Finally, someone who had a worse day than I did!!!
I guess that you never entertained the idea that you might just enjoy being a Dad to Mao Jr.?
I guess that you never entertained the idea that you might just enjoy being a Dad to Mao Jr.?
Need help: Knocked a girl up, need to know my rights
- Thread starter Mao Tse Tongue
- Start date
The choice is hers, but you can encourage her to make the right choice for the right reasons.
You might be losing your job, and it is extremely stressful, so you don't care. The stress of the job plus this situation is hurting you. Your doctor is checking you out for liver disease. He is telling you to cut back on your work hours, loose weight, stay healthy, stop drinking, and reduce stress until he can get you properly checked out. Your doctor has read you the riot act.
You think this might be a good opportunity to go back to school for a few years and take a B.A./M.B.A./PhD in Music (or any other program). Have a sensible plan for it. Going to school will let you spend extra time with your kid. Circulate your thoughts to a few of your friends, so they make sense and seem real. Stop drinking at parties. Make the changes visible and real.
It is her kid too. Make her take the risk that you won't be around in the future. This is valid. Any of us can fall ill, or get sick, or go back to school, at any time. She should be planning for the eventuality that her sugar daddy won't be there. If she wants the kid, it should be because she wants her kid, and no other reason.
Oh, and get a good lawyer. ASAP!
You might be losing your job, and it is extremely stressful, so you don't care. The stress of the job plus this situation is hurting you. Your doctor is checking you out for liver disease. He is telling you to cut back on your work hours, loose weight, stay healthy, stop drinking, and reduce stress until he can get you properly checked out. Your doctor has read you the riot act.
You think this might be a good opportunity to go back to school for a few years and take a B.A./M.B.A./PhD in Music (or any other program). Have a sensible plan for it. Going to school will let you spend extra time with your kid. Circulate your thoughts to a few of your friends, so they make sense and seem real. Stop drinking at parties. Make the changes visible and real.
It is her kid too. Make her take the risk that you won't be around in the future. This is valid. Any of us can fall ill, or get sick, or go back to school, at any time. She should be planning for the eventuality that her sugar daddy won't be there. If she wants the kid, it should be because she wants her kid, and no other reason.
Oh, and get a good lawyer. ASAP!
Quite honestly MTT, you sound like a borderline evil, totally selfish POS... either that or a scared little boy masquerading like a man.
Sorry, but you did the deed - to say it isn't fair that "five minutes of fun isn't worth 18 years of obligation" is the voice of a coward - or a child. Man up to your obligations - you stick your uncovered dick in a girl's pussy and this can happen. As men, we all know that. You're certainly not a teenager any more.
To knowingly want to make this woman twist in the wind to try and shame her into having an abortion because YOU want it so makes you an evil, manipulative POS. To declare "war" on her makes you a sick fuck.
I hope to God the child isn't yours because your moral compass is so fucked up that the kid is doomed to failure. Not to mention the fact that your hatred of this woman is so great that it will be palpable to all, including your potential child.
Shame on you.
And yes, I've been there before. However your vile thoughts never even crossed my mind. "Oh shit, I might have fucked up.", "Is it really mine?" and "What the fuck am I going to do?" definitely entered the equation. But until the girl had made her choice or later (luckily it never got that far for me), until I knew (meaning the inevitable potential paternity test), I shut the fuck up and was supportive to her and my possible child's plight. I was always honest with her with regard to my feelings (I was not ready to be a father, but I would fulfill any obligations if the baby was mine - if it got to that.)
Your childish "my dick made me do it" excuse is tired and played out. We all have dicks. But with dicks (big or small) comes HUGE responsibility. If one's dick gets you into trouble, a real man would accept that as the price for pleasure and deal with the consequences like an adult. To try and slough it off on "dicks will be dicks" shows incredible immaturity and absolutely no sense of duty or obligation. It is a cop out of the worst kind.
Listen, I know that you're scared and totally freaked out. But playing games and trying to hurt someone who did nothing wrong (certainly no more wrong than you) is the stuff of an immature brat or a psychopath. I implore you to just suck it up and wait and see what happens. No commitments or obligations, just STFU and wait & see. Be honest with the woman about your feelings, but do not, under any circumstances, go ahead with your attempt to mentally or emotionally fuck with the possible mother of your child.
Just keep in mind that you're not the only one going through something in this situation.
Sorry, but you did the deed - to say it isn't fair that "five minutes of fun isn't worth 18 years of obligation" is the voice of a coward - or a child. Man up to your obligations - you stick your uncovered dick in a girl's pussy and this can happen. As men, we all know that. You're certainly not a teenager any more.
To knowingly want to make this woman twist in the wind to try and shame her into having an abortion because YOU want it so makes you an evil, manipulative POS. To declare "war" on her makes you a sick fuck.
I hope to God the child isn't yours because your moral compass is so fucked up that the kid is doomed to failure. Not to mention the fact that your hatred of this woman is so great that it will be palpable to all, including your potential child.
Shame on you.
And yes, I've been there before. However your vile thoughts never even crossed my mind. "Oh shit, I might have fucked up.", "Is it really mine?" and "What the fuck am I going to do?" definitely entered the equation. But until the girl had made her choice or later (luckily it never got that far for me), until I knew (meaning the inevitable potential paternity test), I shut the fuck up and was supportive to her and my possible child's plight. I was always honest with her with regard to my feelings (I was not ready to be a father, but I would fulfill any obligations if the baby was mine - if it got to that.)
Your childish "my dick made me do it" excuse is tired and played out. We all have dicks. But with dicks (big or small) comes HUGE responsibility. If one's dick gets you into trouble, a real man would accept that as the price for pleasure and deal with the consequences like an adult. To try and slough it off on "dicks will be dicks" shows incredible immaturity and absolutely no sense of duty or obligation. It is a cop out of the worst kind.
Listen, I know that you're scared and totally freaked out. But playing games and trying to hurt someone who did nothing wrong (certainly no more wrong than you) is the stuff of an immature brat or a psychopath. I implore you to just suck it up and wait and see what happens. No commitments or obligations, just STFU and wait & see. Be honest with the woman about your feelings, but do not, under any circumstances, go ahead with your attempt to mentally or emotionally fuck with the possible mother of your child.
Just keep in mind that you're not the only one going through something in this situation.
Might want to start strategicaly relocating assets to a less confiscatory environment, if you get the drift.
.
.
Cassini said:
Seems to me that getting a lawyer is a pointless waste of money when it comes to child support.
I would have some respect for the law if there was ANY way out at all for a man in MTTs situation.
As far as bringing the child to term total executive privilege should be hers. Furthermore the father should in all cases supply any & all necessary support to ensure a healthy pregnancy. It is only right s t this stage the situation is the result of both people's joint action.
However, once the kid is out of her & she decides that the child will not be adopted against the fathers wishes she is exercising total executive privilege so she should assume total responsibility. The fact that she makes the decision to keep custody in spite of the fact that she lacks the resources to do so is %100 Her bad decision. The father should be able to declare that he wishes the child adopted & renounce his 1/2 of the responsibility.
If the courts were Truly interested in the "best interests of the child" as they endlessly profess they should take the kids away from selfish women such as this & place them with families that have the emotional & financial resources to hopefully raise them NOT to be like their mother.
In short unwed parents should not have the right to hold the other to any sort of agreement. That is what marriage was for. I guess since we got rid of that "terrible" notion of "legitimacy" this is what our society's come to.
There should be some sort of contract that a woman can have a man sign that states that he will support any child that is a product of their relationship. If he refuses to agree in writing, she can refuse to have sex. At least that would make everyone bound by actual educated choices..... It would also reduce the strain on courts, eliminate situations like MTTs & while it won't eliminate unexpected children it will possibly reduce the conception of unwanted children even more.
Forcing a person to pay for a situation's consequences past the point where his executive power can steer them & at the whim of another is wrong. It is slavery by another name.
If there is ANY way for a man to escape the baby trap please someone help this man.
Captain Fantastic said:
You sir are an idiot.... did you take woman's studies at Berkley perhaps?
Te same thing could be said about her....
What the fuck was she doing opening up her legs bareback with a guy that will likely not want to support their shared mistake?
The mistake was made... both parties made stupid decision.... She decided to keep & bring to term a baby the father does not want to support.... whether for moral or medical reasons she decided to keep it. He should have to make her as secure & healthy & comfortable as possible until the baby is born as up until that it is still a 50/50 error.
Her Right to have the baby %100 but from the birth & afterwords it should also be her RESPONSIBILITY %100.
Her deciding to RAISE a child that she had zero expectation of the father wanting to help support is fucking insane.... SHE SHOULD WOMAN UP & give the kid to a family with some goddamn sense.
You're actually asking a man to throw a big portion of his resources away on kid he doesn't want because he made ONE bad decision to her THREE.
You "the woman is right even when they're wrong" guys are a fucking joke
If my post makes me an idiot, yours make you a barely-functional retard.themexi said:
Well, they actually make you a mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging Neanderthal. Or just another in a long line of TERB misogynist asshats.
The fallacy or mistake the majority of men make is falling back on the excuse that our dicks do our thinking for us. That somehow "the heat of passion" means we don't have to take responsibility for OUR actions. And that's what it comes down to - OUR actions. We know the law. We know how society looks at this. A woman has the right to her body. Period. So we have to exercise OUR rights, which are 1. to say "No." or 2. to use protection. End of story.
If you fail to do either and then complain after the fact, you as a man are an idiot and a failure.
In your case, I'd say that you're both.
PS - even with your edits, your argument is still a "fucking joke."
That high price is the very reason condoms were invented....be thankful it is 'just' a child you may have caught,,,,there are a lot more dangerous and life altering after effects from having 'a few moments of frail human pleasure'.Mao Tse Tongue said:
From a womans point of view deciding to abort a life is a horrible and frightening decision to have to make regardless of how the 'accident' happened. Perhaps if the shoe were on the other foot? If you had gotten a nasty case of dick rot from that little blunder would you be so quick to have it amputated? From a womans point of view it can be very similar, putting an end to a life is a heart wrenching choice and not easily made much less lived with. You may be able to go on with your life after the deed is done but she will spend the remainder of her life wandering if she did the right thing. Sounds to me like you BOTH fucked up,,,,,SHE has the tough choice to make
Mao Tse Tongue said:
Hm, so far I was mildly sympathetic to your predicament,,,,now I just think it is most likely a good thing you have money going for you at least. I truly hope you are not the father, for the childs sake.
STASH said:
I guess that makes us even then, men learn to manipulate women by using their looks, power, money or our hearts to get sex,,,,so women learn to manipulate men by usng sex to get their power. money or hearts.....
Mao Tse Tongue said:
Actually they end up with a lifetime comittment, being a parent does not end as soon as the child leaves home or is old enough to support him/herself. In my opinion and in my experience actually raising the child is so very much harder than just throwing some money in for support. If she had deliberately gotten pregnant then yes I can understand your anger,,,,but if she ended up pregnant because of a few moments of carelessness and is now torn with not knowing what to do, well that is by no means the same situation and she does not deserve to be shamed and humiliated simply because she is trying to find the best solution to the problem.
Also,,,,,,,,all this talk about men thinking with their dicks and chasing pussy,,,,,have you all forgotten that women have libido's also? We have sex drive, we get horny, in fact some of us get so damned horny we can make some really stupid mistakes,,,,,does blaming our pussy mean we are not responsible for our actions? Damn, wish I had known about this years ago.
Dude,,,,,,think for a minute,,,,,yes we have the ultimate choice but we also have the ultimate responsibility after making that choice. Men get to walk away regardless of the decision made, yes you may have to throw some money her way to help raise the child but that's the extent of your comittment.......regardless of her choice she has to live with it for the rest of her life.......how fair is that for a 2 minute joy ride? IT suck for both of you, stop trying to make it sound like you are the victim of some elaborate plot to rob you of your almighty dollar.....It is not an easy decision to terminate a life and it is not an easy decision to take on the responsibility of raising that life either......Mao Tse Tongue said:
Everyone of your posts makes you seem that much fucking hotter. Oh god...genintoronto said:
I have GOT to make an appointment with you next week.
This is another time I should just shut the fuck up, but since I have never been good at doing that...
I have a grown daughter I have never met. Ever, not even the day she was born. I have never seen a picture of her, I have no idea how she is doing in life, absolutely no knowledge of her except she exists.
I have tried to be in contact with her and her mother, and have spent thousands of dollars on legal fees, but since she is not in this country, it seems my efforts have been futile. I still pay child support for her too, as I have since the day she was born. I have tried to get out of this, but the government won't let me, and the 'family responsibility office' keeps deducting from my cheques to support my child who I have never met, and is not even in the country where I have access to her.
My situation is exactly like the OP's, (I think), only I pray his has a happier ending than mine.
The woman was a short relationship, and I had no idea that she had another man on the side. The other man as far as I know, had never held a real job, and was a flake in the true sense of the word. My girlfriend assured me that she was on the pill, hell we even went for STD tests before giving up the condoms. So imagine my surprise when she comes to me and says that she is pregnant, and was never on the pill to begin with. That she never wants to see me again, that I will have to submit to a blood test, and to quote her... "thanks for the child support". "If you try to get in contact with me, I'll throw myself down a flight of stairs and have you charged for abuse and I will say that you raped me". As you can imagine, I was devastated.
About a month or two after the baby was born, she moved out of the country with her family (and my child), to a country where the legal system is nowhere near as robust as it is here in Canada, and the cost of living is substantially lower. Despite many attempts to gain access to the child, all of my attempts have failed. I am certainly not going to go to a radical Muslim country and try to stir shit up there either, as I have a strong feeling I would just 'go missing'. I do know she has many family members there that are government officials, and hold predominant positions in business.
The hardest part for me is not paying the support, but knowing I have a child who I will never meet, and who will never get to meet their 'dad'.
To all you folks who think that it is a 'man's responsibility' to suck it up, not be a deadbeat father, and that a man should have no say, you have no god damn idea what you are talking about. I'm not saying that I should have the right to force her to abort, not at all. But to be given a life sentence (I'm talking emotionally here, support will soon end) by some bitch who has used you in the truest sense of the word is just evil, not to mention unjust.
It takes two people to make a child, therefore there should be some sort of legal preceding to figure out where the onus lies with regards to the pregnancy. If it was an accident, that is one thing. If it was planned to milk the man, or the social system, that is entirely something else altogether and the 'man' should not be to blame in a circumstance like this.
Walk a mile in my shoes, then spew your shit.
I have a grown daughter I have never met. Ever, not even the day she was born. I have never seen a picture of her, I have no idea how she is doing in life, absolutely no knowledge of her except she exists.
I have tried to be in contact with her and her mother, and have spent thousands of dollars on legal fees, but since she is not in this country, it seems my efforts have been futile. I still pay child support for her too, as I have since the day she was born. I have tried to get out of this, but the government won't let me, and the 'family responsibility office' keeps deducting from my cheques to support my child who I have never met, and is not even in the country where I have access to her.
My situation is exactly like the OP's, (I think), only I pray his has a happier ending than mine.
The woman was a short relationship, and I had no idea that she had another man on the side. The other man as far as I know, had never held a real job, and was a flake in the true sense of the word. My girlfriend assured me that she was on the pill, hell we even went for STD tests before giving up the condoms. So imagine my surprise when she comes to me and says that she is pregnant, and was never on the pill to begin with. That she never wants to see me again, that I will have to submit to a blood test, and to quote her... "thanks for the child support". "If you try to get in contact with me, I'll throw myself down a flight of stairs and have you charged for abuse and I will say that you raped me". As you can imagine, I was devastated.
About a month or two after the baby was born, she moved out of the country with her family (and my child), to a country where the legal system is nowhere near as robust as it is here in Canada, and the cost of living is substantially lower. Despite many attempts to gain access to the child, all of my attempts have failed. I am certainly not going to go to a radical Muslim country and try to stir shit up there either, as I have a strong feeling I would just 'go missing'. I do know she has many family members there that are government officials, and hold predominant positions in business.
The hardest part for me is not paying the support, but knowing I have a child who I will never meet, and who will never get to meet their 'dad'.
To all you folks who think that it is a 'man's responsibility' to suck it up, not be a deadbeat father, and that a man should have no say, you have no god damn idea what you are talking about. I'm not saying that I should have the right to force her to abort, not at all. But to be given a life sentence (I'm talking emotionally here, support will soon end) by some bitch who has used you in the truest sense of the word is just evil, not to mention unjust.
It takes two people to make a child, therefore there should be some sort of legal preceding to figure out where the onus lies with regards to the pregnancy. If it was an accident, that is one thing. If it was planned to milk the man, or the social system, that is entirely something else altogether and the 'man' should not be to blame in a circumstance like this.
Walk a mile in my shoes, then spew your shit.
Whatever you say Pvt Funtastic ; )Captain Fantastic said:If my post makes me an idiot, yours make you a barely-functional retard.
OK then please explain how the above nonsensical insult applies to an argument that holds both sexes to the same level of reponsibility based on the amount of executive decision making power.Captain Fantastic said:
Captain Fantastic said:
My dick doesn't do the thinking for me.... I have no bastards kicking around because I am very careful with my choice of partners, use of birth control & I make it very clear where they stand in case something should happen
pregnancy wise.
Are you actually so stupid as to suggest that somehow "the heat of passion" means women don't have the same requirement to take responsibility for their actions as much as we must take ours?
The laws are unfair to men & many who practice those scary black magic practices as "reason" "fairness' & "common sense" believe this to be hhe case. Just because something is legal does not make it right. To enforce or obey an unjust law is to foster injustice.Captain Fantastic said:
Again, wrong is wrong..... I'll bet you're just the right type of self righteous asshole that would be making an equally retarded argument in favour of female circumcision in africa. You'd be just as wrong being a follower there.Captain Fantastic said:
My god, Pvt....... WE AGREE ON SOMETHING & IT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE!!!Captain Fantastic said:
Btw A man should have a right to HIS body as well as far as what the fruits of its labours go towards & NOT be put int indentured servitude to support a child because the mother is too selfish to let it go to a WHOLE & PROPER family. Period.
We should also have the right to legally separate ourselves from any offspring that are a result of a non committed sexual action.Captain Fantastic said:
Captain Fantastic said:
Are you ending the story & thus the debate by decree here Pvt? If so by what authority?
Actually I made a very reasoned argument based on total equality of the sexes & holding both accountable for the decisions they make at every stage along the line. Allow me to explain in detail in hopes that some part of your brain can comprehend them.
SCENARIO: 2 people hook up just for sex one night.
UNWISE Decision #1
Sex bareback, in fact ANY sex outside a committed relationship has a very real risk of a child being produced that is not wanted by either or both parties. In this case an unwanted conception is te result of the poor desicions of BOTH parties.
If both parties decide that they do not want the pregnancy & both are comfortble with abortion then the situation is resolved & with a minimum but not insignificant inconvenience & trauma to BOTH parties. Hopefully they learned something. The man should make sure that the bills for the procedure are paid for.
********At ^this^ point the role of the father to make decisions on an even level is basically over.... Below is where the executive rights & therefore the responsibilities shif more towards the mother. ************
If the mother wants to abort & the father is against abortion for whatever reason.... Tough & rightly so. The woman should not be forced to spend 9 months of severe wear & tear on her body just becuse the father is against termintion. If he wants a kid so bad or if he is pro-life he should be fucking around with someone with similar needs or values.
If the father wants to abort & the mother is against abortion for whatever reason.... Tough & rightly so. The woman should not be forced to undergo a medical procedure that is aginst her emotional, physical or moral needs becuse the father is for termintion.
However, the woman should be making her decisions taking into consideration the fact that the father does not want the child & had no intention of supporting it. If she decides to keep the child she should be doing it with the understanding that it is her decision & her responsibility to decide what's best for the child.
Since he played an equal part in the pregnancy he should support her in any way necessary to ensure the mother & child are healthy. They both made a stupid mistake. The nature of biology & the unfairness of forcing the mother to abort balance out the man's obligtion to ensure all are healthy for the duration of the pregnancy.
From ^^THIS^^ point on the father has Zero decision making power.
If the mother decices to put the child up for adoption & the father agrees, the situation cn be considered resolved with significant amount of inconvenience to both parties.
If the mother decices to Keep & Raise the child & the father has made it clear from the start he wants no part of supporting the child, then the mother should understand that since she is now making all of the decisions in the
situation that she bears all of the reponsibility. She should understand that she has the power to alleviate the burden of parenthood trough adoption. If she cannot support the child & she brought it to term with the knowledge that she won't be able to count on the father for support then in the best intrests of te child she Should give the child up to those that can support it.
Deciding to keep a child you cannot support & forcing the father to pay for a child he gave no indication of a desire to support is WRONG.
It is as wrong as a man forcing a woman to bear or abort her child.
The only time a mother should feel secure that the father ill stick around & assume responsibility as a parent is when the child was conceived in a marriage or oter committed relationship OR if she made sure he made some other legally binding voluntary agreement to do so. If se is not sure of a man's intentions she should not put herself in that kind of position unless she is willing to support it on her own.
Is the woman not equally at fault in all of this? You slogn types always say "2 to tango" right?Captain Fantastic said:
So you're either saying that as women the women are failures as well or you don't truly believe in equality of the sexes at all.
I believe that such determinations should be made by better qualified personnel in a higher paygrade there Pvt.Captain Fantastic said:
Spelling is not my strong point........independent, reasoned thought isn't yours......Captain Fantastic said:
If you have any INTELLIGENT argument to make I'll continue the debate.... If you just want to rant passages from your erlkey womans studies text I'll be only too happy to give you another Assfucking by debate.
Having read the 139 posts so far, I have this to say:
1. If you wore a condon and it broke, I would have more sympathy for your position. That said, you have clearly stated your position that you in no way want the woman to have your child.
2. Keebler Elf and Captain Fantastic were hard on you in 123 and 132 MTT, but the way you worded your views did make you appear uncaring and a tad on the...how shall we say... 'nasty' side. Now, you have said if the child is yours you will pay support and not shirk your responsibilities. So telling him to man up is overkill as he said he will pay support if it is his, he however isn't happy to put it mildly about the possibility and wants the fetus aborted to end the matter once and for all.
3. It is clear MTT does not want to be a father. From his posts in this thread it appears he would not make a very good father to a child, as many have expressed, most recently LadyTY2UALL. The Mexi had a good idea with adoption being a good option in this case. MTT says he doesn't ever want kids period. We have no idea what the woman wants. Maybe she is interested in the support payments because she wanted to have a child and couldn't afford to alone as Kyra I think mentioned. So she would abort if it was RollingStoneguy's kid, but not if it was MTT's as he has deeper pockets.
4. Abortion is not an easy decision for many woman. I personally, while approving of a woman's right to choose, do not approve of abortion. An ex g/f of mine had an abortion (before we met - not my child) and it bothered her for years psychologically afterward. Some don't care and brush it off as no big deal, but others do care and it is a traumatic choice to make for them. So I would not brush off the proceedure you want her to have as minor.
5. If the woman is manipulating you, assess your options. If the test proves you are the father and you can't stand the woman as you say, and don't want anything to do with a child ever, then while a court can and will impose support on you they can't force you to see her or the child if you refuse to. Your lawyer can send your monthly child support cheque to her. I just went on a date with a hot 19 year old college girl who said she met her biological father once in her life when she was 15 years old on her own initiative of tracking him down and never saw him since then. He paid support through his lawyer but wanted zero contact and got it.
6. I was talking last year in another thread about one day, since I wanted biological offspring but didn't think I'd ever marry, paying a surrogate to have my child for me. In your situation you may have got it for free (by free I mean no big fee to her for the inconveinence of carrying a baby to term). Now I know you DON'T want a kid, but I'm just saying there is a bright side to everything, depending on one's perspective.
7. If, as has been suggested by others, you are civil to this woman you have a choice of whether you see the child and have a meaningful role in its life. If you treat her as the enemy, any meaningful role for you will be minimal. If you don't care and want no part of the child or her, then being civil might at least get you her telling the child as it grows up that you weren't ready for parenting by weren't a bad guy per se as you paid child support. If you pay after a "war" where she hates you, she will probably tell the kid "your biological father was an asshat" even if you pay. Just something to think about.
So yeah, if it was me I'd probably be happy she wanted to have the kid if it was biologically mine. If I didn't like her at all and it was a drunk roll in the hay that led to this situation I'd suggest either paying child support and seeing the kid at certain times on my own, or offering her a lump sum to give me full custody at birth and she could see the kid at set times alone, with a legal agreement spelling it all out. Either way, you have far more options working out a civil arrangement with her rather than getting the courts involved and being adversarial.
In general (not relating to MTT) it is best to select a nice suitable woman who is good mother material to have a child with as a conscious choice rather than as an accident. That way you will want her to be part of your life and the child will probably be beter adjusted as a result having two parents who get along with each other and care about the child and wanted it. If we as hobbyists like having sex with beautiful women we don't know at all (pro or civilian), condoms are the way to go. Yes, Durex, Durex, Durex all the way.
It's 3am - I'm going to bed now that I've said my 2 cents. 'Night y'all.
1. If you wore a condon and it broke, I would have more sympathy for your position. That said, you have clearly stated your position that you in no way want the woman to have your child.
2. Keebler Elf and Captain Fantastic were hard on you in 123 and 132 MTT, but the way you worded your views did make you appear uncaring and a tad on the...how shall we say... 'nasty' side. Now, you have said if the child is yours you will pay support and not shirk your responsibilities. So telling him to man up is overkill as he said he will pay support if it is his, he however isn't happy to put it mildly about the possibility and wants the fetus aborted to end the matter once and for all.
3. It is clear MTT does not want to be a father. From his posts in this thread it appears he would not make a very good father to a child, as many have expressed, most recently LadyTY2UALL. The Mexi had a good idea with adoption being a good option in this case. MTT says he doesn't ever want kids period. We have no idea what the woman wants. Maybe she is interested in the support payments because she wanted to have a child and couldn't afford to alone as Kyra I think mentioned. So she would abort if it was RollingStoneguy's kid, but not if it was MTT's as he has deeper pockets.
4. Abortion is not an easy decision for many woman. I personally, while approving of a woman's right to choose, do not approve of abortion. An ex g/f of mine had an abortion (before we met - not my child) and it bothered her for years psychologically afterward. Some don't care and brush it off as no big deal, but others do care and it is a traumatic choice to make for them. So I would not brush off the proceedure you want her to have as minor.
5. If the woman is manipulating you, assess your options. If the test proves you are the father and you can't stand the woman as you say, and don't want anything to do with a child ever, then while a court can and will impose support on you they can't force you to see her or the child if you refuse to. Your lawyer can send your monthly child support cheque to her. I just went on a date with a hot 19 year old college girl who said she met her biological father once in her life when she was 15 years old on her own initiative of tracking him down and never saw him since then. He paid support through his lawyer but wanted zero contact and got it.
6. I was talking last year in another thread about one day, since I wanted biological offspring but didn't think I'd ever marry, paying a surrogate to have my child for me. In your situation you may have got it for free (by free I mean no big fee to her for the inconveinence of carrying a baby to term). Now I know you DON'T want a kid, but I'm just saying there is a bright side to everything, depending on one's perspective.
7. If, as has been suggested by others, you are civil to this woman you have a choice of whether you see the child and have a meaningful role in its life. If you treat her as the enemy, any meaningful role for you will be minimal. If you don't care and want no part of the child or her, then being civil might at least get you her telling the child as it grows up that you weren't ready for parenting by weren't a bad guy per se as you paid child support. If you pay after a "war" where she hates you, she will probably tell the kid "your biological father was an asshat" even if you pay. Just something to think about.
So yeah, if it was me I'd probably be happy she wanted to have the kid if it was biologically mine. If I didn't like her at all and it was a drunk roll in the hay that led to this situation I'd suggest either paying child support and seeing the kid at certain times on my own, or offering her a lump sum to give me full custody at birth and she could see the kid at set times alone, with a legal agreement spelling it all out. Either way, you have far more options working out a civil arrangement with her rather than getting the courts involved and being adversarial.
In general (not relating to MTT) it is best to select a nice suitable woman who is good mother material to have a child with as a conscious choice rather than as an accident. That way you will want her to be part of your life and the child will probably be beter adjusted as a result having two parents who get along with each other and care about the child and wanted it. If we as hobbyists like having sex with beautiful women we don't know at all (pro or civilian), condoms are the way to go. Yes, Durex, Durex, Durex all the way.
It's 3am - I'm going to bed now that I've said my 2 cents. 'Night y'all.
Ya know I am sitting here reading this thread and all I can say is.
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DEMAND A CHILD NOT BE BORN
With that said I understand your wanting to verify you are the father. Verified you have to stand up and be more than the dick you were born with. As far as your make her suffer plan. So far you are the one who is suffering and it seems to me you want to share the pain. What a childish attitude. GROW UP
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DEMAND A CHILD NOT BE BORN
With that said I understand your wanting to verify you are the father. Verified you have to stand up and be more than the dick you were born with. As far as your make her suffer plan. So far you are the one who is suffering and it seems to me you want to share the pain. What a childish attitude. GROW UP
Let me know when you are ready to take a trip and meet her. I will get your back.a 1 player said:
You're not paying attention. What I am suggesting, through experience, is that we as MEN have to accept that if we make a mistake, there are serious consequences and ramifications.themexi said:
Just like if you drive drunk and kill someone or do something regrettable that causes irreparable damage, you have to live with that, financially and emotionally. Jail time, lawsuits, etc. You do the crime, you deserve to do the time.
The woman has a much greater responsibility, in case you hadn't figured it out. It's called 9 months of carrying a baby, childbirth and then 18+ years of raising said child. That's some serious fucking responsibility, don't you think?
Why are they unfair? Because a man could not cover his cock up? A simple act can avoid all of this. A woman should have to bear ALL of the responsibility because of both parties' "mistakes"? A woman should be forcd to have an abortion or raise a child on her own because the man could not control himself? How is that fair, reasonable or exhibiting common sense?themexi said:
Nope, I'll say it again, you're a misogynist. Either that or you believe men have more rights than women, in that they have the right to escape their responsibilities.
Nice leap in logic there, oh enlightened one.themexi said:
And you claim to be intelligent and capable of independent, reasoned thought?
My point is the woman has the most at stake here: physical, emotional, psychological and financial. Of course the man has a stake in things, but quite simply, we as men have to use our big heads. If we're not ready to be fathers, then we shouldn't be playing Russian roulette.
Again, how dare you (in the role of "man") make the decision for both people? Just because a guy was careless, does not release him of his obligations. The woman still has to go through the stress of pregnancy vs. abortion and all of the pros and cons for her. If she chooses to keep a baby, why on Earth should the man who stuck his uncovered dick in her not have to pay for his part in this?themexi said:
I'll use another way-out-there example: if I fire a gun off and the bullet hits someone, I am responsible for that bullet, committed or otherwise.
I'm all for the man and woman having a discussion about the options and being honest with their desires, but at the end of the day, the woman has the final say. And rightfully so.
Well, you did not make a reasoned argument in your first post, which is why i refuted it. In fact, all you did was make it personal, which is why I responded. You edited it to make a little more sense, but you still defaulted to the equivalent of "tough luck bitch, I don't wanna pay so I'm outta here" so I would not consider that particularly useful. But that's beside the point.themexi said:
Your logic baffles me. As a final non-sequitur "responsibility" example: to me you're basically saying if my dog attacks your child or pet, I'm not responsible for its actions, because you should have looked after your child/pet better. Forget the fact that my dog is big, wild and untrained, you should have protected your child/pet better...?themexi said:
To avoid all of this bullshit, a man has three options:
1. keep his dick in his pants - or at least out of her pussy
2. always use protection (and provide his own) until he's ready to get married/have children
3. get a vasectomy
Your arguments leave WAY too many openings for douchebags to wiggle out of their responsibilities. For example, what if the guy is in a "committed relationship" and then out of the blue decides he doesn't want a child? What if a guy claims to be sterile or have had a vasectomy? What if he takes advantage of a drunk/drugged out girl? Your logic leaves far too many loopholes for an adult male to get out of his responsibilities.
The reason I am so passionate about this is simple (and it has nothing to do with Berkeley or women's studies): I have been down this road before. I was very young and very stupid, but I realized my error almost immediately. I wanted to run, to scream, to shout and to cajole the girl into having an abortion. But ultimately, I recognized that I made a mistake too. Since I could only control myself, I understood the ramifications of my actions. And I honestly believe that we all have to live with our mistakes and make amends for them for the rest of our lives. I also learned to take responsibility for each and every one of my actions from that day forward.
I sat down and talked to this girl for days. We discussed all of the options - termination, giving our baby up for adoption or having a child together. We talked of our hopes and dreams for the future and how this baby would affect those. And after we talked, I recognized that I had said my piece and it was now time to shut the fuck up and listen - to her feelings, to her emotions, to her fears. And I realized that mine were nothing in comparison. Money is just money. A woman is almost always more attached to her child than a man is - nine months of pregnancy and the bonding that occurs pretty much ensures that. Anyone who makes pregnancy, birth and children about money is subhuman. Behind every child is a story, a series of emotions and physical and mental trials and tribulations. To worry about dollars and cents makes no sense when we're talking about three human beings.
We ended up having an abortion and to this day it still haunts me. I know it was the beginning of the end of our relationship and it definitely scarred her for life. Sometimes I still think back and tears well up in my eyes...
I sympathize with guys like a1player and empathize with Mao (except for his bitterness and hatred in wanting to declare war and mess with this woman's already fragile psyche.) But I don't have time for any man who doesn't own up to his responsibilities. As men, we have to learn to think with our big heads a little more and keep the little heads under wraps a LOT more, unless we're willing to become fathers and accept all the obligations that come with that.
