Ohio train derailment

[silentkisser]

This rail disaster is certainly troubling. I, like @mandrill, believe the EPA...for the most part. Yes, there are probably dead fish/birds/animals near the crash site. But hopefully they have contained it. But, we'll need journalists to keep on top of this to ensure the safety of these people, and the folks nearby.

Now, on the question of who is doing what, or not enough...Hard to say. I think Buttigieg should be making more public statements. I'm not certain what his powers are, but certainly he can demand (through agencies like the NTSB) to force rail carriers to inspect their braking systems, or what not. Maybe the GOP-led congress will act, and allow the Obama era rules to be enforced, including electronic pneumatic breaking systems....

Now, keep this in mind....About 9 years ago there was that crazy train derailment in Quebec, the Lac-Megantic rail disaster that killed 47 people in a fireball explosion...

I know lobbying in the US and Canada by the rail carriers has been very effective in watering down the the rules and oversight....Which leads to these types of disasters. How often do trains derail? Hard to say, but it does seem to happen with some frequency. Not all are going to be like East Palestine or Mississauga circa 1979, but imagine if airplanes crashed this often...I mean, they aviation industry faces serious oversight and safety concerns, so air travel is one of the safest ways to travel in Canada and the US (Africa and other parts of the world...not so much). Lord knows these rail jokers need to have something imposed on them, because they surely don't seem to give a fuck when 100 tons of rail cars flies into a stream or housing development...

 

[danmand]

Not so fast, mandrill.
Lets wait for the dust and ash to really settle and for larger testing to happen.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1625173156112613381

When vinyl chloride is burnt,. Besides hydrogen Chloride, you also get Phosgene, a dangerous gas.

 

[dirtyharry555]

This rail disaster is certainly troubling. I, like @mandrill, believe the EPA...for the most part. Yes, there are probably dead fish/birds/animals near the crash site. But hopefully they have contained it.

It's not contained and cannot be (scientists and modern technology can't perform miracles). Everything in the area is contaminated. The ground, water supply, rivers. Anyone in the vicinity has already inhaled the toxic air. They have cancer and an early death to look forward to.

 

[silentkisser]

They have cancer and an early death to look forward to.

Ah, living the dream!

 

[danmand]

It's not contained and cannot be (scientists and modern technology can't perform miracles). Everything in the area is contaminated. The ground, water supply, rivers. Anyone in the vicinity has already breathed in the toxic air. They have cancer and an early death to look forward to.

That is correct. Call in Erin Brockovich

 

[krealtarron]

Go ahead. Fix things.

There is nothing to fix. Except for maybe views like yours.

 

[explorerzip]

And of course who removed regulations regarding train safety that transport dangerous materials??

You guessed it the fat bully psycho Trump gop's party in 2018...

I think you give Trump way too much credit. The deregulation and consolidation trend has been going on for decades in every industry. Accidents like this were bound to happen even if Hillary got in.

 

[jalimon]

I think you give Trump way too much credit. The deregulation and consolidation trend has been going on for decades in every industry. Accidents like this were bound to happen even if Hillary got in.

The US criticized canada back in 2014 when canada went weaker on rail regulation then the US following the 2013 train catastrophe. Remember the american train company MMA derailed and killed 47 peoples and the half the downtown of Lac Megantic. All due to lack of regulations for proper train safety transporting dangerous content. These regulations were new and brought up under Obama. Trump's main goal was to destroy everything Obabma did. So do not fuck with me giving too much credit to Trump.

 

[danmand]

Ohio train derailment: How dangerous are the chemicals?

• • Published
    21 hours ago

Share

IMAGE SOURCE,DUSTIN FRANZ/AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Smoke billows from a derailed train car in East Palestine, Ohio
By Kayla Epstein
BBC News, New York

On 3 February, a Norfolk Southern freight train carrying several potentially dangerous chemicals derailed in East Palestine, Ohio. The accident has caused residents to fear for the safety of the air and water, though government officials say that both are now safe.
The US Environmental Protection Agency, which is involved in the response, published a list of the train's cargo. While some cars held more innocuous substances, including malt liquors, semolina and frozen vegetables, about 11 of them were carrying chemicals with potentially toxic effects. Some of those containers leaked or burned during the accident.
Some of the chemicals onboard that have caused concern are vinyl chloride, butyl acrylate, benzene, ethyl hexyl acrylate and ethylene glycol monobutyl ether.
Vinyl chloride and butyl acrylate were the primary two chemicals released in the incident, the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency told the Washington Post.

"There's no question that there are chemicals in the mix that have been associated with serious health effects, including cancer," Keeve Nachman, a professor of environmental health and engineering at Johns Hopkins University, told the BBC.
"What's really missing is information about how people come into contact with these chemicals in the air, drinking water or through soil."

Additionally, when burned, these chemicals can create new and potentially dangerous compounds, he said.
Residents in and around East Palestine have reported experiencing headaches, sore throats, and watery eyes. About 3,500 fish died off in the nearby creeks around the town after the incident, the Ohio Department of Natural Resources said on Tuesday. On Wednesday night, hundreds of angry residents gathered for a town hall in East Palestine to demand answers.
Though state and federal agencies have given the municipal water supply and air a clean bill of health, they have also encouraged residents to use private and well-water, to drink bottled water and avail themselves of free government testing. Ohio Governor Mike DeWine also suggested residents drink bottled water as a precaution.
Here's what we know about the chemicals on the train, their uses, and their potential impacts on people and the environment.
Vinyl chloride
Vinyl chloride is a colourless, odourless gas that is used to make PVC, a form of plastic used in many everyday objects.
However, vinyl chloride is also a known carcinogen and can cause negative impacts depending on the time and amount of exposure. It can cause headaches and nausea, or lead to serious conditions like liver cancer.

On 6 February, officials conducted a controlled release of vinyl chloride after temperatures in one of the freight carriages rose dangerously. Governor DeWine said the release was necessary to prevent an explosion, which could have blasted deadly shrapnel through the town.
The vinyl chloride release caused an ominous pillar of black smoke to rise high above East Palestine. Though officials said it was safe for residents to return a couple days later, environmental experts were more sceptical.
When vinyl chloride burns, it can release two toxic gases: hydrogen chloride and phosgene.
Butyl acrylate
Butyl acrylate is a colourless liquid with a fruit-like odour. It is used in the making of polymers, resins and paints.
Exposure can lead to irritation of the nose and eyes, nausea, vomiting and allergic reactions, according to the New Jersey Department of Health. Repeated exposure can cause lung cancer.
According to the EPA's disclosure about the train's cargo, an entire load of Butyl acrylate was lost in the crash to spills and fire.

Benzene
Benzene, a colourless or light-yellow liquid that can evaporate very quickly. It is one of the most commonly used chemicals in the US, and is used in common substances like plastic, resin, nylon and some forms of dyes, pesticides or detergents.
Benzene can also occur naturally, from volcanos or forest fires, and is a part of crude oil, gasoline and cigarette smoke, according to the US Centers for Disease Control.
Exposure to benzene through breathing or ingestion can cause symptoms like drowsiness, dizziness, tremors, vomiting or sleeplessness. Very high levels of exposure can lead to unconsciousness or death, per the CDC. Long-term exposure of a year or more could cause issues with blood, bone marrow or the immune system.
Ethyl hexyl acrylate
Ethyl hexyl acrylate is a compound. It is a colourless liquid with an acrid smell, according to the CDC, that can pose dangers if inhaled, consumed or absorbed through the skin or eyes.
The compound can irritate the eyes, skin and respiratory system.
Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether
Another compound on board the train, ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, can be used in paints and varnish. It is highly flammable, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Contact with the compound's vapours can irritate the eyes and nose, or lead to nausea, headaches, dizziness and vomiting.
Two main risks stemmed from chemical exposure, Mr Nachman said. Long-term, lower-level exposure to harmful chemicals could result in issues like cancer. Meanwhile, shorter-term, highly-concentrated exposures could lead to the symptoms mentioned above, but also risks for pregnant women and developing children.
The data presented by officials so far did "not paint a clear enough picture of potential exposures," Mr Nachman said.
"The bottom line is this: we need to know if there are continuing chemical releases, what they are, the ways people may be exposed - air, water, and in their homes - and how we can eliminate their exposures," Mr Nachman said.

 

[danmand]

 

[Valcazar]

We are. I'm part of a movement involved with accelerating the spiral to the bottom to build it back up.

You and Butler1000 should hook up.

 

[mandrill]

This rail disaster is certainly troubling. I, like @mandrill, believe the EPA...for the most part. Yes, there are probably dead fish/birds/animals near the crash site. But hopefully they have contained it. But, we'll need journalists to keep on top of this to ensure the safety of these people, and the folks nearby.

Now, on the question of who is doing what, or not enough...Hard to say. I think Buttigieg should be making more public statements. I'm not certain what his powers are, but certainly he can demand (through agencies like the NTSB) to force rail carriers to inspect their braking systems, or what not. Maybe the GOP-led congress will act, and allow the Obama era rules to be enforced, including electronic pneumatic breaking systems....

Now, keep this in mind....About 9 years ago there was that crazy train derailment in Quebec, the Lac-Megantic rail disaster that killed 47 people in a fireball explosion...

I know lobbying in the US and Canada by the rail carriers has been very effective in watering down the the rules and oversight....Which leads to these types of disasters. How often do trains derail? Hard to say, but it does seem to happen with some frequency. Not all are going to be like East Palestine or Mississauga circa 1979, but imagine if airplanes crashed this often...I mean, they aviation industry faces serious oversight and safety concerns, so air travel is one of the safest ways to travel in Canada and the US (Africa and other parts of the world...not so much). Lord knows these rail jokers need to have something imposed on them, because they surely don't seem to give a fuck when 100 tons of rail cars flies into a stream or housing development...

I believe that the heightened safety measures were legislatively repealed. As in GONE!

 

[explorerzip]

The US criticized canada back in 2014 when canada went weaker on rail regulation then the US following the 2013 train catastrophe. Remember the american train company MMA derailed and killed 47 peoples and the half the downtown of Lac Megantic. All due to lack of regulations for proper train safety transporting dangerous content. These regulations were new and brought up under Obama. Trump's main goal was to destroy everything Obabma did. So do not fuck with me giving too much credit to Trump.

Incidents like this don't exist in a vacuum. I'm not a Trump fan, but how industries operate and evolve over time has a part in this. We have to get under the hood of the industry to really understand how something like this happens and can be prevented. Consolidation has led to very few large companies controlling the market and the regulators under multiple administrations went along with it. The industry is in a bad place where fewer people are operating trains, more people are retiring and fewer are interested in railroad careers. We can blame the regulations or lack thereof all we want, but these deep systemic issues need to be solved. Regulations don't work without the right people in place.

All this being said, I am curious how someone becomes a railroad engineer. I assume it works the same as an airline pilot where you need to accumulate a minimum amount of hours before you can take the controls of a train. Here's an interesting video about the number of hours required to be a pilot that could be applicable to the railroad industry too.

It could be that the regulators might increase the amount of hours that a railroad engineer requires, but it might not increase safety.

 

[mandrill]

This rail disaster is certainly troubling. I, like @mandrill, believe the EPA...for the most part. Yes, there are probably dead fish/birds/animals near the crash site. But hopefully they have contained it. But, we'll need journalists to keep on top of this to ensure the safety of these people, and the folks nearby.

Now, on the question of who is doing what, or not enough...Hard to say. I think Buttigieg should be making more public statements. I'm not certain what his powers are, but certainly he can demand (through agencies like the NTSB) to force rail carriers to inspect their braking systems, or what not. Maybe the GOP-led congress will act, and allow the Obama era rules to be enforced, including electronic pneumatic breaking systems....

Now, keep this in mind....About 9 years ago there was that crazy train derailment in Quebec, the Lac-Megantic rail disaster that killed 47 people in a fireball explosion...

I know lobbying in the US and Canada by the rail carriers has been very effective in watering down the the rules and oversight....Which leads to these types of disasters. How often do trains derail? Hard to say, but it does seem to happen with some frequency. Not all are going to be like East Palestine or Mississauga circa 1979, but imagine if airplanes crashed this often...I mean, they aviation industry faces serious oversight and safety concerns, so air travel is one of the safest ways to travel in Canada and the US (Africa and other parts of the world...not so much). Lord knows these rail jokers need to have something imposed on them, because they surely don't seem to give a fuck when 100 tons of rail cars flies into a stream or housing development...

Why would the EPA lie?....

The crash isn't their fault. It's a high profile event that could be milked to boost their prestige and enhance their clout. Even if infiltrated, they are in an adversarial role to potential large polluters.

It would strike me that the EPA has every reason NOT to minimize what has happened here.

 

[Valcazar]

That is correct. Call in Erin Brockovich

She's already involved.

 

[mandrill]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626574287233744896

 

[Butler1000]

This rail disaster is certainly troubling. I, like @mandrill, believe the EPA...for the most part. Yes, there are probably dead fish/birds/animals near the crash site. But hopefully they have contained it. But, we'll need journalists to keep on top of this to ensure the safety of these people, and the folks nearby.

Now, on the question of who is doing what, or not enough...Hard to say. I think Buttigieg should be making more public statements. I'm not certain what his powers are, but certainly he can demand (through agencies like the NTSB) to force rail carriers to inspect their braking systems, or what not. Maybe the GOP-led congress will act, and allow the Obama era rules to be enforced, including electronic pneumatic breaking systems....

Now, keep this in mind....About 9 years ago there was that crazy train derailment in Quebec, the Lac-Megantic rail disaster that killed 47 people in a fireball explosion...

I know lobbying in the US and Canada by the rail carriers has been very effective in watering down the the rules and oversight....Which leads to these types of disasters. How often do trains derail? Hard to say, but it does seem to happen with some frequency. Not all are going to be like East Palestine or Mississauga circa 1979, but imagine if airplanes crashed this often...I mean, they aviation industry faces serious oversight and safety concerns, so air travel is one of the safest ways to travel in Canada and the US (Africa and other parts of the world...not so much). Lord knows these rail jokers need to have something imposed on them, because they surely don't seem to give a fuck when 100 tons of rail cars flies into a stream or housing development...

Not probably. There is footage all over the Net of hundreds of fish dead in streams, birds dead on the ground. Pets dead or near death. People have said that just going back into town for personal stuff has caused eyes to water and coughing. This is AFTER they have said it is safeto go in.

No partisan. This is an environmental disaster that will poison the water table over a large area.

More disturbing is the mass media lack of coverage at the beginning. And lack of govt action. This railroad co made 12 billion, and spent ten on stock buyback. They need to be called to task, mass fines, as well as govtvsupported lawsuits for the people affected.

 

[danmand]

Why would the EPA lie?....

Because most people are like you: believing anything they say.

Or, more seriously, the EPA probably approved the burning off of the Vinyl Chloride.

 

[Jubee]

I think this is going to be one of these things that someone will do a documentary about 30 years from now and our kids will watch it and ask "why the fuck didn't you do anything about this?" Kinda like 3 mile island.

Like 9/11... "ooops! 20+ years later"

 

[Jubee]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1626324158417190914

Hannity is on the same level as Jake Tapper. Both are corporate hacks.