If you do fall of the wagon and get really wasted try recording yourself with a video camera. Sit down in front the video camera and have a deep conversation with the camera about the mean of life. When you sober up you can decide if you really want to be that person. There are few things worse then a drunk, rambling idiot. (Everyone's an idiot when they drink too much. It isn't a shot at you.)
Need some tips to quit drinking
- Thread starter richierich
- Start date
There isn't much in the way of evidence that a couple of drinks now and then will hurt you--there have been studies that say yes, studies that say no, studies that say it actually benefits you. In any case it's far less harmful in and of itself than a lot of other things people do...squash500 said:IMHO, there's no such thing as a normal healthy alcohol uptake?
...until you become an alcoholic.
If you are an alcoholic, if you actually go through withdrawl when you do not drink, if you crave drinking, then there is no such thing as a healthy alcohol uptake.
I don't think I'm an alcoholic, I drink, and now and then I drink a lot--but this thread scares me. I think I'm going to take a month off drinking just to check that I don't go through any withdrawl.
Gotta be careful.
I think it is great for the ones who went and stopped drinking. I just find they are a little behind on their treatment techniques and the book they have is absolutely ridicolous. Everything is written in He. When in treatment, it is all about you. Religion should never come into play. It is always good to believe, but what about the ones who don't?xitmnt said:
There is an organization called The Center for Inquiry that hosts a weekly addiction support group. CFI promotes CFI "reason, science, secularism and freedom of inquiry in every human endeavour." http://www.centerforinquiry.net/ontario
Amongst other things, they hold this AA style meeting but without the God mumbo-jumbo.
You might also try focusing on a tangible benefits to not drinking: money perhaps - and keep a running tab in your head, of how much after tax income you are keeping in your pocket. Ten-bucks a day, means almost four-grand in the bank at year end. Or, health - count the caloric savings of roughly 100 calories per shot, and try to imagine your liver slowly reucuperating, with the tangible benefits of days added onto your life.
Amongst other things, they hold this AA style meeting but without the God mumbo-jumbo.
You might also try focusing on a tangible benefits to not drinking: money perhaps - and keep a running tab in your head, of how much after tax income you are keeping in your pocket. Ten-bucks a day, means almost four-grand in the bank at year end. Or, health - count the caloric savings of roughly 100 calories per shot, and try to imagine your liver slowly reucuperating, with the tangible benefits of days added onto your life.
WTF are you on?papasmerf said:
Where did I say anything about murder?
Read his post.
He says he's sleeping too much, and has daytime sleepines, and he thinks it may be because he has quit drinking.
It's highly unlikely that one has anything to with the other, but it sounds like he wants to use sleeping too much as a reason to start drinking again.
Think before you post.
I believe most men understand the feeling. At the same time remember two sayings that when one stops for a second express truth: “No man is an island a piece apart from the Main” and “there is safety in numbers.”richierich said:
Please do give some thought to A.A. I hope you succeed!
Angela, each person is an individual and you are entirely entitled to your own opinion, but A.A. is literally a life saver for many people.
I'm a bit troubled that you run down A.A. rather than saying there are other alternatives and informing us what they are.
I'm a bit troubled that you run down A.A. rather than saying there are other alternatives and informing us what they are.
Thank you for your response. You raise a valid argument. My apologies. Sometimes I read posts everywhere on this site and find people to be so insensetive, resulting in me being bitchy, so to speak. I don't know who to take seriously half the time anymore, so my posts have been viscious in the last week. The maturity level is something to be desired. As a sex trade worker, with an education in social work and psychology, my family has been ripped apart by alcoholism in more ways than one can imagine. I have suffered first hand. AA is nothing more than brainwashing. St. Joshep's health care withdrawal management inpatient detox for drugs and alcohol is a great place to start. Peel Addictions Assessment and Referrals centre in Mississagua @ 5170 Dixie Rd is amazing. 905 629 1007.Aardvark154 said:
I would never make fun of addictions or anything for that matter. I have personally helped homeless people and various people with addicitions all my life, and continue to do so today.
I am a proud sober woman, twelve months in the running. My apologies if i have offeneded anybody on terb.
I am only human.
Angela,
We all get frustrated with this place from time to time. It seems the number of asshats are growing by the day, so a little bitchiness or freakout is normal and healthy. Shit, I did it myself a week ago or so. It's all good, no need to worry.
So, how about some bitchy sex?
We all get frustrated with this place from time to time. It seems the number of asshats are growing by the day, so a little bitchiness or freakout is normal and healthy. Shit, I did it myself a week ago or so. It's all good, no need to worry.
So, how about some bitchy sex?
I would say that this issue cuts close to the bone for Angela and that she didn't find the help she needed at AA.
Thanks for sharing your personal story Angela and more importantly, for sharing your alternatives to AA, which I can also attest to from experiences of friends and loved ones, does not work for everyone.
Me? I'm just happy in my blissful alcoholic state! LOL!
(Just kidding - as I said earlier, I'm blessed that I'm not of the addictive persuasion. Well, not of the drug- or alcohol variety - I am on TERB!)
Thanks for sharing your personal story Angela and more importantly, for sharing your alternatives to AA, which I can also attest to from experiences of friends and loved ones, does not work for everyone.
Me? I'm just happy in my blissful alcoholic state! LOL!
(Just kidding - as I said earlier, I'm blessed that I'm not of the addictive persuasion. Well, not of the drug- or alcohol variety - I am on TERB!)
Anytime. You are hot.a 1 player said:Angela,
We all get frustrated with this place from time to time. It seems the number of asshats are growing by the day, so a little bitchiness or freakout is normal and healthy. Shit, I did it myself a week ago or so. It's all good, no need to worry.
So, how about some bitchy sex?
You are so sweet! I found the way through spiritual counselling and just taking various courses. Everyone has issues. I am comfortable with myself!Captain Fantastic said:I would say that this issue cuts close to the bone for Angela and that she didn't find the help she needed at AA.
Thanks for sharing your personal story Angela and more importantly, for sharing your alternatives to AA, which I can also attest to from experiences of friends and loved ones, does not work for everyone.
Me? I'm just happy in my blissful alcoholic state! LOL!
(Just kidding - as I said earlier, I'm blessed that I'm not of the addictive persuasion. Well, not of the drug- or alcohol variety, I am on TERB!)
I used to have a major problem with drinking many years ago. I got into the booze as soon as I got home from work and drank till passing out. When the weekend came, I was drunk all weekend. Was like that for about 6 years. Cost me my marrage, and almost my family. I finally realized I needed to straighten myself out and quit. That was in 1985 and I didn't have a drink again for about 3 years and found I didn't like it anymore.
Not an easy thing to do but I survived it. Get rid of all the booze in your house and don't go to bars with friends. Try not to associate with people who drink. That's how I did it. Good luck.
Not an easy thing to do but I survived it. Get rid of all the booze in your house and don't go to bars with friends. Try not to associate with people who drink. That's how I did it. Good luck.
First off I like to say good on you that you recognize that you have a problem and want to do something about it. That is a major step and IMO in fact the most important step and often times the most difficult one… very few want to admit they have a problem… least it might suggest they are weak and also the stigma attached… etc.
All on here who know me well enough know that I am an addict/alkie who has been in and out of recovery for many years. Well most I know prefer to keep it under their hat (for a whole variety of reasons) I don’t keep it a secret re myself… however always respect others needs/wants to do so. The main point though being that anything I offer is from direct experience.
Twice in my life so far I have had more then 4 almost 5 years of sobriety. In the past year I may have drank or consumed other mind altering substances 6 or 8 times total. And only for a couple days each time. Why did I relapse after multi years of sobriety I am sure is a question one might ask… but at this point I don’t think that’s as important as how did I stay that way and what the difference was in my life. I offer this…. During those times that I was clean ‘n sober my quality of life (and all around me… family etc) was tons better then when I was not. I am very certain that if not for those years I was clean ‘n sober … due to health effects and lifestyle etc… I most certainly would be dead right now. Addiction is a very deadly disease and should not be taken lightly. It’s almost impossible if not in fact impossible IMO to tackle it by yourself.
Having said … if you asked me what helped me the most over the years? I would have to say 12 step programs. While most of suggestions in this thread may be helpful (stay away from drinkers, bars, get more exercise etc)… there is IMO much more to it then simply that or those few things. Addiction (to alcohol or drugs) is a disease that affects the body, mind and spirit. Effective treatment requires addressing all three. 12 step programs it has been my personal experience and also my observation of others who in fact actually do the steps will manifest changes required.
Having said that… it is also my opinion that AA/NA is not the end all be all to effective treatment of addiction. Also there is a big difference between the 12 step program and 12 step fellowship. They are entirely separate things altogether. Also yes in the 12 step program there is a fair amount of mention of God… hence some may think it is a religious program. It is not. We like to say it’s a “spiritual not religious program”. And there is a huge difference IMO.
In AA there is a book called The Big Book. Some who are members of the AA fellowship like to harp on this book a lot and some others may call them bible thumpers… however I hasten to differ. The Big Book is not the bible for one thing.
And like I said there is a big difference between the fellowship and the program itself IMO.
Below I have posted a couple links I hope you may find useful. I hope they help. And in the mean time if you are in Toronto and ever want to get together for a talk over a coffee or tea… PM me any time… I’ll be more then happy to get together with you anytime.
http://www.camh.net/ http://www.hazelden.org/ http://www.soberrecovery.com/
All on here who know me well enough know that I am an addict/alkie who has been in and out of recovery for many years. Well most I know prefer to keep it under their hat (for a whole variety of reasons) I don’t keep it a secret re myself… however always respect others needs/wants to do so. The main point though being that anything I offer is from direct experience.
Twice in my life so far I have had more then 4 almost 5 years of sobriety. In the past year I may have drank or consumed other mind altering substances 6 or 8 times total. And only for a couple days each time. Why did I relapse after multi years of sobriety I am sure is a question one might ask… but at this point I don’t think that’s as important as how did I stay that way and what the difference was in my life. I offer this…. During those times that I was clean ‘n sober my quality of life (and all around me… family etc) was tons better then when I was not. I am very certain that if not for those years I was clean ‘n sober … due to health effects and lifestyle etc… I most certainly would be dead right now. Addiction is a very deadly disease and should not be taken lightly. It’s almost impossible if not in fact impossible IMO to tackle it by yourself.
Having said … if you asked me what helped me the most over the years? I would have to say 12 step programs. While most of suggestions in this thread may be helpful (stay away from drinkers, bars, get more exercise etc)… there is IMO much more to it then simply that or those few things. Addiction (to alcohol or drugs) is a disease that affects the body, mind and spirit. Effective treatment requires addressing all three. 12 step programs it has been my personal experience and also my observation of others who in fact actually do the steps will manifest changes required.
Having said that… it is also my opinion that AA/NA is not the end all be all to effective treatment of addiction. Also there is a big difference between the 12 step program and 12 step fellowship. They are entirely separate things altogether. Also yes in the 12 step program there is a fair amount of mention of God… hence some may think it is a religious program. It is not. We like to say it’s a “spiritual not religious program”. And there is a huge difference IMO.
In AA there is a book called The Big Book. Some who are members of the AA fellowship like to harp on this book a lot and some others may call them bible thumpers… however I hasten to differ. The Big Book is not the bible for one thing.
And like I said there is a big difference between the fellowship and the program itself IMO.
Below I have posted a couple links I hope you may find useful. I hope they help. And in the mean time if you are in Toronto and ever want to get together for a talk over a coffee or tea… PM me any time… I’ll be more then happy to get together with you anytime.
http://www.camh.net/ http://www.hazelden.org/ http://www.soberrecovery.com/
Congratulations on several years on 4 or 5 years of relative sobriety Nitehwk.
Glad that you found the 12 steps helpful. Most people don’t.
I frankly suspect that it is the religious or “spiritual” component of AA and other 12 step programs that ultimately accounts for its dismal success rate. AA is careful not to publicly acknowledge this, but they privately admit that 50% of attendees quit within the first 3 months, and only 5% hang in to permanently quit drinking for good.
Sorry, but 5 percent blows. If I were to market a sugar pill for alcoholics, or some phony herbal concoction, I would be guaranteed of at least a 10 to 20 percent success rate based on the well known scientific principle of the placebo effect.
Most people don’t know what the “12 steps” of a 12 step program really are. http://www.aacanada.com/12s.html
Well, it’s short and sweet and God is mentioned in six of them.
Step 2. Believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity. Step 3. Turn our will and our lives over to God. 5. Admit to God our failings. 6. Be ready to have God remove these defects of character. 7. Humbly ask God to remove our shortcomings. 12. Having had our spiritual awakening, carry the message to others.
Is it any wonder why more than half the planet gives up on it within weeks? Remember, not everyone who “doubts” about the God question, actually self-identifies as a skeptic, or an agnostic or an atheist. Many still tick off RC, or United Church, or whatever as far as religious affiliation goes on the forms, but just gradually stop going to church, live perfectly moral lives, and forget all about it. If they happen find themselves in an AA meeting, they pretty quickly stop going.
Too bad, because they give up on the networking, the hearing of the stories of people whose lives are, or once were, worse off than their own because of alcohol, and the sponsor to talk to when they feel like breaking down and having a drink, which is unfortunate, because these elements of treatment might actually help someone’s recovery.
I suspect that this is what Nitehwk means by the “fellowship” aspect. But for many, its all the “Praise God,” crap, and the “I’m helpless and only God can save me” drivel, is what gives them the creeping willies and what drives them out before they get to the useful stuff.
Fortunately, there are other alternatives to religious or “spiritual” programs.
Penn and Teller had a TV show called “Bullshit” awhile back. The show did expose features on stuff like spiritualism, (the talking to ghosts stuff) Feng Shui, and even mundane stuff like store-bought bottled water, and called it like they saw it – as bullshit. They happened to do a show on 12 step Programs, and being uncompromising atheists, they called bullshit on AA.
The whole show is available on youtube, with link to part one here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPNgHrIkgo&feature=related
Despite the fact that people in AA can supposedly can turn their lives over to anything, to “God as they understand him” or to a non-God concept, “even a tree or a rock.” it still presupposes that an individual has no personal control over their lives. Penn makes light of this nonsense by substituting the word rock for God in reading the 12 steps, to emphasize how fallacious this idea is.
P and T also have a problem with AA from a constitutional perspective, because US courts often sentence people to attend AA meetings as a condition of probation, and since AA is God based organization, then people can be sentenced to attend religious meetings.
AA loves to say that alcoholism is a disease. Why then do we see addiction as the only medical condition that the ONLY solution is a spiritual solution?
As I said, there are other alternatives. Along with the ones Nitehwk linked to, look into SOS, Managed Maintenance, Assisted Recovery, among others, and the medically supervised use of naltrexone, and GHB, (yes, that GHB, at least in treatment programs in Europe) and of course, the old fashioned expedient of individuals taking personal control of their lives, which is proven to be as every bit as effective as AA.
By the way, I had no problem with your posts Angela. Good job. Don’t ever back down from the Goddies. We’re supposed to pretend to respect their beliefs. They can bloody well pretend to respect ours.
Glad that you found the 12 steps helpful. Most people don’t.
I frankly suspect that it is the religious or “spiritual” component of AA and other 12 step programs that ultimately accounts for its dismal success rate. AA is careful not to publicly acknowledge this, but they privately admit that 50% of attendees quit within the first 3 months, and only 5% hang in to permanently quit drinking for good.
Sorry, but 5 percent blows. If I were to market a sugar pill for alcoholics, or some phony herbal concoction, I would be guaranteed of at least a 10 to 20 percent success rate based on the well known scientific principle of the placebo effect.
Most people don’t know what the “12 steps” of a 12 step program really are. http://www.aacanada.com/12s.html
Well, it’s short and sweet and God is mentioned in six of them.
Step 2. Believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity. Step 3. Turn our will and our lives over to God. 5. Admit to God our failings. 6. Be ready to have God remove these defects of character. 7. Humbly ask God to remove our shortcomings. 12. Having had our spiritual awakening, carry the message to others.
Is it any wonder why more than half the planet gives up on it within weeks? Remember, not everyone who “doubts” about the God question, actually self-identifies as a skeptic, or an agnostic or an atheist. Many still tick off RC, or United Church, or whatever as far as religious affiliation goes on the forms, but just gradually stop going to church, live perfectly moral lives, and forget all about it. If they happen find themselves in an AA meeting, they pretty quickly stop going.
Too bad, because they give up on the networking, the hearing of the stories of people whose lives are, or once were, worse off than their own because of alcohol, and the sponsor to talk to when they feel like breaking down and having a drink, which is unfortunate, because these elements of treatment might actually help someone’s recovery.
I suspect that this is what Nitehwk means by the “fellowship” aspect. But for many, its all the “Praise God,” crap, and the “I’m helpless and only God can save me” drivel, is what gives them the creeping willies and what drives them out before they get to the useful stuff.
Fortunately, there are other alternatives to religious or “spiritual” programs.
Penn and Teller had a TV show called “Bullshit” awhile back. The show did expose features on stuff like spiritualism, (the talking to ghosts stuff) Feng Shui, and even mundane stuff like store-bought bottled water, and called it like they saw it – as bullshit. They happened to do a show on 12 step Programs, and being uncompromising atheists, they called bullshit on AA.
The whole show is available on youtube, with link to part one here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPNgHrIkgo&feature=related
Despite the fact that people in AA can supposedly can turn their lives over to anything, to “God as they understand him” or to a non-God concept, “even a tree or a rock.” it still presupposes that an individual has no personal control over their lives. Penn makes light of this nonsense by substituting the word rock for God in reading the 12 steps, to emphasize how fallacious this idea is.
P and T also have a problem with AA from a constitutional perspective, because US courts often sentence people to attend AA meetings as a condition of probation, and since AA is God based organization, then people can be sentenced to attend religious meetings.
AA loves to say that alcoholism is a disease. Why then do we see addiction as the only medical condition that the ONLY solution is a spiritual solution?
As I said, there are other alternatives. Along with the ones Nitehwk linked to, look into SOS, Managed Maintenance, Assisted Recovery, among others, and the medically supervised use of naltrexone, and GHB, (yes, that GHB, at least in treatment programs in Europe) and of course, the old fashioned expedient of individuals taking personal control of their lives, which is proven to be as every bit as effective as AA.
By the way, I had no problem with your posts Angela. Good job. Don’t ever back down from the Goddies. We’re supposed to pretend to respect their beliefs. They can bloody well pretend to respect ours.
