Ontario Basic Income Pilot: Good Riddance...

[nottyboi]

Assess & refine...on who's dime?

I have to pay for someone who decides to quit their job so they can milk the system and perform puppet shows or whatever they think is the way they want to "work"?

You don't pay for it, you may pay a fraction of a penny. But why are you more upset about that then the much higher cost of jailing, treating and housing poor people. That is already being paid for.

 

[JohnLarue]

Programs like these are necessary. Whether you like it or not, the world economy is changing rapidly and drastically. It's anticipated that within the next 50 years, every single job will be done better by a machine than by a human - literally everything from manual labour to brain surgery to writing novels. The only way any individual will have any money to spend on anything is if the government creates some sort of distribution of wealth. And the rich will go along with it because it's the only way anyone will be able to buy their goods/services.

If you're an old fart who's going to be dead in 20 years, maybe not a big deal. But for your kids and grandkids and all future generations, socialism on a mass scale is going to become the only way forward. Either that or artificial intelligence just wipes us all out.

There are going to be changes, no doubt, but do not delude yourself into thinking socialism will be the answer.
Throughout history change has also brought opportunity
Socialism will snuff out opportunity & innovation

 

[JohnLarue]

Idiotic.

Says the perpetual fool
There have poor people since money was invented
You can not fix that as it is part of human nature

larue, how stupid are you to make statements like that?

I am a hell of a lot sharper than you. That's for damn sure

You sound like that idiotic Fox commentator who was just taken down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lut2NEZa0Hc

And you sound like the fool Groggy who was kicked off this board
Go figure

Why do you keep backing losing economic models?
When challenged to find an example of a government that backs your policies the best you came up with before was the Paul Martin government, yet you keep backing austerity despite it being a constant failure.

Free enterprise & minimal govt intervention has worked a whole lot better than your commie nightmare
How are they making out in Venezuela?

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/let-this-be-the-end-of-austerity-once-and-for-all/

Portugal proves it.
The policies you back are failures and you are an idiot to keep expecting different results from the same experiment.

A country in southern Europe?
Portugal? One of the Euro dogs?
They spent their way to some growth, but they still have a mountain of debt & zero interest rates are going to stop real soon
You must be kidding

Sorry, not going to follow that plan

Hey why don't you send that article to the Greek government & suggest they borrow & spend more as the path to prosperity?

Too bad nobody will lend them any money

 

[JohnLarue]

You don't pay for it, you may pay a fraction of a penny. But why are you more upset about that then the much higher cost of jailing, treating and housing poor people. That is already being paid for.

It was estimated it would cost something like $42 B a year to roll this out
And the program would not meet the objective of eliminating poverty
Your belief that it would be offset by other savings in Jailing, treating and housing is just wishful thinking
There have always been poor people & there will always be poor people. They will still require treatment & housing & unfortunately jails

$ 42 B makes the concept a non-starter.

If the concept is never going fly, no need to run a pilot
Particularly when the govt has a mountain of debt & explicitly stated it needs & wants to reduce spending

 

[Frankfooter]

There have poor people since money was invented
You can not fix that as it is part of human nature

Idiotic.

You can absolutely make it better, compare poverty rates in norther EU countries vs poverty rates in the US.
Its easy and just takes a bit of money, easily afforded by the rich.

They spent their way to some growth

Exactly, and compared to countries enacting the austerity you call for its a raging success.
Your plan is a failure every time.
Yet you still back it.

 

[Boober69]

You don't pay for it, you may pay a fraction of a penny. But why are you more upset about that then the much higher cost of jailing, treating and housing poor people. That is already being paid for.

I don't pay for it?
Where do you think the money magically comes from?

 

[Boober69]

Its easy and just takes a bit of money, easily afforded by the rich.

Why are you always so eager to spend other people's money?

 

[Liminal]

Perhaps they were not burdened by 15 years of foolish & irresponsible spending & govt expansion.


By fools who care not to deal with the reality of the matter
Do the math
It is factual and irefutable


Since you are the financial know it all who claims $400B is irrelevant, why do you not explain it to us?

Look, spending more than you make & owing a ton of money is unsustainable under any scenario



Time for you to clue in
As pointed out there will always be poor people, therefore any money thrown at this issue will not "deal with" or solve the issue
Years latter you will still have poor people & a bigger debt, which will just make dealing with the problem then more difficult


Again the same logic dictates that if there will always be poor people, then unless they stop making babies, there will always be child poverty.
You think you can mitigate , however it is a unsolvable issue as a result of human nature
Always has been & always will be




You want to borrow more money to pay people not to work when the provincial debt is unsustainable & you say I have short term thinking????
WTF?

Look dummy, right now the interest is half the size of the education budget & it is the third largest expenditure.
Interest rates are increasing and even getting to balance is going to be a challenge
Ontario's long term growth outlook is 2 maybe 3% tops, so it is mathematically improbable / impossible to grow our way out of this mess

When you do not pay off debt and continue to borrow it compounds & very quickly if interest rates are rising
Lenders started demanding higher rates when debt becomes excessive. This accelerates the problem even more.
Interest costs will become larger than the education budget unless this is mitigated & mitigated NOW through cost cutting.
Given the choice between ensuring future generations are educated or paying people not to work,, it should be a non brainer for even you

You want it both ways , but fail to see that without responsible fiscal control government can not provide resources to try and address social issues
Sorry but Granny Wynne already borrowed & spent all the money

Time for a little bit of reality. The debt is not even 350 billion...but what's 50 billion to an exaggerator? And it's not the third largest expense, it's the fourth.

"As of March 31, 2018, the Ontario government's total debt is projected to be CDN$348.79 billion.[4] The Debt-to-GDP ratio for 2017-2018 is 37.1% and interest on the debt is CDN$11.97 billion, representing 8.0% of Ontario's revenue and its fourth-largest spending area.[5][6]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_government_debt

 

[Frankfooter]

Why are you always so eager to spend other people's money?

All you need to do is hire a few more CRA auditors so they can do their job and enforce the existing tax system fairly.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cra-tax-avoidance-evasion-1.4787781

Why are you so eager to let people who can afford it off from paying their fair share?

 

[JohnLarue]

All you need to do is hire a few more CRA auditors so they can do their job and enforce the existing tax system fairly.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cra-tax-avoidance-evasion-1.4787781

Why are you so eager to let people who can afford it off from paying their fair share?

The top 20% pay 56% of the tax in this country
Having a true fair share would result on a much greater burden on lower and middle class incomes

Why are you so eager to stifel investment & risk taking in our economy ?

 

[JohnLarue]

Idiotic.

Yes you are

You can absolutely make it better, compare poverty rates in norther EU countries vs poverty rates in the US.

You just quoted the financial basketcase in southern Europe now you want to quote northern Europe
$42 B a year to make it better??
Not a chance

Its easy and just takes a bit of money, easily afforded by the rich.

$42 B is not a "bit of money"
You slimily POS , demanding free money for people who do not work & demanding it be paid for by others
Clue in stupid, if you think an incremental $42 B in taxes would be solely paid for by the rich you are even dumber than I thought

Exactly, and compared to countries enacting the austerity you call for its a raging success.

They now have a mountain of debt which will necessitate cuts to government spending
the bill always comes due
Yet you just plain ignore this

Your plan is a failure every time.

That is bull shit
Ignoring debt because it is inconvenient for you is not a plan

Now go sit in the corner with your dunce cap on

 

[Frankfooter]

The top 20% pay 56% of the tax in this country
Having a true fair share would result on a much greater burden on lower and middle class incomes

Idiotic.

We are talking about the top 1%, not the top 20%.
Canada ranks 12 of 17 for gini equality among peer countries and the divide between rich and poor has been growing.
Applying the tax system as it exists fairly would not put pressure on the middle and lower classes, only to enforce the system on the 1%.

 

[Frankfooter]

$42 B a year to make it better??

Then you should have voted for Wynne, as she was the only premier to report a surplus in Ontario for over 2 decades.
Not Drug Ford who will add to the debt with cheap beer, cheaper gas taxes and a host of lawsuits.

By the way larue, you posts show the total failure of your arguments.
I gave you examples of countries that have enacted the policies I back and are better for it.

The best you can come up with are insults, as your ideas have failed every single time a country has tried them.
You are the definition of insanity, expecting different results for the same actions.

 

[JohnLarue]

People on welfare tend to not vote anyway

So why in the world should we dive up our debt to help them if they do not take the simplest step (voting) which could help themselves?
This is the most ridiculous plan ever

 

[JohnLarue]

Idiotic.

Yes you are

We are talking about the top 1%, not the top 20%.

No, you said " tax the Rich" & the top 20% are most certainly rich relative to the remaining 80%
Besides marginal tax rates impact a lot more then just the top 1%
You do not get to cherry pick the stats in order to hide the truth which is the rich pay more than half of taxes in this country

Canada ranks 12 of 17 for gini equality among peer countries and the divide between rich and poor has been growing.

There has been rich poor since money was invented
You think you can fix this via taxation & that makes you a fool & a filthy commie
We all know that massive wealth transfer is your ultimate goal here

Applying the tax system as it exists fairly would not put pressure on the middle and lower classes, only to enforce the system on the 1%.

If someone is breaking the laws make an example of them.
But a union demanding more resources to create a "witch hunt" of our most productive citizens is idiotic & dangerous
it will drive investment $ elsewhere
but you are too stupid to understand this

 

[JohnLarue]

Then you should have voted for Wynne, as she was the only premier to report a surplus in Ontario for over 2 decades.

What a stupid statement
The liberals were in power for 15 years had one miniscule surplus.
That idiot Wynne more than doubled the provincial debt

Your support of here finances shows how detached you are from reality & how each and everyone of your thoughts are driven by your lunatic ideology rather than common sense & sound judgment

Not Drug Ford who will add to the debt with cheap beer, cheaper gas taxes and a host of lawsuits.

No he is going to eliminate waste & try to clean up a unbelievably irresponsible financial mess left by granny wynne

By the way larue, you posts show the total failure of your arguments.
I gave you examples of countries that have enacted the policies I back and are better for it.

You gave examples of countries which have massive debt, which you just ignore because you do not understand it
You are a damn fool

The best you can come up with are insults, as your ideas have failed every single time a country has tried them.

hows that little socialist experiment working in Venezuela?

You are the definition of insanity, expecting different results for the same actions.

Actually the definition of insanity is borrowing money to give to people for not working

The problem with socialists is they soon run out of other peoples money

 

[canada-man]

 

[Boober69]

...because we are lazy able-bodied young adults who want everyone else to pay for our lifestyle while we stay home and have more kids.

 

[Boober69]

All you need to do is hire a few more CRA auditors so they can do their job and enforce the existing tax system fairly.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cra-tax-avoidance-evasion-1.4787781

Why are you so eager to let people who can afford it off from paying their fair share?

Why do you feel richer people should be punished financially just because they are able to make more money?

 

[canada-man]

...because we are lazy able-bodied young adults who want everyone else to pay for our lifestyle while we stay home and have more kids.

they use us they use the money to go back to school and find a better job