NYPD chokehold case

[CWipes]

Basic handcuffing techniques include various wrist locks, armbars and strikes to major muscle groups to induce pain compliance. A choke should be reserved for when lethal force is justifiable, but using the firearm isn't. The police in this scenario escalated the situation and used a lethal technique (which isn't even taught in that agency) when it was not justifiable to do so.

Was the subject viscously curb stomping someone? No, a choke was inappropriate and excessive; it is never taught as a control technique for that level of resistance.

So you're saying that they should have beaten him in to submission instead?

What I'm saying is that if you can't do the time don't do the crime.

If you're an asthmatic you really shouldn't be selling cigarettes and if you've been arrested 30 previous times over 30 years you really should be somewhat familiar with the police handcuff procedure, as they apparently let you go 30 previous times.

 

[nobody123]

You're seriously dense. They were there arresting him, he chose to resist.

And therefore he must die? That's one fucked up world view. As for him "resisting" and being "under arrest", you make me wonder what video you saw that no one else has watched.

Meanwhile, the hits keep on coming: http://www.inquisitr.com/1654588/ru...led-by-white-police-officer-in-phoenix-video/

 

[cunning linguist]

So you're saying that they should have beaten him in to submission instead?

Striking the right areas; major muscle groups like the quadriceps is justifiable and lower on the use of force model than a choke, which again is lethal force. Bruised is better than dead.

 

[CWipes]

Would it have been reasonable and within the police officers' rights to shoot him in the head to subdue him?

Ya know I didn't see any officers with their weapons drawn. However if he (E. Gardner) had pulled a weapon such as a gun or knife then I could see them justified in using lethal force such as drawing their weapons.

 

[ZenSouljah]

Stop trying to twist shit, I never said he deserved to die and I'm sure the officers didn't think he would either. He died because of underlying medical issues caused by his arrest, mainly the weight applied to his chest while on the ground. Shame it happened, but it's a shame he didn't just comply.

 

[CWipes]

Striking the right areas; major muscle groups like the quadriceps is justifiable and lower on the use of force model than a choke, which again is lethal force. Bruised is better than dead.

Bruised is better than dead. But ya know what is even better? Actually listening to the officer and getting arrested, then make bail and then get released. He (E. Gardner) did it 30 times before.

Ya know not all repeat criminal offenders are saints.

 

[cunning linguist]

Bruised is better than dead. But ya know what is even better. Actually listening to the officer and getting arrested, then make bail and then get released. He (E. Gardner) did it 30 times before.

Ya know not all repeat criminal offenders are saints.

I don't give a shit if the subject was guilty or not, that's not what I'm arguing, the police responded with excessive force. The police don't have a license to kill, there must be accountability, there must be reason and justification. Resisting arrest should not be a death sentence.

 

[CWipes]

And what I think is that is that you should give a shit. Criminals aren't saints.

If you commit a crime, expect to be detained, EVEN if you don't want to be detained.

If you have a prior medical condition then you really don't want to get in to a fight with police.

If you've been arrested 30 previous times, what difference does 1 more time make especially with such a small charge.

 

[cunning linguist]

And what I think is that is that you should give a shit. Criminals aren't saints.

If you commit a crime, expect to be detained, EVEN if you don't want to be detained.

If you have a prior medical condition then you really don't want to get in to a fight with police.

If you've been arrested 30 previous times, what difference does 1 more time make especially with such a small charge.

Saint or not, his crime was not great enough to be punishable by death. Detaining some one who is actively resisting doesn't require or justify lethal force. Was anyone else at immediate risk of grievous bodily harm or death, police included? No, use of force training dictates that the wrong level of force was used. Enforcing the law doesn't put them above it, if police can't follow rules, why should anyone else?

 

[jazzpig]

Stop trying to twist shit, I never said he deserved to die and I'm sure the officers didn't think he would either. He died because of underlying medical issues caused by his arrest, mainly the weight applied to his chest while on the ground. Shame it happened, but it's a shame he didn't just comply.

Yea, a real shame. It's plain to see that you're really moved by it.
And you're the one twisting shit. The point, which You are ignoring, is the fact that it was unreasonable force.
They would need to be held accountable under ANY circumstance, whether Garner died or not.
The fact that the unreasonable force caused his death brings it to another level, and those officers need to be brought to justice.
What do you think involuntary manslaughter is?





Manslaughter
The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

 

[CWipes]

Saint or not, his crime was not great enough to be punishable by death. Detaining some one who is actively resisting doesn't require or justify lethal force. Was anyone else at immediate risk of grievous bodily harm or death, police included? No, use of force training dictates that the wrong level of force was used. Enforcing the law doesn't put them above it, if police can't follow rules, why should anyone else?

I agree, he shouldn't have died. Do you disagree that he shouldn't have resisted being handcuffed?

 

[nobody123]

I agree, he shouldn't have died. Do you disagree that he shouldn't have resisted being handcuffed?

No. Do you agree that he shouldn't have worn yellow socks? Because he really shouldn't have. It's a fashion crime. And for some reason, I think that is crucial and of equal relevance to the fact that HE WAS FUCKING MURDERED. Idiot.

 

[cunning linguist]

I agree, he shouldn't have died. Do you disagree that he shouldn't have resisted being handcuffed?

Lethal force should not have been used, active resistance does not justify that level of force.

 

[CWipes]

No. Do you agree that he shouldn't have worn yellow socks? Because he really shouldn't have. It's a fashion crime. And for some reason, I think that is crucial and of equal relevance to the fact that HE WAS FUCKING MURDERED. Idiot.

What's wrong with yellow socks?

If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

If you have asthma, don't fight with police when they want to handcuff you.

He should have learned that at least once the 30 previous arrests over 30 years.

 

[CWipes]

Lethal force should not have been used, active resistance does not justify that level of force.

You just said that they should have beaten him. The guy had asthma and had been arrested 30 previous times. He had to be familiar with the arrest procedure before. They let him go 30 previous times over 30 years.

 

[nobody123]

If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

If you have asthma, don't fight with police when they want to handcuff you.

He should have learned that at least once the 30 previous arrests over 30 years.

YEs yes. Whatever. But the socks, man. Do you agree about the socks or not? Why are you not focusing on this absolutely critical detail of the incident?

 

[CWipes]

YEs yes. Whatever. But the socks, man. Do you agree about the socks or not? Why are you not focusing on this absolutely critical detail of the incident?

Dude, stop peeing on your socks.

 

[cunning linguist]

You just said that they should have beaten him. The guy had asthma and had been arrested 30 previous times. He had to be familiar with the arrest procedure before. They let him go 30 previous times over 30 years.

Certain strikes to certain areas would have been more appropriate than using lethal force. You're basically supporting summary execution with no due process or recourse.

 

[ZenSouljah]

Funny, I didn't see lethal force being used, I saw cops trying to affect the arrest of a man much larger than them, who was resisting arrest.

 

[CWipes]

Certain strikes to certain areas would have been more appropriate than using lethal force. You're basically supporting summary execution with no due process or recourse.

You're saying that everyone who gets detained dies? Cause I've been detained by PD and i talked my way out without dying. Have you ever been arrested or detained by PD?

What I'm saying is that resisting PD when they are trying to detain you is stupid.

I'd rather not also be beaten either. I prefer talking.