La Villa Spa

Only Three Months Left For Planet Earth( and other false doomsday predictions)

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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investigating a fraud and a liar is not harassing. CBC and CTV all have similar investigative reporting programs
The manner in which he asked the questions did make him a real hack. Like insulting her with regards to that Tesla car and plastics. She was answering his questions at first, until she recognized who he was and how he had harassed her when she visited Edmonton.

When Manu Raj from CNN asked a question in a far more polite manner, the Republican Senator called him a "Liberal Hack" right away. All the right wingers on this Board cheered her for doing so. This individual is the real right wing hack!!
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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NASA's Gavin Schmidt has updated the chart showing models vs projections with 2019's data.

Given the science deniers here think they aren't accurate this would be a good time for them to post projections from deniers that are more accurate.
hahahahahahaha!

 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,181
7,080
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NASA's Gavin Schmidt has updated the chart showing models vs projections with 2019's data.

Given the science deniers here think they aren't accurate this would be a good time for them to post projections from deniers that are more accurate.
hahahahahahaha!

This is the Climate Change Reality Chart. The 8% or so of Canadian Trumptards cannot accept that actual fact!!
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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This is the Climate Change Reality Chart. The 8% or so of Canadian Trumptards cannot accept that actual fact!!
Totally, and what's fucking hilarious is larue trying to argue that his chart of atmospheric temperatures shows no warming and disproves climate change when it shows similar numbers.
He calls his chart totally legit and the second one propaganda.



vs

 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Totally, and what's fucking hilarious is larue trying to argue that his chart of atmospheric temperatures shows no warming and disproves climate change when it shows similar numbers.
He calls his chart totally legit and the second one propaganda.

Do not tell anyone what I am trying to argue
#1. You lack the scientific understanding of this subject to comprehend what is being argued.
#2. You are a pathelogical lair
#3, You do not pay attention
#4 You never get it right

I Know John Christys is legitimate. He was thoroughly vetted by the US government (obama administration) before he testified at a senate hearing committee on global warming. He came out squeaky clean.
He is (or was) also a member of the IPCC &
appears quite willing to discuss his work with other scientist and/ or the lay person

The atmosphere is where the greenhouse effect is suppose to be occurring, so its good idea to measure the temperature there




vs
An incomplete land data set filled with data issues and biased by the urban heat island effect.
There is very very limited data in Gavin Schmidt's data record for the arctic & antarctic, which theoretically should be warming up the most

Gavin Schmidt, who refuses to debate Roy Spencer & runs away instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V96k4BO2sBw
6 minutes 20 or 30 seconds

Gee what can Gavin be afraid of ?
That was bazarre and extremely unprofessional.
My guess is 97% of all scientists would agree
The primary tenant behind scientific discovery is you must be willing to stand and defend your hypothesis against all critics

Gee I wonder what Gavins data adjustments look like?

[/QUOTE]



He calls his chart totally legit and the second one propaganda.
How would you know?
You can not read charts, & do not understand what they mean

Prove me wrong
Explain this one and its implications for Co2 as the one and only "Control Knob " on climate

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,866
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Do not tell anyone what I am trying to argue
#1. You lack the scientific understanding of this subject to comprehend what is being argued.
#2. You are a pathelogical lair
#3, You do not pay attention
#4 You never get it right
I Know John Christys is legitimate. He was thoroughly vetted by the US government (obama administration) before he testified at a senate hearing committee on global warming. He came out squeaky clean.
He is (or was) also a member of the IPCC &
appears quite willing to discuss his work with other scientist and/ or the lay person
The atmosphere is where the greenhouse effect is suppose to be occurring, so its good idea to measure the temperature there

vs
An incomplete land data set filled with data issues and biased by the urban heat island effect.
There is very very limited data in Gavin Schmidt's data record for the arctic & antarctic, which theoretically should be warming up the most
Gavin Schmidt, who refuses to debate Roy Spencer & runs away instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V96k4BO2sBw
6 minutes 20 or 30 seconds
Gee what can Gavin be afraid of ?
That was bazarre and extremely unprofessional.
My guess is 97% of all scientists would agree
The primary tenant behind scientific discovery is you must be willing to stand and defend your hypothesis against all critics

Gee I wonder what Gavins data adjustments look like?




hahahahahahahahahaha!

larue, you're fucking hilarious.
What a lame ass rant!

Look, you've been exposed here as a total fraud.
You claim that the Christy chart is legit and the Gavin Schmidt chart isn't but they both show very similar warming, despite one being troposphere and one being surface.
All you've done is shown that climate change is real and is happening just as the IPCC projected it would.

Check it out!
Chart 1 is the chart larue sourced by Christy, which shows troposphere warming.
Chart 2 is NASA's Gavin Schmidt's chart, which shows surface warming vs climate model projections.
Both of those charts show the same amount of warming, the same warming that larue is still denying is real.
Hilarious!




vs

 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
Climate Crackpots Lose in Court Again
January 24, 2020
By H. Sterling Burnett

Climate Change Weekly #348

For the second time in two months, a court tossed out a lawsuit brought by climate cranks, this time supposedly representing kids.

A three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed a lawsuit brought on behalf of 21 youths by the climate legal advocacy group Our Children’s Trust against the federal government in an attempt to force it to impose limits on fossil fuel use.

This decision arrived just a month after New York state Supreme Court Justice Barry Ostrager dismissed a lawsuit brought by state Attorney General Letitia James against ExxonMobil, in which she accused the company of lying to investors about its business prospects in light of the possible costs of government regulations to fight climate change.

“The office of the Attorney General failed to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that ExxonMobil made any material misstatements or omissions about its practices and procedures that misled any reasonable investor,” Ostrager wrote in his decision.

Ostrager dismissed the case with prejudice, meaning it cannot be brought again based on these facts in New York.

In the case the Ninth Circuit Court dismissed on January 17, Kelsey Cascadia Rose Juliana et al. v. The United States of America et al., 21 youths aged 10 to 21 sued the federal government in a federal district court in Oregon arguing the government violated their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property by encouraging the use of fossil fuels, which produce greenhouse gases the plaintiffs allege damage the climate system.

When the case was initially filed in 2015, the Obama administration tried to have it dismissed, but the federal district judge denied its request.

The Trump administration inherited the Obama administration’s appeal of the district court’s decision then pending before the Ninth Circuit Court in 2017. The latter court granted a temporary stay on the lawsuit, allowing the newly installed Trump administration to develop its own response.

On appeal, the Trump administration argued, as the Obama administration had before it, the youths lacked standing to sue the federal government for any purported harms from climate change, as any damages it might cause them were not unique or particularized to them, a criterion for standing to sue.

Calling the youths’ lawsuit “a direct attack on the separation of powers,” the Trump administration additionally argued even if the youths had standing to sue, the legislature and the executive, not the courts, were the appropriate branches of government for determining the nation’s energy policies and responses to climate change.

In a two-to-one decision, the three-judge panel agreed on both points.

The youths lacked standing to sue the federal government, and the court didn’t have the authority to dictate climate policy, wrote Ninth Circuit Judge Andrew Hurwitz, an Obama administration appointee, in his majority opinion.

The plaintiffs lacked standing to sue, said Hurwitz, because they could not show the policies had done them any direct harm. Their injuries were not “concrete and particularized,” Hurwitz wrote.

https://www.heartland.org/news-opinion/news/climate-crackpots-lose-in-court-again
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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larue, you're fucking hilarious.
What a lame ass rant!
Your the joke

Look, you've been exposed here as a total fraud.
Give your head a shake

You claim that the Christy chart is legit
It is, explain how it is not

and the Gavin Schmidt chart isn't but they both show very similar warming, despite one being troposphere and one being surface.
I never said that. I did say the surface data set is flawed & that any action is occurring in the atmosphere


All you've done is shown that climate change is real and is happening just as the IPCC projected it would.
Ah no, the IPCC models projected twice as much warming as has occurred
If you had a clue you would see this

You were claiming Christys chart should be reading 0.8 despite it is clearly labeled as 0.56
Do you not still feel the need to mislead?


Check it out!
Chart 1 is the chart larue sourced by Christy, which shows troposphere warming.
Chart 2 is NASA's Gavin Schmidt's chart, which shows surface warming vs climate model projections.
Both of those charts show the same amount of warming, the same warming that larue is still denying is real.
Hilarious!
Took you half a week to notice that did ya?
Too busy trying to paint Roy Spencer / John Christy as dishonest because you could not read a chart ?

As you pointed out they have different baselines, probably moot

Now if you take a look at
Christys Chart from 2015

You will notice the model were projecting almost 1C by year 2020 , not the 0.56 C which has occurred



That model data set included Gavin schmidt's model,
Odd how his predictions from 2015 have come down, cut by 44%

You still do not get it
I never said there was no warming, the planet warms and cools all the time
And if you think this is evidence that proves CO2 is the cause you are sadly mistaken

Explain this
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Your the joke
Give your head a shake
It is, explain how it is not
I never said that. I did say the surface data set is flawed & that any action is occurring in the atmosphere
Ah no, the IPCC models projected twice as much warming as has occurred
If you had a clue you would see this
Tell me where in this chart the projections are double the warming that we see.



Hey larue, how come the chart you posted, where you claim the warming is half what is predicted, disagrees with the chart posted directly from Spencer's site?
Did you notice that your chart is total bullshit and is contradicted by the numbers shown in the legit chart?
Not only does it get Spencer's satellite numbers wrong it also puts in the wrong numbers for CMIP projections.
You posted bullshit.
Again.

You really can't tell bullshit from good science, can you?


 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
Hypocrites Preaching Green

By Ronald Stein

Founder and Ambassador for Energy & Infrastructure of PTS Advance, headquartered in Irvine, California

If you don’t know who Tom Steyer is, you should. He’s the guy riding in the internal combustion powered limousine that drops Al Gore off at his speaking engagements.

Mr. Steyer, a billionaire former hedge fund manager, who has become the most influential environmentalist in American politics, made his billions from the coal-related projects his firm bankrolled that have and will generate tens of millions of tons of carbon pollution for years, if not decades, to come.

His former firm Farallon, was appropriately named after a shark-infested shoal on the California coast, and it quickly earned a reputation for take-no-prisoners investing, raking in millions, and eventually billions. For more than 15 years, Mr. Steyer’s fund, Farallon Capital Management, pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into companies that operate coal mines and coal-fired power plants from Indonesia to China.

Farallon invested in a subsidiary of Indiabulls, an Indian financial conglomerate, in 2008, just as the subsidiary began expanding into coal-fired power. Two years later, Indiabulls began construction on two massive coal-fired power plants: the 2,700-megawatt Amravati plant in central India and the 1,350-megawatt Nasik plant outside Mumbai. When completed, Amravati is expected to be one of the largest coal-fired power plants in India locking in decades of carbon pollution.

In 2007, Farallon provided funds for the sale of Meiya Power, an electric utility that operates four large coal-fired power plants, which collectively produce about 7,000 megawatts of power. Combined, the completed Indiabulls and Meiya plants will produce about 60 million tons of carbon pollution a year.

The expected life span of those facilities, some of which may run through 2030, could cloud the credibility of Mr. Steyer’s clean-energy stance.

Today, it is appalling that Steyer is using his emissions profits to fund his image as the “environmental savior” to combat climate change. It is basically hypocritical to claim oneself a great environmentalist while investing in the very same technologies you rail against. Steyer’s shark instincts are now securing a wealth of investor funds from those who believe and support his green messages.

For electricity generation, green is good, but Steyer and his buddies Bernie Sanders and Mike Bloomberg are tight lipped about the extensive land required for the intermittent electricity from wind turbines and solar panel farms and where to place them for maximum exposure to sun and wind year- round. The land acquisitions necessary to pull that off are nightmares waiting to happen. And then, its only intermittent electricity when the sun is shining, and the wind is blowing.

Steyer and his buddies are shockingly unaware that oil and gas is not just an American business with its 135 refineries in the U.S., but an international industry with more than 700 refineries worldwide that supply oil products and fuels to the world. Without the U.S refineries our country would become a national security risk being dependent on foreign countries for our existence.

With the winter weather most of the country has endured this year, going green would have resulted in a very dark America with numerous weather-related deaths from exposure to the elements because of no electricity.

Green is good, but Steyer and his followers have yet to propose replacements for the products from deep earth fuels that contribute to ALL medications, electronic components, air travel, shipping, transportation, and commerce.

Steyer, Bernie Sanders and Mike Bloomberg have yet to provide substitutes for the economies around the world that are directly connected to the prosperity of energy dense deep earth minerals and fuels that support the following infrastructures that benefit from the thousands of products that move things around the world.

· Medications, vaccines, antibiotics, and medical equipment that are all made with the derivatives from petroleum.

· Electronics that are all made with the derivatives from petroleum.

· Commercial aviation, with 23,000 commercial airplanes worldwide that has been accommodating 4 billion passenger annually.

· Cruise liners, each of which consumes 80,000 gallons of fuels daily, that have been accommodating more than 25 million passengers annually worldwide.

· The USA has 98 operating nuclear power reactors in 30 states providing 20% of carbon free electricity in the USA.

· The 52,000 merchant ships burning more than 120 million gallons a day of high sulfur bunker fuel (soon to be converted to diesel fuel to reduce sulfur emissions) moving products worldwide worth billions of dollars daily.

· The military presence that protects each country from each other, is increasing each year to save the world.

· Usage of fertilizers that accommodates growth of much of the food that feeds billions annually.

· More than 8,000 coal power plants in America providing continuous electricity to citizens.

· Vehicle manufacturing as all parts are based on the chemical and by-products from fossil fuels.

· The usage of asphalt for road construction.

Again, green electricity is a good idea, but the inefficiencies of those renewables, and the huge subsidies required to move in that direction negatively affect the consumer. Like Germany, America’s renewables are becoming an increasing share in electricity generation, but at a HIGH COST. In California alone, intermittent electricity from low power density renewables has contributed to California household users paying more than 50% and industrial users paying more than 100% above the national average for electricity and may be very contributory to America’s growing homelessness and poverty populations.

Despite the debut of 45 pure electric and plug-in hybrids in the United States last year, only 325,000 plug-in passenger vehicles were sold, down 6.8% from 349,000 in 2018, according to Edmunds. That is just 2% of the 17 million vehicles of all types sold in the United States in 2019. Tom Steyer’s advocating that electric vehicles will replace every other vehicle on the road is far-fetched.

Until they figure out how to power a 4500 pound Maybach with bulletproof windows and panels all around that can cold start on a dime and get out of harm’s way when a diplomat needs to exit a venue post haste, the intermittent electricity and lithium powered vehicle market will always only be a niche market.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/28/hypocrites-preaching-green/
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Tell me where in this chart the projections are double the warming that we see.
You still need help with the charts because you do not understand them

The projections for 2020 made in 2015 are 1 degree C
It is hard to miss ,
a) just pick out 2020 on the x-axis (Thats the line going from left to right along the bottom)
b) then look straight up, way up until you see the red line.
c) What is the the temperature at that point? idegree C



Yet by year 2020 the actual came in @ 0.56 C. half of the models projected value for 2020 made in 2015..
See below

I know you are incapable of processing the information of two charts & putting together a logical conclusion, so .... ask someone to help you



Hey larue, how come the chart you posted, where you claim the warming is half what is predicted, disagrees with the chart posted directly from Spencer's site?
You are completely void of logic.
There is no model projection in the 2020 chart, (ie what you call spencers chart) , it shows 0.56 C temp anomaly as clearly labeled
0.56 is half of what was projected back in 2015 by the 102 IPCC CMIP5 climate alarmists models, one of which was Gavin Schmidts model

Did you notice that your chart is total bullshit and is contradicted by the numbers shown in the legit chart?
Not only does it get Spencer's satellite numbers wrong it also puts in the wrong numbers for CMIP projections.
You posted bullshit.
Again.
You are just not bright enough to look at a couple of charts and figure it out. It is not my fault you cant think for yourself. Sheeple

You really can't tell bullshit from good science, can you?
I have seen more than enough of your bullshit to know bullshit


Here have a gander at this NOAA chart
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/natio...se_prd=true&begbaseyear=1901&endbaseyear=2000


U.S. Temperatures down 2.25 C from 2016
U.S. Temperatures down 2.6 C from 2012
Perhaps Gavin still has to smooth out the data to fix that
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
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canadianmale.wordpress.com
Whether It’s a ‘Climate Emergency’ or Nuclear War: Doomsday Never Seems to Happen

From 1947 to today, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, keepers of the “doomsday clock”—a holdover from the atomic age and Cold War—has predicted doom by moving the hands of a prop clock closer to or further away from midnight. Midnight represents a global doom disaster in progress.

In a breathless press release on January 23, which included a cameo from former California governor and climate activist Jerry Brown, the group announced that due to “climate change,” the world is 20 seconds closer to midnight, standing at 100 seconds (1 minute 40 seconds) before midnight.

The scientists announced:

Civilization-ending nuclear war—whether started by design, blunder, or simple miscommunication—is a genuine possibility. Climate change that could devastate the planet is undeniably happening. And for a variety of reasons that include a corrupted and manipulated media environment, democratic governments and other institutions that should be working to address these threats have failed to rise to the challenge.

In essence, they are saying nuclear war and climate change are equivalent threats. Such a comparison is mind-bogglingly ridiculous.

Consider that climate change has no “hair trigger” like nuclear catastrophe does. Some despot or dictator who obtains a nuclear weapon is entirely different from the slow change of climate over 100 years.

Yet, these supposedly learned scientists have embraced the hype of “climate emergency” as if it was on par with a nuclear hair trigger. Lamenting the lack of action and interest in climate change, they write:
CARTOONS | Tom Stiglich
View Cartoon

Lip service continued, with some governments now echoing many scientists’ use of the term “climate emergency.” But the policies and actions that governments proposed were hardly commensurate to an emergency. Exploration and exploitation of fossil fuels continues to grow.

Because all governments don’t sense an “emergency” and have not pulled the plug on electricity grids powered by fossil fuels, the Atomic Scientists are in despair.

They would actually like us to believe that we are presently in more danger of global apocalypse than during the Cuban Missile Crisis.


Really? Ask yourself this: Do you feel like climate change may burn your town to a crisp any day now? Do we need to implement “duck and cover” exercises for school kids in case the boogeyman of climate change sweeps down and attacks a city?

The threat comparison between nuclear war and climate change is patently absurd—there’s really no other way to describe it.

https://townhall.com/columnists/anthonywatts/2020/01/30/draft-n2560357
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You still need help with the charts because you do not understand them

The projections for 2020 made in 2015 are 1 degree C
It is hard to miss ,
a) just pick out 2020 on the x-axis (Thats the line going from left to right along the bottom)
b) then look straight up, way up until you see the red line.
c) What is the the temperature at that point? idegree
larue, your chart is:
a) out of date
b) includes falsified numbers for IPCC projections
c) contains wrong numbers for satellite data

Stop pushing old bullshit as if its legit.
Its boring.

If you've got something legit and current lets discuss it, until then here is the most recent charts that's direct from the sources.
Here is the most recent chart from Dr Roy Spencer of the atmospheric satellite temperatures you prefer, not filtered through Christy and his data fuckery, followed by the actual projections of surface temperature by the IPCC with measurements of surface temperature to judge them by. The second chart is of course much better since it doesn't try to bait and switch atmospheric temperatures with surface temperature projections as you continue to dishonestly do here.

Speaking of which, trying to bait and switch one countries temperatures with global temperatures and projections is another form of your dishonest bait and switch techniques.

You are incredibly dishonest and not very good at it, its so easy to catch you and yet you aren't bright enough to understand why what you did is wrong.
Total dunning-kruger effect symptoms, larue.





 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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larue, your chart is:
a) out of date
b) includes falsified numbers for IPCC projections
c) contains wrong numbers for satellite data

Stop pushing old bullshit as if its legit.
Its boring.

If you've got something legit and current lets discuss it, until then here is the most recent charts that's direct from the sources.
Here is the most recent chart from Dr Roy Spencer of the atmospheric satellite temperatures you prefer, not filtered through Christy and his data fuckery, followed by the actual projections of surface temperature by the IPCC with measurements of surface temperature to judge them by. The second chart is of course much better since it doesn't try to bait and switch atmospheric temperatures with surface temperature projections as you continue to dishonestly do here.

Speaking of which, trying to bait and switch one countries temperatures with global temperatures and projections is another form of your dishonest bait and switch techniques.

You are incredibly dishonest and not very good at it, its so easy to catch you and yet you aren't bright enough to understand why what you did is wrong.
Total dunning-kruger effect symptoms, larue.
You asked a question and I answered it
I know you are incapable of processing the information of two charts & putting together a logical conclusion, so .... ask someone to help you

Speaking of which, trying to bait and switch one countries temperatures with global temperatures and projections is another form of your dishonest bait and switch techniques.
Again if you are incapable of understanding It is not my fault


All I did was point out the latest U.S temperatures are down quite a bit
You call that a bait and switch???
Well I guess that's how it appears to the uneducated, again its not my fault you quit school to join a union.
don't try and blame me because you don't understand

Here have a gander at this NOAA chart
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/nation...dbaseyear=2000


U.S. Temperatures down 2.25 C from 2016
U.S. Temperatures down 2.6 C from 2012
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,866
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You asked a question and I answered it
I know you are incapable of processing the information of two charts & putting together a logical conclusion, so .... ask someone to help you


Again if you are incapable of understanding It is not my fault


All I did was point out the latest U.S temperatures are down quite a bit
You call that a bait and switch???
Well I guess that's how it appears to the uneducated, again its not my fault you quit school to join a union.
don't try and blame me because you don't understand

Here have a gander at this NOAA chart
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/nation...dbaseyear=2000


U.S. Temperatures down 2.25 C from 2016
U.S. Temperatures down 2.6 C from 2012
This is a discussion about global temperatures, and global surface temperatures to be exact.
So far you've:

1) Tried to bait and switch with old atmospheric temperatures instead of surface
2) Refused to use up to date charts
3) Posted faked numbers on another old chart
4) Tried to bait and switch the topic to one country, one year instead of long term global temperature trends.

The only one who doesn't understand here is you mr science, you still don't understand how badly you've failed this debate.
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
The goal of renewables was to turn modern industrial societies back into agrarian ones, argued Murray Bookchin in his 1962 book, Our Synthetic Environment.


Germany’s renewables experiment is over.

By 2025 it will have spent $580B to make electricity nearly 2x more expensive & 10x more carbon-intensive than France’s.

The reason renewables can’t power modern civilization is because they were never meant to.




Over the last decade, journalists have held up Germany’s renewables energy transition, the Energiewende, as an environmental model for the world.

“Many poor countries, once intent on building coal-fired power plants to bring electricity to their people, are discussing whether they might leapfrog the fossil age and build clean grids from the outset,” thanks to the Energiewende, wrote a New York Times reporter in 2014.

With Germany as inspiration, the United Nations and World Bank poured billions into renewables like wind, solar, and hydro in developing nations like Kenya.

But then, last year, Germany was forced to acknowledge that it had to delay its phase-out of coal, and would not meet its 2020 greenhouse gas reduction commitments. It announced plans to bulldoze an ancient church and forest in order to get at the coal underneath it.

After renewables investors and advocates, including Al Gore and Greenpeace, criticized Germany, journalists came to the country’s defense. “Germany has fallen short of its emission targets in part because its targets were so ambitious,” one of them argued last summer.

“If the rest of the world made just half Germany’s effort, the future for our planet would look less bleak,” she wrote. “So Germany, don’t give up. And also: Thank you.”

But Germany didn’t just fall short of its climate targets. Its emissions have flat-lined since 2009.

Now comes a major article in the country’s largest newsweekly magazine, Der Spiegel, titled, “A Botched Job in Germany” ("Murks in Germany"). The magazine’s cover shows broken wind turbines and incomplete electrical transmission towers against a dark silhouette of Berlin.

“The Energiewende — the biggest political project since reunification — threatens to fail,” write Der Spiegel’s Frank Dohmen, Alexander Jung, Stefan Schultz, Gerald Traufetter in their a 5,700-word investigative story.

Over the past five years alone, the Energiewende has cost Germany €32 billion ($36 billion) annually, and opposition to renewables is growing in the German countryside.

“The politicians fear citizen resistance” Der Spiegel reports. “There is hardly a wind energy project that is not fought.”

In response, politicians sometimes order “electrical lines be buried underground but that is many times more expensive and takes years longer.”

As a result, the deployment of renewables and related transmission lines is slowing rapidly. Less than half as many wind turbines (743) were installed in 2018 as were installed in 2017, and just 30 kilometers of new transmission were added in 2017.

Solar and wind advocates say cheaper solar panels and wind turbines will make the future growth in renewables cheaper than past growth but there are reasons to believe the opposite will be the case.

Der Spiegel cites a recent estimate that it would cost Germany “€3.4 trillion ($3.8 trillion),” or seven times more than it spent from 2000 to 2025, to increase solar and wind three to five-fold by 2050.

Between 2000 and 2019, Germany grew renewables from 7% to 35% of its electricity. And as much of Germany's renewable electricity comes from biomass, which scientists view as polluting and environmentally degrading, as from solar.

Of the 7,700 new kilometers of transmission lines needed, only 8% have been built, while large-scale electricity storage remains inefficient and expensive. “A large part of the energy used is lost,” the reporters note of a much-hyped hydrogen gas project, “and the efficiency is below 40%... No viable business model can be developed from this.”

Meanwhile, the 20-year subsidies granted to wind, solar, and biogas since 2000 will start coming to an end next year. “The wind power boom is over,” Der Spiegel concludes.

All of which raises a question: if renewables can’t cheaply power Germany, one of the richest and most technologically advanced countries in the world, how could a developing nation like Kenya ever expect them to allow it to “leapfrog” fossil fuels?
The Question of Technology

The earliest and most sophisticated 20th Century case for renewables came from a German who is widely considered the most influential philosopher of the 20th Century, Martin Heidegger.

In his 1954 essay, “The Question Concerning of Technology,” Heidegger condemned the view of nature as a mere resource for human consumption.

The use of “modern technology,” he wrote, “puts to nature the unreasonable demand that it supply energy which can be extracted and stored as such… Air is now set upon to yield nitrogen, the earth to yield ore, ore to yield uranium…to yield atomic energy.”

The solution, Heidegger argued, was to yoke human society and its economy to unreliable energy flows. He even condemned hydro-electric dams, for dominating the natural environment, and praised windmills because they “do not unlock energy in order to store it.”

These weren’t just aesthetic preferences. Windmills have traditionally been useful to farmers whereas large dams have allowed poor agrarian societies to industrialize.

In the US, Heidegger’s views were picked up by renewable energy advocates. Barry Commoner in 1969 argued that a transition to renewables was needed to bring modern civilization "into harmony with the ecosphere."

The goal of renewables was to turn modern industrial societies back into agrarian ones, argued Murray Bookchin in his 1962 book, Our Synthetic Environment.

Bookchin admitted his proposal "conjures up an image of cultural isolation and social stagnation, of a journey backward in history to the agrarian societies of the medieval and ancient worlds."

But then, starting around the year 2000, renewables started to gain a high-tech luster. Governments and private investors poured $2 trillion into solar and wind and related infrastructure, creating the impression that renewables were profitable aside from subsidies.

Entrepreneurs like Elon Musk proclaimed that a rich, high-energy civilization could be powered by cheap solar panels and electric cars.

Journalists reported breathlessly on the cost declines in batteries, imagining a tipping point at which conventional electricity utilities would be “disrupted.”

But no amount of marketing could change the poor physics of resource-intensive and land-intensive renewables. Solar farms take 450 times more land than nuclear plants, and wind farms take 700 times more land than natural gas wells, to produce the same amount of energy.

Efforts to export the Energiewende to developing nations may prove even more devastating.

The new wind farm in Kenya, inspired and financed by Germany and other well-meaning Western nations, is located on a major flight path of migratory birds. Scientists say it will kill hundreds of endangered eagles.

“It’s one of the three worst sites for a wind farm that I’ve seen in Africa in terms of its potential to kill threatened birds,” a biologist explained.

In response, the wind farm’s developers have done what Europeans have long done in Africa, which is to hire the organizations, which ostensibly represent the doomed eagles and communities, to collaborate rather than fight the project.

Kenya won't be able to “leapfrog” fossil fuels with its wind farm. On the contrary, all of that unreliable wind energy is likely to increase the price of electricity and make Kenya’s slow climb out of poverty even slower.

Heidegger, like much of the conservation movement, would have hated what the Energiewende has become: an excuse for the destruction of natural landscapes and local communities.

Opposition to renewables comes from the country peoples that Heidegger idolized as more authentic and “grounded” than urbane cosmopolitan elites who fetishize their solar roofs and Teslas as signs of virtue.

Germans, who will have spent $580 billion on renewables and related infrastructure by 2025, express great pride in the Energiewende. “It’s our gift to the world,” a renewables advocate told The Times.

Tragically, many Germans appear to have believed that the billions they spent on renewables would redeem them. “Germans would then at last feel that they have gone from being world-destroyers in the 20th century to world-saviors in the 21st,” noted a reporter.

Many Germans will, like Der Spiegel, claim the renewables transition was merely “botched,” but it wasn't. The transition to renewables was doomed because modern industrial people, no matter how Romantic they are, do not want to return to pre-modern life.

The reason renewables can’t power modern civilization is because they were never meant to. One interesting question is why anybody ever thought they could.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...ecause-they-were-never-meant-to/#3fb68b3cea2b
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,209
2,920
113
This is a discussion about global temperatures, and global surface temperatures to be exact.
Your tryng to avoid the truth by ring fencing the discussion
I do not think so
if you want to be exact Canada Man clearly defined the discussion in the first statement of the opening thread

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-Earth(-and-other-false-doomsday-predictions)
Only Three Months Left For Planet Earth( and other false doomsday predictions)
This thread will be about all the doomsday climate predictions constantly cooked up by climate alarmists and laugh when they all fail
Ironically that was was over four months ago


So far you've:
1) Tried to bait and switch with old atmospheric temperatures instead of surface
Bait and switch?
Nope I have been clear that there are huge problems with the surface temperature data record, a fact the IPCC acknowledges, but you refuse to want to hear about

2) Refused to use up to date charts
WTF?
This chart is as up=to-date as is posible
Here have a gander at this NOAA chart
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/nation...dbaseyear=2000

U.S. Temperatures down 2.25 C from 2016
U.S. Temperatures down 2.6 C from 2012
3) Posted faked numbers on another old chart
Fake numbers? WTF
No
your lack of understanding does not entitle you to make ridiculous and obnoxious claims like that

4) Tried to bait and switch the topic to one country, one year instead of long term global temperature trends.
The U.S is part of the planet earth last time I looked
It is just plain too bad for the alarmists that the FACT the US has cooled down quite a bit is inconsistent with their hypothesis
The thing about a Scientific hypothesis is that it must be consistently supported against all experimental data testing
If it fails against one the hypothesis is rejected. That is way science works
This is looking like it will be a problem for the alarmists

If you have some deep understand or advanced scientific explanation how US temperatures can be decreasing while CO2 is increasing, please by all means enlighten us
I wont hold my breath as sadly we have witnessed the extent of your scientific understanding

The Frankfooter scientific method
1. Start the insults
2. Clam victory
3. Delete what you do not like
4. Toss in ridiculous accusations/statements like "Bait and switch" , "The surface is where the peoples is"
5. Attack the character of scientists, without any basis or without understanding their work
6. Post propaganda
7Insult some more
8 Claim victory
9. Repeat

The only one who doesn't understand here is you mr science, you still don't understand how badly you've failed this debate.
Explain how the US can be cooling in a world engulfed by global warming or get lost you uneducated fool
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,209
2,920
113
It was only a matter of time before some wako linked the corona virus to climate change
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51237225

Outbreaks of new infectious diseases are typically seen as a "one off".

But the new virus - thought to have stemmed from wildlife - highlights our risk from animal-borne disease. This is likely to be more of a problem in future as climate change and globalisation alter the way animals and humans interact.
The key word here are "this is likely to" , so no hard experimental results to back this up. It is nothing more than someone hypothesising
yet the BBC commissioned/ paid for the hypothesis

About this piece
This analysis piece was commissioned by BBC News from an expert working for an outside organisation.
Prof Tim Benton is research director of the Emerging Risks team at Chatham House, where he leads the Energy, Environment and Resources programme.
Chatham House, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, describes itself as an independent policy institute helping to build a sustainably secure, prosperous and just world.
This virus is caused by unsanitary open stall markets in China & some pretty strange eating habits. bat snacks
Connections to changing climate are theoretical at best and irresponsible at worst

Yet the propaganda spewing alarmists will liley have this splashed across the news media like so much of the falsehood related to climate change
If the world is doomed it is because stupidity misinformation and the corruption of science will place us on the path of socialism and the destruction of a society which is inevitable once that nightmare starts
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,866
22,264
113
Your tryng to avoid the truth by ring fencing the discussion
I do not think so
if you want to be exact Canada Man clearly defined the discussion in the first statement of the opening thread
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-Earth(-and-other-false-doomsday-predictions)
Ironically that was was over four months ago
Bait and switch?
Nope I have been clear that there are huge problems with the surface temperature data record, a fact the IPCC acknowledges, but you refuse to want to hear about
WTF?
This chart is as up=to-date as is posible
Fake numbers? WTF
No
your lack of understanding does not entitle you to make ridiculous and obnoxious claims like that
The U.S is part of the planet earth last time I looked
It is just plain too bad for the alarmists that the FACT the US has cooled down quite a bit is inconsistent with their hypothesis
The thing about a Scientific hypothesis is that it must be consistently supported against all experimental data testing
If it fails against one the hypothesis is rejected. That is way science works
This is looking like it will be a problem for the alarmists
If you have some deep understand or advanced scientific explanation how US temperatures can be decreasing while CO2 is increasing, please by all means enlighten us
I wont hold my breath as sadly we have witnessed the extent of your scientific understanding
The Frankfooter scientific method
1. Start the insults
2. Clam victory
3. Delete what you do not like
4. Toss in ridiculous accusations/statements like "Bait and switch" , "The surface is where the peoples is"
5. Attack the character of scientists, without any basis or without understanding their work
6. Post propaganda
7Insult some more
8 Claim victory
9. Repeat

Explain how the US can be cooling in a world engulfed by global warming or get lost you uneducated fool
Mr science, have you not yet understood the difference between climate and weather?
You're comparing the weather of the US over one year with the global climate over decades.
That, mr science, is bait and switch.

As is your repeated attempts to judge global surface temperature projections against global atmospheric measurements instead of using surface measurements.

By the way, when you call NASA's climate reporting 'propaganda', all it does is confirm you are an anti-science extremist.
All the more so when the one temperature report you say you trust shows you to be lying your face off about climate change, as it shows the exact same amount of warming as does NASA and every other global temp measurement.
You really don't understand the difference between science and propaganda.

You really are scientifically ignorant and incredibly dishonest.

The best example is from this line:
The thing about a Scientific hypothesis is that it must be consistently supported against all experimental data testing
Because the perfect example of your own terms is in the NASA supported chart I keep posting.
It compares the IPCC's hypothesis and projections over the last 40 years with the best data from multiple, well respected, sources.
But because you disagree with the findings as its against your confirmation bias all you can do is yell 'propaganda'.
You really think NASA is fucking propaganda?
That's so clueless.

 
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