Native North Americans

[mandrill]

Perhaps they were indeed a nasty bunch but history would judge their nastiness as entirely appropriate given the fate that lay in store for them.

Nah. They were grossly nasty when they had no idea what was eventually in store for them. It was just easy for them to raid, loot, rape and kill small Mexican and Texan settlements. It went on for over 100 years. I guess no different from IV's Vikings. But they weren't victims in any but the most white-washed SJW version of American history until the last 20 years of their reign when the US cavalry was all over them.

 

[mandrill]

Damn right, Black Robe caused a firestorm when it first came out. Released not long after Dances with Wolves, the Indian community was in an uproar - even though the film is superior to Kevin Costner's. All the Indians in Black Robe were no different than anyone else. The film is about the Jesuit mission to Huronia in the last days of Champlain. Lotharie Bluteau played Father Laforge, he would go on to play Emperor Charles the Unready in Vikings. Imho, August Schellenberg is the best Native actor Canada has ever produced.

Black Robe - point in issue. Sure the Native Canadians were eventually suppressed and subjugated. But they had a shit-fine time for over a century killing and torturing each other and white people. (And yeah, the whites killed back.)

Go look up The Beaver Wars on Wiki and see how the Iroquois systematically genocided the Hurons and every other tribe in the Eastern Great Lakes region, so they could have all the beaver and trade that beaver for guns to kill other Natives with. To get more beaver. To get more guns. To kill more Indians. Etc.

The Iroquois depopulated Ohio, Kentucky and Southern Ontario of other tribes so they could have the entire area as a beaver cachment. And when I say "depopulated", I don't mean buying their rivals bus tickets for Los Angeles.

There's nothing "nice" or "Victim" about the Iroquois right up until the last couple of decades of their reign.

 

[james t kirk]

FYI the term "Indian" is not correct.

It's indigenous.

 

[LT56]

Nah. They were grossly nasty when they had no idea what was eventually in store for them. It was just easy for them to raid, loot, rape and kill small Mexican and Texan settlements. It went on for over 100 years. I guess no different from IV's Vikings. But they weren't victims in any but the most white-washed SJW version of American history until the last 20 years of their reign when the US cavalry was all over them.

If they had not been so aggressively nasty they likely would have become victims much sooner. I’m sorry but the way you frame this kinda makes it sound like the Commanchees deserved the fate that they got...I’m sure that’s not what you mean but I just have trouble buying into an idea that they were “nasty”, especially in light of how things turned out for them.

It seems to me that they viewed European settlers as a threat...and it turned out they were right.

 

[mandrill]

If they had not been so aggressively nasty they likely would have become victims much sooner. I’m sorry but the way you frame this kinda makes it sound like the Commanchees deserved the fate that they got...I’m sure that’s not what you mean but I just have trouble buying into an idea that they were “nasty”, especially in light of how things turned out for them.

It seems to me that they viewed European settlers as a threat...and it turned out they were right.

Deserved what they got?...... I'm not looking at things in a moral sense. The Americans over ran North America because that was how it was inevitably going to be, given the cultural, demographic and material disparity.

If they were less nasty, the Comanches may have gone under 10 or 15 years earlier. 20,000 or so hunter-gatherers stand no chance against a Victorian Era army, nasty or not.

And did they view European settlers as a threat? Eventually. When the Americans took over the south west from Mexico in the 1850's and started to police and populate it. Hitherto, the Comanche just saw settlers - many of whom were indigenous peoples who had been hispanicized by the Mexicans - as people they could kill, rape and loot.

Might help if you read some histories of the Comanche and the Texas Indian Wars. It would give you a little background. The Comanche raided northern Mexico from the 1750's until the US took over the Southwest. The Mexicans were no real threat. Mexico didn't have the resources or drive to settle and control its northern territories. Those territories were in reality controlled and settled by the Comanche, the Apache and the Navajo, among others. Those tribes raided out of their own home territories into the Mexican settlements in the same way Ragnar Lothbrok's vikings raided Saxon England. There was stuff and slaves to be had and raiding was fun and manly.

 

[jcpro]

Don't care about Indians or indigenous or whatever name they use these days. The history of humanity is the history of population changes, shifts and movements. Those who adapt, survive- in one form or another. Those who don't, don't.

 

[Smallcock]

They and the people of Quebec need to integrate into the rest of Canada.

It's hilarious that Canadian kids are still forced to attend French class in school and that everything product sold has to be packaged in bilingual writing.

 

[Insidious Von]

Go look up The Beaver Wars on Wiki and see how the Iroquois systematically genocided the Hurons and every other tribe in the Eastern Great Lakes region, so they could have all the beaver and trade that beaver for guns to kill other Natives with. To get more beaver. To get more guns. To kill more Indians. Etc.

Voracious reader that I still am i know all about the Beaver Wars. The Iroquois were the Romans of the Baroque Age, their empire reached it's peak by the mid 17th Century. They were aligned with the English Colonies who bought the beaver pelts, the English taught them to take scalps as trophies, particularly the French. At it's greatest extent, the Iroquois Empire controlled most of the Great Lakes. And like the Romans, they ran into an enemy they couldn't defeat: The Cree. The Algonquin tribes aligned with the French and it backfired on them, they were almost completely wiped out. It proved ominous for the Iroquois, it eliminated a buffer zone between them and the Northern tribes. The Iroquois lost the Battle of Mattawa. That allowed the new citadel the French had built to resist Iroquois incursions: Montreal.

 

[james t kirk]

They and the people of Quebec need to integrate into the rest of Canada.

It's hilarious that Canadian kids are still forced to attend French class in school and that everything product sold has to be packaged in bilingual writing.

Actually I fully support bilingualism.

Learning another language is an incredibly valuable skill and should be encouraged.

 

[SQUAD51]

You forgot Quebec.

LMAO
I had them in my first draft, but decided it to leave them out, but on reflection you're right.
all of the first list want control and base it on faith and the Gypsies on money, but the francos want control based on language.
at the end of the day, they just want control and power.

 

[mandrill]

Voracious reader that I still am i know all about the Beaver Wars. The Iroquois were the Romans of the Baroque Age, their empire reached it's peak by the mid 17th Century. They were aligned with the English Colonies who bought the beaver pelts, the English taught them to take scalps as trophies, particularly the French. At it's greatest extent, the Iroquois Empire controlled most of the Great Lakes. And like the Romans, they ran into an enemy they couldn't defeat: The Cree. The Algonquin tribes aligned with the French and it backfired on them, they were almost completely wiped out. It proved ominous for the Iroquois, it eliminated a buffer zone between them and the Northern tribes. The Iroquois lost the Battle of Mattawa. That allowed the new citadel the French had built to resist Iroquois incursions: Montreal.

The Comanche were the other great imperial power in North America. They chose to move south into better buffalo country (from their ancestral homeland in the Northern Planes) and did it as a military operation, massacring the tribes in their way. Once installed in TX and NM, they drove out the Apache and started to regularly raid into Chihuahua and rest of Northern Mexico. The Mexicans were militarily impotent and could only watch in horror. The Texans attempted to fight back when they too were raided. But American tactics involved riding to battle and then dismounting to advance on foot with their flintlock rifles. The Comanche stayed mounted and avoided the Texan main forces and butchered stragglers and small detachments.

The Texans learnt their lesson after their first expeditions were butchered. They purchased the new Colt revolvers. Each Texas Ranger would have 2 or 3 of these and they would charge into the Comanche on horseback and skirmish with them on better than even terms.

I've listed a couple of books to get you started.

https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_n...dian+wars&rh=n:2972705011,k:texas+indian+wars

https://www.amazon.ca/Comanches-His...=UTF8&qid=1515765614&sr=1-1&keywords=comanche

https://www.amazon.ca/Empire-Summer...15765677&sr=1-3-spell&keywords=quannah+parker

 

[Insidious Von]

The Comanche were the Huns of the Indian world but every conqueror has their nemesis. The Huns were wiped out by Turkic tribes, the Texans started taking their toll on the Comanche.

On their first attempt, the Iroquois did manage to sack Fort Montreal (located on Mt Royal) but the lost half their raiding party. The French rebuilt and after Mattawa, the Iroquois never attempted to take the island again.

 

[Smallcock]

Actually I fully support bilingualism.

Learning another language is an incredibly valuable skill and should be encouraged.

Perhaps if that language is Mandarin. French doesn't have much currency in the world.

It is a great skill, but one that should be learned voluntarily, not made officially mandatory.

 

[oldjones]

Perhaps if that language is Mandarin. French doesn't have much currency in the world.

It is a great skill, but one that should be learned voluntarily, not made officially mandatory.

Is there any such place, where it is officially mandatory to be bilingual?

 

[james t kirk]

Perhaps if that language is Mandarin. French doesn't have much currency in the world.

It is a great skill, but one that should be learned voluntarily, not made officially mandatory.

Yeah, but we're in Canada and French is one of two official languages and you will go much further if you speak French than if you do not.

One need only look around at how incredibly popular French Immersion is in Ontario.

It's a good thing.

Plus if you speak French, Italian and Spanish are a natural extension. (All 3 being latin languages.)