NHLPA...take it or leave it

[plyrs99]

well, i have to say, i am totally against the players in this lockout, but...

gary bettman, you have made a huge mistake. even if the NHLPA decides to accept this proposal, shoving something down another's throat, will always come back to bite you in the ass. and $42.5 million? cmon gary, and the owners for that matter, you could have extended an olive branch here, and went to $45 or $46 per. while i agree with what gary said, that there is no more time for going back and forth, i disagree with his take it or leave it offer, just for the fact that he could have reached a little bit more with the cap figure.

i really have no idea how the NHLPA is going to take this one. we shall see, probably way before the 11:00 am deadline imposed by bettman. i would not be surprised to see a swift reply by the NHLPA, maybe even as soon as midnite tonite.

this is a negotiation gary, not a dictatorship! you want peace with the players, and the union, you offer olive branches and offerings, not ultimatums and not meeting at least halfway.

for the first time in this lockout, i say to the owners, bad move.

Plyrs99

we really are at the end now, let's see which way it goes. i just dont see how the season can start so soon, with so many players still not even under contract, and with so many contracts to be signed and get approved by the NHL, before the player can even suit up for his team. with the ink being barely dry on this CBA, if it gets signed, agents and the NHLPA wont even have any time to see how to negotiate anything for the player. look at the boston bruins, i think they have about 4 or 5 guys under contract as of now....how are they going to sign the rest of the team in less than a week? you think their key FA, goalie andrew raycroft is not going to bargain for his best deal? that will still take time. there are alot of teams, and alot of players in this very predicament. i think bill watters made mention of this in one of his radio shows. i really am at a loss here....

make no mistake, this is a major crossroads for the league and the players. the players really need to heed bettman's warning shot, that they will not get anything better than this deal if the season gets cancelled, the next time around. that is no bluff!

 

[Esco!]

Does anyone else feel like putting their fist through the TV every time Bettman's on the tube????
Or am I alone in that????

 

[topcat]

Does anyone else feel like putting their fist through the TV every time Bettman's on the tube????
Or am I alone in that????

Your not alone. The tiny perfect, errrrrrrr midget american might just ruin
the game. While I agree with the owners in this dispute if they lose
the season because he won,t move off the 42.5 million hard cap. That
being if the players respond with say a "45 million hard cap" He should
be gone if they can,t negotiate over 3 million. Considering they came
all this way with the players finally "agreeing" to a cap.

 

[Esco!]

P.S. Did anyone else see Chris Chelios' Rant where he doesn't mention Bettman by name? Pretty sad that a 43 year old man could act so juvenile but then again considering the source well.....

No, I didnt see that rant.
Got a link for it???
Or if its short can you post it????

 

[dickfocus]

Im totally with the players on this and i know im in the minority but fact is the PA has caved on the cap plus a 25% roll back the owners have done nothing to suggest there serious about playing hockey ever again. If the number comes in at 45 million its more than fair especially considering theres no bottom cap either, so ifur spending 22 million or 25 million then go ahead and do just that. If the owners are not willing to come up with a plan to share revenues then i can only see one thing eventually and that is contraction which will probably be a good thing.

 

[BlahBlah]

Agree completley with Dickfocus. The owners have built this mess and the players have done everything they can to help correct it. The owners are not budging.
As Dickfocus said, the $49 million is just a ceiling. If you can't afford to go that high, don't. It's very simple.
I want to drive a Porsche but you know why I don't buy one... because I can't afford it. No one is putting a gun to the head of the owners to go over any number they want. Hell, the cap is for $49 million, every team can budget to spend only $30, the ball is completley in their court.

 

[happygrump]

screw'em

Owners, players, media sportscasters... I'd like to see them try to explain to the fellow who's making minimum wage sweeping the arena or sharpening skates or making sticks or selling peanuts or cleaning up the crap left behind after a game why they can't come to an agreement. They're the ones who have been made to suffer through this whole mess.
Fark'em all.
Every
Last
One

 

[BlahBlah]

If under Goodenow's leadership, the players are making the kind of money they are making, why would they fire him? If I'm Tie Domi scoring 10 goals a year and making $3 mill per year for it, I will follow Goodenow wherever he takes me. Or Wade Belak making $1 mill a year to do nothing more than occupy space on the ice, I'm naming all my children Bob. Don't forget, they're being locked out, they're not on strike.
The $200 million is correct (actually $195 -- $6.5 per team x 30 teams), but how many teams will actually get that high? At $40 mill is a luxury tax that would discourage teams from going that high.
Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world, parts of the system the NHL proposes makes sense, I just refuse to blame the players for taking the money that was offered to them and for fighting to keep it. And I believe they have sacrificed far, far more than the owners have and far more then the majority of their members would agree to.
And both sides are already drawing their offers off the table. Bettman said the no-linkage deal is off, and likewise the PA is expected to remove the 24% roll-back and acceptance of a cap. They are going back to square one.
This is far from over and if history has proven anything, it's that they will wait until the last minute to negotiate again.
Go Blue Jays!

 

[dreamer]

I just refuse to blame the players for taking the money that was offered to them and for fighting to keep it.

However, you can certainly blame them for not seeing the light that the league was losing money and that they were serious about making changes

I have to admit, I am on the side of the owners on this issue. The players received great deals in the past because short sited owners thought they would land the TV deals, fill rinks etc etc that would allow them to afford such salaries.

Does anyone believe the NHL would blow a whole season if they were making money. I do not. Players count on the deep pockets and the desire to win a Stanley Cup by the owners to allow salaries greater than the market will bear.

 

[matrix2004]

Im totally with the players on this and i know im in the minority but fact is the PA has caved on the cap plus a 25% roll back

What choice do the players have but to eventually give in to the cap? Like I said in other posts, the owners have ALL the leverage if they're willing to wait it out....the longer, the more in their favour. The players would eventually realize 'you can't bite the hand that feeds you' - even if that hand is attached to a cheap asshole who periodically likes to bitch slap you.

As for the 25% rollback? I think even the players know that alot of the current player contracts are over-valued. I mean- $5 mil a yr for a guy like Martin Lapointe?!?! He has 1 decent year playing on an offensive juggernaut of a team and he's worth $5 mil? The list of similararily inflated contracts go on and on. I don't blame the players for taking the money offered to them in the first place, but some of them know they're getting more than what they deserve.

Regardless of which side you're on, it's clear Goodenow has done a poor job of leading his union. He needs to go. Bettman is just as incompetant, but he looks less so than Goodenow because he's on the side w/ all the power. They now have all summer to get something done. For the sake of NEXT season, the sooner the better.

 

[Bud Plug]

Blame is not the point of the exercise

For collective bargaining to work, the players should be able to attempt to maximize their salaries, but only to a point where the owners still make the money you'd expect in return for an 80 million dollar investment. These aren't "not for profit" enterprises.

The owners must be able to make the management decisions that determine their own profit points. Those decisions include: 1) how many teams should be in the league, 2) what sort of television or other media deals are appropriate, 3) how many players should be on each roster, and 4) how and whether to share profits with each other. There is no sense in players, or their union, opining on any of this. Frankly, none of them have any business experience or acumen, and its not their money anyway!

Who cares how the league got to the financial mess it's in now?! For those who love hockey, all that matters is whether there is a way to revive it.

Who cares whether the players are greedy (or fair, or charitable for that matter)?! Charitable, but dumb, people can make all sorts of disastrous business decisions.

Who cares whether Bettman has an unappealing personality or poor PR skills?! The real issue is whether the league position on what it would take to be successful is correct.

In my view, the players should make a modest conterproposal (one that is too close to the tabled deal for the majority of owners to walk away), but effectively they should take the deal. Realistically speaking, the evidence supports that the owners need this sort of deal to be financially viable. Maybe in a perfect world owners could behave responsibly without controls, but we're not living in that world. Realistically speaking, the players aren't going to make anywhere close to the kind of money that's on the table playing in Europe. The players have already lost a lot of money that they'll never recover. The same cannot necessarily be said of all owners. The unprofitable clubs have actually made a modest sum through distribution of the NHL lockout fund (that's certainly better than their usually annual losses).

So, don't get mad at Bettman or Goodenow over their personality quirks or motivations or negotiating tactics. There's no sense blaming anyone. Players simply need to start crunching some numbers to see the sense in taking the deal that's on the table.

 

[BlahBlah]

After seeing Bad Kat's pic, I don't remember what the hell we were discussing nor do I care, I am on her side regardless of the topic.

 

[happygrump]

Fire Bettman.

I nominate Badkat to be the NHL boss.

Who's with me?

 

[BlahBlah]

Yay for Bad Kat as NHL boss... and my boss too, would luv to serve her.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

I'm taping my stick as we speak...

 

[elmo]

Kathleen gives me a tight jock...

 

[n_v]

Agree completley with Dickfocus. The owners have built this mess and the players have done everything they can to help correct it. The owners are not budging.
As Dickfocus said, the $49 million is just a ceiling. If you can't afford to go that high, don't. It's very simple.
I want to drive a Porsche but you know why I don't buy one... because I can't afford it. No one is putting a gun to the head of the owners to go over any number they want. Hell, the cap is for $49 million, every team can budget to spend only $30, the ball is completley in their court.

This post completely illustrates the lack of understanding some people have about sports business.

 

[dickfocus]

Thanks NV at least ur not taking cheap shots at me, LOL i would assume that u have never been part of a union or a desire to be part of one which is fine and therefore i guess u dont beleive in a negotiation taking place, u feel the players should just take whatever is crammed down there throat and smile about it. U can say all u want but the players gave way more to try then save the season then the owners did and i really beleive that the reason they are being cast as villains is because people know the salarys they make and there names and there faces, owners dont have a face to them other than Gary. This deal would have been so done if not for the bottom feeder teams that shouldnt have a franchise in the first place u dont think the leafs or philly or detroit were drooling at this kind of deal, N V again i say to u its philosophical differences between us i come from a union household beleive in it strongly and am very involved in mine u obviously do not like them which is fine totally entitled to ur opinion.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

This post completely illustrates the lack of understanding some people have about sports business.

Agreed.....I certianly had to laugh at the comment, "the players have done everything they can to try and correct it".

The players have done nothing except go overseas and steal jobs (350 and counting) from other leagues union members. What's worse is this bunch of hypocrites wouldn't play in the NHL if there was a salary cap but went to play in other leagues where they made far less money and each of those leagues has a salary cap.

The players bear no financial risk in the NHL and yet they feel entitled to take home over 60% of the revenues from the game.


Also, the cap the players propsed at $49million was only a soft cap...teams could still go over and you end up paying a luxury tax.

The purpose of a cap is to try and create parody and cost certainty....so that every owner can field a team just as profitable and competitive as the next. What's wrong with that?

Its interesting that the only two major leagues sports with a cap (NBA and NFL) are also the financially healthiest leagues and have the highest average salary per player of any of the major north american sports leagues.

Small market teams (like Pittsburgh or Nashville in the NHL) for example can't afford to spend what other teams do. They then run the risk of not being competitive and lose more fans, etc and eventually end up in bankruptcy or relocating the franchise (see Quebec Nordiques, Hartford Whalers, Winnipeg Jets). Revenue sharing and a salary cap will mitigate this problem.

The Montreal Expos are a prime example of what happens when you can no longer field a competitive team. Look at the Blue Jays. Every game for years was a sellout when they were competitive.....now what is the point in following the team seeing as they will never compete with the Red Sox and Yankees.

Sports leagues cannot survive solely on the back of "diehard" fans. You have to be able to bring in the casual fan and casual fans don't follow teams that can never win.

 

[dickfocus]

Thats the whole problem Kathleen neither side trusts each others numbers and Bettman just antagonises the players with these ultimatums this is supposed to be a negotiation but i really beleive he is trying to save face from awful expansion citys they went into and new owners he obviously made promises to in order for them to buy franchises.