Dream Spa

OMFG ..what is wrong with people these days

May 22, 2008
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Is it just me? Or is everyone looking to strike these days? I heard apparently now VIA rail workers want to strike? like wtf! be happy you even have a job atm. Tons of these people are looking for pay raises while many people have been losing jobs are taking partial leaves and or paycuts. This is not the time to be going on strike and asking for a raise.

In my opinion...unions really suck. they cripple the competitive advantage of companies and essentially handycaps them in the market place. I understand that there are always pros and cons...but really..a union is like a legal mafia holding companies hostages and taking money from workers so they can "protect" them.
 
soulsphere said:
Is it just me? Or is everyone looking to strike these days? I heard apparently now VIA rail workers want to strike? like wtf! be happy you even have a job atm. Tons of these people are looking for pay raises while many people have been losing jobs are taking partial leaves and or paycuts. This is not the time to be going on strike and asking for a raise.

In my opinion...unions really suck. they cripple the competitive advantage of companies and essentially handycaps them in the market place. I understand that there are always pros and cons...but really..a union is like a legal mafia holding companies hostages and taking money from workers so they can "protect" them.
I COMPLETELY agree w/ you! :)
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,145
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Detroit, USA
What is happening is government is trying to cut out the middle class. They are doing a very good job of it in the USA.
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
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Watching CTV News interviewing an economist. He actually broke-down the unemployment statistics into various categories. Here are some examples.

Unemployment in public sector (someting like 3%-4%)
Unemployment in private sector (something like 15%)
Unemployment among unionized public sector (close to zero)

The Canadian workforce is quickly splitting into "Two Solitudes".
 

themexi

Eat the Weak
Jun 12, 2006
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Unions still have a purpose... however they only serve as a direct recourse to abuses like they always have in Addition to the government agencies that support workers rights....


ABUSES.... actual abuses like worker safety, dicsrimination, etc are where unions are useful..... I know I wouldn't want to go back to the bad old days of the industrial revolution where there were REAL abuses like company stores, starvation wages, whippings, child labour, deadly dangerous work, etc.....

WSIB et all serve us well to curb these abuses.... & in that capacity Unions, though less needed, are still useful to maintain the proper vigilence required to prevent ABUSES...


More often than not however.... Unions are the ones doing the abusing.... to their host companies, to the economy & ultimately to the workers themselves....


-Not allowing you to bank sick days is NOT ABUSE

-Refusing to pay more than what the job is worth so long as minimumwage is met is NOT ABUSE

-Refusing to pay for benefits is NOT ABUSE

-Refusing to pay for a cushy pension is NOT ABUSE

- Hiring & firing people bases on performance instead of seniority is NOT ABUSE



BUT...........

Holding a company, economy, city & people hostage to get these luxuries when you can't demand them based on the importance of your actual labour IS ABUSE....




I think it's high time the government retool the labour laws so that there is a clear difference between ABUSE & LUXURIES.......

If a union goes on strike for an issue that constitute Genuine ABUSES they need to get resolved... then the full power of the government should be behind them...


But if they are simply quibbling about LUXURIES.... then they should still have the right to go on strike BUT theie employers should be able to immediately be allowed to start replacing them with workers who are willing to work for the compensation offered......

If the company truly can't find replacement workers in the market.... then the union workers can demand whatever they want & the company had better recognize their value..... But if the company can easily replace the union labour.... then maybe the union might want to reevaluate how much the labour they offer is really worth......



This solution would allow unions to keep their strength & the ability to apply it when it is needed... but it will remove their legally sanctioned extortion...
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
17,572
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themexi said:
If the company truly can't find replacement workers in the market.... then the union workers can demand whatever they want & the company had better recognize their value...
In a true supply and demand free market this imbalance will not persist for very long.
 
May 22, 2008
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like really. a lot of the arguments they are making is stupid. Carry over sick days..and so on. Why should someone honestly get more money when they pick up garbage...they have amazing benefits already too..anyone know exactly what a garbage picker makes? If someone says 25/hr im going to quit my fucking job and be a garbage man because that is stupid for the owrk they do.
 

iprint

SPREADING THE LOVE
Jan 10, 2008
708
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At My Desk
I was watching a Toronto news show and a lawyer was trying to get the striking day care work force back to work. It seem that in the charter of rights there is a provision that basiclly states that the court can speak for the children of a region when it is proven that their voice or safety is in Danger. It is not a back to work mandate but a charter of rights thing.
 

impala77

Active member
Jan 18, 2003
310
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Toronto
Well I think before we cast stones at the Via engineers as being greedy union slackers I think it is important to note that they haven't had a contract since Dec. 31 2006 considering we are now in to July of 2009 I think maybe a strike is warranted; even the federally appointed mediator could not reach a solution in that amount of time. I think a disruption in services to via, while very unfortunate is needed to drive home the need for a new contract.

As to the usefulness of unions in today's society, why argue the point? they are not going any where any time soon so get used to it!
 

iprint

SPREADING THE LOVE
Jan 10, 2008
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S.C. Joe said:
What is happening is government is trying to cut out the middle class. They are doing a very good job of it in the USA.
The government is not trying to get rid of the middleclass, the middleclass as JCM says "pay the bills, the bills that care", they pay the taxes. If anything the global market and global compitition is what is killing the "lazy" middleclass. people.
 

Moraff

Active member
Nov 14, 2003
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soulsphere said:
In my opinion...unions really suck. they cripple the competitive advantage of companies and essentially handycaps them in the market place. I understand that there are always pros and cons...but really..a union is like a legal mafia holding companies hostages and taking money from workers so they can "protect" them.
While I agree that there are bad unions (just as there are bad employers) this is not always true.

My company (unionized) was bought by another company (non-unionised) because they were tired of competing with us for market share and losing. We turned out a better product, faster and at a lower average wage than their company.... Unfortunately my company was a privately owned one and the owners got to the point where they wanted to retire.
 

themexi

Eat the Weak
Jun 12, 2006
1,272
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Lasttime said:
Well put, themexi!!

Just one question - do you have a problem "grandfathering" some of the changes in benefits. .. worker working for 30 years has anticipated a certain retirement benefit. . should it change now that he's going out the door??

Where I work benefits were pulled back to staff starting after a set date. Those of us already here. . . and already working at a pay level in anticipation of those benefits . . will still get them!! (Actually when I stated 20+ years ago . . the "old timers" already in place . . got a higher benefit level than i did!!)

LT

Good thinking..... Grandfathering would be the right thing to do... People who lived their lives planning along the rules at the time should get the full benefit.... Thx for the reminder
 

iprint

SPREADING THE LOVE
Jan 10, 2008
708
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themexi said:
Good thinking..... Grandfathering would be the right thing to do... People who lived their lives planning along the rules at the time should get the full benefit.... Thx for the reminder

I might not of had a problem with this before but.. My father has turned 75 and has to turn his rrsp investments into riff investment now when the market sucks, so guess what , the world change live with it.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
51,248
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PurpleMonkey said:
SSSSShhhhhhhhh......Guys please keep it down. If the SPs hear about this and Strike as well then we're fucked. :mad:
.......or not.
 

Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
2,046
221
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Lasttime said:
!!

Just one question - do you have a problem "grandfathering" some of the changes in benefits. .. worker working for 30 years has anticipated a certain retirement benefit. . should it change now that he's going out the door??


LT
Of course you cannot renege on a legal binding contract

Congress had to pay those executives their bonuses because it was in the contract to do so

Without legal obligation to fulfill a contract, no matter how distasteful, we have anarchy
 

Big Rig

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
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soulsphere said:
If someone says 25/hr im going to quit my fucking job and be a garbage man because that is stupid for the owrk they do.

They make $24
 
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