognise the current liberals & the NDP are incapable of controlling costs

Now answer these questions

Please explain how the debt is reduced when one borrows persistently
Show us how this a real plan which does not ignore debt out of convience
please indicate exactly when the IMF initiated and forced portugal's govt to continue to run deficits and continue to borrow ?

you can not explain what you do not understand or ignore

 

[JohnLarue]

This is true. But then again there is aid/money/solders/food/etc sent to other countries that could have gone to our own people, to our homeless, to our disabled, etc.

I think more than racking up debt, taking care of your own home first is an important step that is often overlooked as well.

Now to be clear, I am all for giving aid. But does it have to be so many BILLIONS of dollars? Can't it just be thousands or even millions? Then maybe some of the money can stay in Canada to help Canadians. It is not just a provincal thing, it is country wide thing.

Foreign aid is a federal expenditure
Ontario has no control over that
Justin is the man you would have to look to to reallocate foreign aid & he will never do that as he is quite concerned about his image as an example for others to follow
The decision to cut this program was driven by the unmanageable debt the provincial liberals have accumated

 

[Boober69]

This is true. But then again there is aid/money/solders/food/etc sent to other countries that could have gone to our own people, to our homeless, to our disabled, etc.

I think more than racking up debt, taking care of your own home first is an important step that is often overlooked as well.

Now to be clear, I am all for giving aid. But does it have to be so many BILLIONS of dollars? Can't it just be thousands or even millions? Then maybe some of the money can stay in Canada to help Canadians. It is not just a provincal thing, it is country wide thing.

As a nation, we give out a lot of money in aid, then take in immigrants & refugees we can't fully support. I'm all for refugees and immigrants, but not at the expense of taking care of our own citizens first. We provide China and India with a lot of business, but they don't take in refugees.
The leftists believe we have too many rich people here that can afford to pay for everyone else. That's their solution: use other people's money to fix everyone else's problem. And if you don't, then you're a racist.

e.g. When people here can't afford to pay their hydro bills and have to decide between food and electricity, the solution is not having everyone else give them more money, the solution is to lower the cost of hydro so there's more money to spend on other things.

 

[Frankfooter]

IT IS A DEBT problem & they have increased their debt, you think that deserves a gold star???

Yes, they deserve a gold star.
They are reducing their deficit and stand to turn a surplus where they will be able to pay off their debt.
They have already paid off most of their IMF debt.
Which shows that you are as usual wrong.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news...most-expensive-part-of-imf-bailout-loan/44579

Compare that to the US, which is lowering taxes on the rich and services at the same time, as you keep calling for.
The US is increc
Face it larue, you're really a liberal, you just aren't smart enough to understand it.
Only the liberal party of Canada has ever come close to doing what you prescribe successfully.

Instead you keep pushing for lower taxes and services, or austerity.
A program that has failed every time.

 

[JohnLarue]

Yes, they deserve a gold star.
They are reducing their deficit and stand to turn a surplus where they will be able to pay off their debt.
They have already paid off most of their IMF debt.
Which shows that you are as usual wrong.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news...most-expensive-part-of-imf-bailout-loan/44579

Compare that to the US, which is lowering taxes on the rich and services at the same time, as you keep calling for.
The US is increc
Face it larue, you're really a liberal, you just aren't smart enough to understand it.
Only the liberal party of Canada has ever come close to doing what you prescribe successfully.

Instead you keep pushing for lower taxes and services, or austerity.
A program that has failed every time.

\you are an idiot & have taken this thread off topic

btw
By the way , who you owe the money to is not relevant

They have already paid off most of their IMF debt.

Their debt load has increased so if they don't owe IMF as much, they owe someone else more

Another example of you not understanding what you say

Now explain to us again how portugal's finances are relevant to the scrapped Ontario Basic Income program?
Oh yeah, because portugal has lowered its deficit, but increased its debt, you feel socialist financing is the only viable system and therefore you want Ont to borrow Billions more to pay people for not working,
That's it

That is just plain comical

 

[Jasmine Raine]

Foreign aid is a federal expenditure
Ontario has no control over that
Justin is the man you would have to look to to reallocate foreign aid & he will never do that as he is quite concerned about his image as an example for others to follow
The decision to cut this program was driven by the unmanageable debt the provincial liberals have accumated

Right. It is.

Provinces also get Federal money that is considered expenditures to, right? And the Federal Government pays out money to the provinces for all sorts of things. And they are budgeted individually.

Sooooooooo one would think they could give money they send out, to our provinces instead for a budget that would be used to help homelessness, poverty, etc.

Didn't think it was that difficult to understand. Maybe I should have been more clear????

 

[oldjones]

Sometime no amount of clarity is enough. I'd say you were more than adequate on that score. And remarkable for your politeness.

 

[JohnLarue]

Right. It is.

Provinces also get Federal money that is considered expenditures to, right?

No
Provinces get transfer payments from the federal govt. The amount of which he provinces have no control over

And the Federal Government pays out money to the provinces for all sorts of things. And they are budgeted individually.

Sooooooooo one would think they could give money they send out, to our provinces instead for a budget that would be used to help homelessness, poverty, etc.

Didn't think it was that difficult to understand. Maybe I should have been more clear????

So no matter how you slice it , it is the federal government who would have to re-allocate money from foreign aid to poverty, as foreign aid is a federal expenditure, which the provinces have no control over
Justin is the man you would have to look to to reallocate foreign aid & he will never do that.
He is quite concerned about his image as a bad example for others to follow.
So now way such a re-allocation is going to happen

 

[Jasmine Raine]

After reading this, I am cool with them scraping the project.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...on-with-humansofbasicincome-photo-series.html

Using the money to open business, to go on vacation, etc.

People who can work, clearly who are working are getting this - um nope. Sorry.

 

[Frankfooter]

Their debt load has increased so if they don't owe IMF as much, they owe someone else more

Another example of you not understanding what you say

Now explain to us again how portugal's finances are relevant to the scrapped Ontario Basic Income program?
Oh yeah, because portugal has lowered its deficit, but increased its debt,

I know its hard for you to understand, larue, but you need to lower your deficit in order to start running a surplus so you can pay off your debt.
Or perhaps you'd like to explain to us your plan for countries to pay off their debt while running a deficit at the same time.

Portugal is relevant to this discussion as it shows that the policies you keep backing, Austerity, have failed every single time yet you keep backing them.
The answer is not cutting social services but instead lowering the divide between rich and poor through progressive taxation.
It may also even be cheaper to implement the basic income plan vs running welfare and social services administration.
But we'll never know since Ford cancelled it before we found out.

 

[Frankfooter]

After reading this, I am cool with them scraping the project.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...on-with-humansofbasicincome-photo-series.html

Using the money to open business, to go on vacation, etc.

People who can work, clearly who are working are getting this - um nope. Sorry.

Helping people start businesses is a good way to help them start making enough money that they wouldn't qualify for the basic income.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

Helping people start businesses is a good way to help them start making enough money that they wouldn't qualify for the basic income.

Ya sorry, I would rather a basic income go to the person who can't work due to life long medical reasons.

They should have started with those who qualify for the CRAs DTC. That is a strict credit to be able to get and only for those who are truly incapable of work.

Why do people who can work deserve a basic income while others who can't work, have the same property issue? Makes no sense to me

 

[Frankfooter]

Ya sorry, I would rather a basic income go to the person who can't work due to life long medical reasons.

They should have started with those who qualify for the CRAs DTC. That is a strict credit to be able to get and only for those who are truly incapable of work.

Why do people who can work deserve a basic income while others who can't work, have the same property issue? Makes no sense to me

The point was to see what it would do for the general populace. If you were on it and made $34,000 a year you wouldn't get anything from the government.

Following a tax credit model, the Ontario Basic Income Pilot will ensure that participants receive up to:

$16,989 per year for a single person, less 50% of any earned income
$24,027 per year for a couple, less 50% of any earned income