New Staircase in Etobicoke

[Butler1000]

So you didn't obey the regulations. See, that's the thing. Obeying the regulations costs money and time. Whether you like it or not, these are the rules and you are not in a position to say what is or what is not required or necessary.

But here's the thing to remember......consider this a learning experience.....

If you hire some guy to work on your house, if nothing else, make SURE that he has WSIB. Ask to see his clearance certificate. The reason is simple. It protects YOU. If you hire a guy for cash to do your roof, or do your windows, or whatever, you need to do 2 things minimum.

1. Get a copy of his WSIB Clearance.

2. If he's working at more than 10 feet off the ground, get a copy of his guy's "Working at Heights Certification" with the Ministry of Labour.

This protects YOU. If you hire Johnnie Cash, and he falls while working on your house, you could find yourself very liable for his injuries. Just ask former BC Premiere Gordon Campbell about that.

Now in fairness to you, working on deck, you're probably not 10 feet off the ground and WSIB is a little murky when it comes to residential.

However, don't kid yourself. If something happens when a guy is working on your house, you will be in the system and because you own your own house, they figure you have money. (If you had fuck all, you probably would not have to worry.)

Last time they went up to do the roof it was all above board. Crossing fingers no one has to go up again before I sell it upon retirement.

And yes. No one above ten feet but they were compliant. I hired them from a another house building job via a friend who had to go through the whole process. So all the contractors were up to date.

I don't hire shysters. Not for my house. I pay fair value.

 

[jcpro]

They said that it will be done for $10,000 but I think that is only because of all the bad PR they got. The unions will fcuk us on another project so they will still get the extra $140,000.

That job can easily be done around 10k. All you need is four concrete posts and a prefab steel stairs that run between 3k-5k. The distance is so short that the structure will not need any extra support aside the four points and the stairs are mostly rated for at least 1 ton. More than enough for this application.

 

[Samranchoi]

They should name the stairs after Adi Astl as it was only because of his actions that anything was done.

 

[Ref]

If you hire some guy to work on your house, if nothing else, make SURE that he has WSIB. Ask to see his clearance certificate. The reason is simple. It protects YOU. If you hire a guy for cash to do your roof, or do your windows, or whatever, you need to do 2 things minimum.

1. Get a copy of his WSIB Clearance.

You are so right on this. I am familiar with the WSIB process from a professional point of view, however on a personal basis when I hired a company to re-shingle my roof I insisted on the WSIB clearance certificate.

People who hire contractors need to know their rights and be aware of the potential liabilities.

No matter what they are doing and even if you are paying cash, still insist on getting a copy of the clearance certificate. If the contractor cannot supply you with one, they are not covered (or have not paid their insurance). Walk away and hire someone else.

 

[Ref]

They should name the stairs after Adi Astl as it was only because of his actions that anything was done.

That would actually be quite funny.

What would be ironic is if some schmuck breaks an ankle falling down the stairs the first day they are opened.

 

[explorerzip]

Further west from this park, there is a slope that students from the original Michael Power high school site used to climb up to get to the Islington subway parking lot. There's obviously a staircase now, but I wonder how much it cost? https://goo.gl/maps/44xWBYn9sLB2

The people that chose to climb down the slope at Tom Riley park knew that it was not safe regardless if the home-made stairs were there or not. People were just being lazy by climbing over the barrier at the parking lot and down the slope. There is another stairwell with access to the park around the corner at Aberfoyle Crescent. You do have walk further, but at least it's a lot safer.

 

[MattRoxx]

They should name the stairs after Adi Astl as it was only because of his actions that anything was done.

Putting up the plaque will cost additional $50,000 LOL.

They could build fancier stairs Matt, but it will cost more. Concrete or pre-cast would always be used, including stone if fancier.

I'm not saying they need to have Sugar Beach umbrellas shading the stairs. But it shouldn't cost too much more to have some unique feature or design to fit the surroundings. The city's already paying for a designer and engineer, surely they could curve the stairs or embed some graphic elements without it costing much more.

This reminds me, there is a section of the Lower Don bike path on the south side of Pottery Road where it splits to the Bayview bike path. A small connecting section maybe 10 meters long, has been closed and under construction since last summer. Like, how long does it fucking take! It looks finished but remains closed.

Also there were sections of the Lower Don that were closed to the public with some fencing and yellow tape and people simply went through or around.

 

[Keebler Elf]

I have no idea if the city's estimate is gouging or not but those makeshift stairs look downright dangerous and if I were the city I'd condemn and rip them out too. That's a lawsuit just waiting to happen. All because some lazy fuck can't walk an extra 100 feet to the park entrance.

 

[GPIDEAL]

I have no idea if the city's estimate is gouging or not but those makeshift stairs look downright dangerous and if I were the city I'd condemn and rip them out too. That's a lawsuit just waiting to happen. All because some lazy fuck can't walk an extra 100 feet to the park entrance.

True dat!

 

[GPIDEAL]

The city has agreed over the years to be bound to pretty much every construction union out there.

There was a link within the link that I posted that stipulates which trades must be unionized to carry out City of Toronto work.

It's virtually every trade, except labourers which must be unionized (unless you are doing work at the CNE, then you must use unionized labourers too)

But it's a catch 22 because any GC who is certified with any construction trade union can ONLY use unionized labour no matter what as per any collective agreement. For example, Ellis Don cannot bid any job being bound to LiUNA, and then go ahead and hire a nonunionized electrical subcontractor. They will shut them down, grieve it, end up before the Ontario Labour Relations Board and they will lose big time.

The City can get rid of the Fair Wage Office and all the agreements with the various construction unions to which they are bonded to, HOWEVER, it would take an act of Council and a determined mayor because the construction unions would fight it tooth and nail. At the end of the day, the politicians pander to the Unions because they want their votes. By voting to eliminate the union strangle hold on the City of Toronto, that politician at best will gain a big fat "meh" from an ignorant general population whilst definitely incurring the wrath of the union rank and file. So the Fair Wage Office and all its union cock sucking is pretty much here to stay.

Very true!!!

We did work for PCL (we are a unionized trade contractor) for the NPS rehabilitation project and for Mississauga City Hall. These cities don't approve all extras, unfortunately.

I think Ledcor Construction can use non-union trades but they might not be able to bid on public projects requiring union trades.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Did your "professional" Contractors carry 10 million dollars in insurance?

What about bonds? Did they have to give you bid bonds, material and performance bonds to 100 percent of the cost of the work?

Did they give you a 2 year Maintenance guarantee?

Did you get a structural Engineer to provide you with signed and sealed drawings, a detailed specification, tender, and an Engineers cost estimate?

Were your Contractors all unionized? The City of Toronto's Fair Wage Office requires that only unionized Construction Companies be able to bid on City of Toronto Construction projects. Not only that, they specify which locals must be used as subtrades. For example, a General Contractor, despite being certified with LiUNA local 183 cannot use local 183 iron workers, he MUST use local 721 iron workers. Do you have those constraints?

Do you even adhere to the Fair Wage Office of the city of Toronto? (Or did you just pay cash?)

Did you require your Contractors to be COR certified?

Did you ask your "professional". Contractors for copies of their Health and Safety Policy?

Did you ask them for a copy of their most recent WSIB clearance certificate? For that matter, we're your professional Contractors even subscribers to WSIB?

Did you use a Toronto Hydro approved Electrical Contractor to do the work?

Did you obtain all necessary building permits?

What about Certificates from the Electrical Safety Authority?

Did you get a permit from the Electrical Safety Authority?

What about TSSA? Did you get the permit and inspection done for the gas work from TSSA?

Did you have the work inspected as it progressed by the Engineer?

No?



You don't know the cost of things.

The boys from the City do. Their estimate is probably very close to what it will cost.

Lastly, a job like this would be tendered out. I don't think the city would undertake this itself.

You also have to have a Metro License to do City work, unless you work as a trade under a GC who is licensed.

 

[GPIDEAL]

LOL,

Yes, everything on my list would be applicable if you wanted to build your deck as per City of Toronto regulations. In fact, there are probably more. Better yet, if your deck was near a ravine or watercourse. It would take you years to get your permits.

I'm not joking.

Set of stairs or not, everything on my list would re required for the City to hire a Contractor to build a set of stairs. (Well, maybe not COR Certification, I'm not sure whether the City demands COR certification yet or not, TTC does and so does Metrolinx and takes about a hundred grand and 2 years worth of investment to get it. Ooops, looks like the City is moving to COR Certification as well.

And even the construction of "just a set of stairs" is in fact covered in the Ontario Building Code.

So bottom line, I will infer from your post that your answer to all of my questions is a big fat NO.

So really, you comparing your deck project to a City of Toronto public works contract really isn't the same thing now is it.

But answer me one question.....

Didja even get a permit?

Actually, answer me 2 questions.....

Were your "professional contractors" covered by WSIB? (Did you even think to ask?) (WSIB isn't that tough to get, but it is red tape, you can't fly under the radar like the good old days, and it makes working for cash real tough.)

So true about the WSIB requirement.

I have to remind that all subs that we use (even certain consultants), be WSIB cleared, or else we withhold 10% until they provide a Clearance Certificate, lest we get stuck with the costs after being audited.

(As you know James, nowadays, ANY construction contractor must be registered with the WSIB - it's mandatory).

Independent truckers are told to either provide a clearance certificate, or fill out and submit for review, an Independent Operator Questionnaire furnished by the WSIB to confirm that they don't need to get coverage, as long as they are truly independent of the business that engages them for hire.

 

[GPIDEAL]

So you didn't obey the regulations. See, that's the thing. Obeying the regulations costs money and time. Whether you like it or not, these are the rules and you are not in a position to say what is or what is not required or necessary.

But here's the thing to remember......consider this a learning experience.....

If you hire some guy to work on your house, if nothing else, make SURE that he has WSIB. Ask to see his clearance certificate. The reason is simple. It protects YOU. If you hire a guy for cash to do your roof, or do your windows, or whatever, you need to do 2 things minimum.

1. Get a copy of his WSIB Clearance.

2. If he's working at more than 10 feet off the ground, get a copy of his guy's "Working at Heights Certification" with the Ministry of Labour.

This protects YOU. If you hire Johnnie Cash, and he falls while working on your house, you could find yourself very liable for his injuries. Just ask former BC Premiere Gordon Campbell about that.

Now in fairness to you, working on deck, you're probably not 10 feet off the ground and WSIB is a little murky when it comes to residential.

However, don't kid yourself. If something happens when a guy is working on your house, you will be in the system and because you own your own house, they figure you have money. (If you had fuck all, you probably would not have to worry.)

James, I've checked this point in the past with my WSIB consultant, and a homeowner does NOT need to get a clearance certificate from a residential renovator. The renovator should have liability insurance for your protection though.

I've confirmed this in the WSIB website => www.wsib.on.ca/WSIBPortal/faces/WSIBManualPage?cGUID=14-02-19...


Or Google WSIB Operational Policy Manual document 14-02-19.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Regardless there were people falling down the embankment because there were no stairs in that location from the city and someone even broke their hand. So is anyone suing the city for that? The city didn't want to pay and had some outlandish quotes. It took someone making stairs for the city to even consider getting a cheaper quote and doing something about it. I'm sure he wasn't intending for them to last for forever, but as a temporary solution i'm not sure how much worse that was than having nothing and people actually falling due to a lack of stairs. Where's the logic? At least something will be done about it now.

They walked down a beaten path which was a short cut but it's at their risk (the City can't be held responsible for everything). If they walked around a longer route, there are municipal stairs.

 

[SkyRider]

I've checked this point in the past with my WSIB consultant, and a homeowner does NOT need to get a clearance certificate from a residential renovator.

This sounds logical.

The renovator should have liability insurance for your protection though.

What if he doesn't? Does the liability fall on the homeowner? If yes, why would any renovator get liability insurance?

 

[GPIDEAL]

You are so right on this. I am familiar with the WSIB process from a professional point of view, however on a personal basis when I hired a company to re-shingle my roof I insisted on the WSIB clearance certificate.

People who hire contractors need to know their rights and be aware of the potential liabilities.

No matter what they are doing and even if you are paying cash, still insist on getting a copy of the clearance certificate. If the contractor cannot supply you with one, they are not covered (or have not paid their insurance). Walk away and hire someone else.

It's good that you asked but you as a homeowner are not required to obtain one (see my earlier reply to James T. Kirk).

 

[GPIDEAL]

This sounds logical.
What if he doesn't? Does the liability fall on the homeowner? If yes, why would any renovator get liability insurance?

If he backs up with his truck, and accidentally plows into your garage and crushes your Ferrari, and doesn't have the required insurance, you're fucked.

Normally, contractors require any sub-contractors to furnish CGL and Auto insurance naming the contractor and owner (and sometimes the consultant) as ADDED insureds, so that they are covered by the sub's insurance IF the sub causes damage to the work site. This way, their own insurance need not respond. Standard operating procedure.

The benefit to the subcontractor or renovator is that he won't get sued and go bankrupt (why buy insurance at all then?). Construction is a risky business. Any contractor would be foolish not to have insurance. BTW, I don't love insurance companies and I'm not a broker, he he.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Putting up the plaque will cost additional $50,000 LOL.


I'm not saying they need to have Sugar Beach umbrellas shading the stairs. But it shouldn't cost too much more to have some unique feature or design to fit the surroundings. The city's already paying for a designer and engineer, surely they could curve the stairs or embed some graphic elements without it costing much more.

This reminds me, there is a section of the Lower Don bike path on the south side of Pottery Road where it splits to the Bayview bike path. A small connecting section maybe 10 meters long, has been closed and under construction since last summer. Like, how long does it fucking take! It looks finished but remains closed.

Also there were sections of the Lower Don that were closed to the public with some fencing and yellow tape and people simply went through or around.

Yes, that plaque would cost $50,000 LOL.

I think those stairs are probably old and therefore, not "stylish". But they're functional and serve the purpose at a reasonable cost. Sure, there are some public venues that should have fancier construction, like a City Hall or Court House, etc. etc.


P.S. I used to live near Tom Riley Park. I'm sure I've walked through it many times but haven't noticed that particular path or don't recall it. I would've laughed if I saw those stairs.

 

[Smallcock]

The government is out of control with the permits scheme, union worker wages, and so on. This staircase should be able to be fixed for a few thousand at most, not anywhere near $50k. It's disgusting how much money is wasted or should I say stolen from tax payers and pocketed.

 

[rhuarc29]

Having insight into government waste, I think most people would be disgusted if they saw what I saw. Our accumulated debt could have been paid off easily if we just cut half the waste. But there's no political will to curtail it. Handing out money buys votes (just ask Wynne). It's also easier for the overseers to be lazy and avoid doing their job. We pay SO MUCH money to public workers and contractors, it's sickening.