Native North Americans

[Insidious Von]

I was disgusted that the Golden Goobers completely ignored Wind River. Hollywood may be about to add insult to injury.

There's a new film coming out called Hostiles, with Christian Bale and Rosamund Pike as the leads, it would be something I'd watch. Then I read the premise and it left me scratching my head, this could be the most controversial film since Black Robe. The film tells the story of an Army Colonel assigned to escort an Indian Chief back to his ancestral lands. It's also Sam Sheppard's last film credit. It's controversial since the Comanche are cast as the villains. They are an Indian tribe exterminated by Europeans, making them the heavies looks cheap.

 

[unassuming]

It was ignored since it's a Weinstein production.

 

[mandrill]

I was disgusted that the Golden Goobers completely ignored Wind River. Hollywood may be about to add insult to injury.

There's a new film coming out called Hostiles, with Christian Bale and Rosamund Pike as the leads, it would be something I'd watch. Then I read the premise and it left me scratching my head, this could be the most controversial film since Black Robe. The film tells the story of an Army Colonel assigned to escort an Indian Chief back to his ancestral lands. It's also Sam Sheppard's last film credit. It's controversial since the Comanche are cast as the villains. They are an Indian tribe exterminated by Europeans, making them the heavies looks cheap.

The Comanches weren't exterminated. They were reservationed, like the other tribes. The C's are the subject of a number of Old West horror stories which describe them as meaner than the Apaches and Sioux put together. Some of that is now being debated and possibly revised. But they were nasty nonetheless. They raised hell and terror in West TX and Northern Mexico for a couple of generations, raiding small settlements.

I know it's the #metoo generation and we're all SJW's now, but the Comanches as nasties isn't a stretch.

 

[oldjones]

The Comanches weren't exterminated. They were reservationed, like the other tribes. The C's are the subject of a number of Old West horror stories which describe them as meaner than the Apaches and Sioux put together. Some of that is now being debated and possibly revised. But they were nasty nonetheless. They raised hell and terror in West TX and Northern Mexico for a couple of generations, raiding small settlements.

I know it's the #metoo generation and we're all SJW's now, but the Comanches as nasties isn't a stretch.

No more than painting the Americans in Viet Nam as unrelieved nasties is a stretch, as if zippoing native hooches at places like My Lai was all they ever did there.

There isn't a 'people' on Earth that doesn't have its history of evil, but given we Euro-Americans have pretty much only told that side of the story about the folks we moved in on and began exterminating in 1492, Von makes a valid point about self-serving racist prejudice and intentional ignorance. Too bad there was no way he could make his point when the script was just a writer's notion; getting balance when tickets are already being sold can take generations of pushback.

And you hafta sit through the racist movies first, if you really want your points taken seriously.

 

[SQUAD51]

The social media and the media in general can't manage more than one issue at a time, so be patient we'll get to all of our ills out and publicly aired soon enough.
Currently we're in #metoo mode. once a few more have fallen of the "openly known predators" have fallen then the focus will turn to the next trendy social injustice.
-In Canada, we will revisit the crimes against the aboriginal because the liberals will want to deflect financial accountability within the first nations of treaty monies paid, and he needs to keep their peace at the next election.
-In the US they will revisit history and neglect black race relations and tell stories about how the aboriginals weren't the same ones the British made deals with, and that's why they had to run them all into reservations or worse.
Before everyone gets all technical on what happened where and to who, lets remember the media cant tell a complicated story. it has to be a simple construct to get attention, understanding and advertising support.

 

[james t kirk]

The thing is.......

Way back when in Canada when they established the reservations, it was a form of Apartheid. Let's be honest. White people didn't want red people living among them. Out of sight, out of mind.

Ironically, all that did was create 2 parallel civilizations inside one country.

Now, in 2018, the entire country of Canada wants the Indigenous people to be part of Canadian society. Join the party. Canada truly is a very diverse country and is a welcoming and tolerant society. Now here's the rub......The Indigenous peoples want no part of that dream. For the most part, they want to remain isolated and insulated in their "traditional ways" and they will resist any and all change at all costs.

2 parallel societies in Canada cannot work. Ironically, Trudeau the elder was a firm believer of this as well, however, Trudeau the younger is doing everything and more to maintain the parallelism that his father recognized as unsustainable.

 

[Insidious Von]

It was ignored since it's a Weinstein production.

Of course which is also why The Current War has been pushed out of awards season and may need another distributor to get released. I was looking forward to watching the great Michael Shannon as George Westinghouse. Wind River has a 91% audience rating on RT, which is higher than all the films in award season.

According to the book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee the Comanche were reduced to a population of less than 1000 by the time they were stuck on a reservation. The book didn't say if there are any left. When Marlon Brando met ************ Trudeau on behalf of Indian concerns, the Prime Minister said to him, "you exterminated your Indians, we starved them to death".

The Europeans didn't have it their own way everywhere they went:

 

[Aardvark154]

It surprised me as well that the Golden Globes ignored Wind River. However, I'm certain that Unassuming is correct it was sent to 'purgatory' because it was a Weinstein Company film. I'm sure the same thing will occur at the Oscars.

 

[Aardvark154]

The thing is.......The Indigenous peoples want no part of that dream. For the most part, they want to remain isolated and insulated in their "traditional ways" and they will resist any and all change at all costs.

You may be correct that it is unsustainable, but if this is what First Nations want. . . . .

 

[Aardvark154]

Comanche Nation

Von, there are about 15 thousand members of the Comanche Nation which has its headquarters in Lawton, Oklahoma.

 

[SQUAD51]

The Apartheid comment is correct.
We kept them amongst themselves on lands they did not surrender to the crown and remained as part of treaty deals.
But the big scoop of 50's and the residential schools were a means to an end of getting aboriginals assimiliated to the rest of the country.
We know how that worked (which by the way was mostly done under Liberal regimes, because you know " they know better" right?)
But the desire to remain separate and distinct is not uncommon. Look at the Hasidic community in NYC, the Amish, Hutterites, Mennonites, Gypsy travelers.
Maybe they're the smart and enlightened ones, because in their world diversity is NOT strength.

 

[Insidious Von]

You may be correct that it is unsustainable, but if this is what First Nations want. . . . .

I disagree, the Natives lived within nature. They didn't try to control it, we've found out the hard way that nature always wins.

 

[mandrill]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche_Wars

While the Comanche certainly and inevitably got the worst of the struggle from the 1850's onwards, they had their own way for a century so before that and raided, killed and butchered freely throughout the Southwest. Does that make them monsters? Well, to white or Mexican settlers who came upon the tortured and mutilated remains of their friends and relatives, yes.

I've been through the "innocent noble savage" conversation on this board before. Maybe in the 20th and 21st Century, that's true. But the tribes in their heyday were pretty freaking nasty.

 

[Garrett]

I disagree, the Natives lived within nature. They didn't try to control it, we've found out the hard way that nature always wins.

That sounds very poetic. The reality is they had no choice. They had no technology, and were highly divisive.
Today they have technology and they choose not to live within nature, for the simple reason it is a very hard life.
It is the same reason I choose not to live in a sod hut.

As for their choosing to remain apart today, it is for a simple reason: money.
People are getting rich on the reserve while others suffer.
It is always about the $.

 

[Insidious Von]

Garrett nature does always win.

How long can we continue with our high digital standard of living, everything comes to an end. It's not just an Indian problem.

Humanity Great Dying may be just around the corner.

 

[Garrett]

Garrett nature does always win.

I should have been clearer. I have zero issue with that statement. I have an issue with the romantic notion that indigenous people lived in harmony with nature by choice. Reality was much different, with evidence in their life expectancy, examination of their remains, etc.

 

[rhuarc29]

I was disgusted that the Golden Goobers completely ignored Wind River. Hollywood may be about to add insult to injury.

There's a new film coming out called Hostiles, with Christian Bale and Rosamund Pike as the leads, it would be something I'd watch. Then I read the premise and it left me scratching my head, this could be the most controversial film since Black Robe. The film tells the story of an Army Colonel assigned to escort an Indian Chief back to his ancestral lands. It's also Sam Sheppard's last film credit. It's controversial since the Comanche are cast as the villains. They are an Indian tribe exterminated by Europeans, making them the heavies looks cheap.

Why? Are only white men allowed to be villains now?
Most modern movies show Natives as the heroes and colonials as villains. One film the other way around isn't going to break that mould. And hell, we don't know yet exactly how it plays out anyway.

 

[james t kirk]

The Apartheid comment is correct.
We kept them amongst themselves on lands they did not surrender to the crown and remained as part of treaty deals.
But the big scoop of 50's and the residential schools were a means to an end of getting aboriginals assimiliated to the rest of the country.
We know how that worked (which by the way was mostly done under Liberal regimes, because you know " they know better" right?)
But the desire to remain separate and distinct is not uncommon. Look at the Hasidic community in NYC, the Amish, Hutterites, Mennonites, Gypsy travelers.
Maybe they're the smart and enlightened ones, because in their world diversity is NOT strength.

You forgot Quebec.

 

[Insidious Von]

You forgot Quebec.

Damn right, Black Robe caused a firestorm when it first came out. Released not long after Dances with Wolves, the Indian community was in an uproar - even though the film is superior to Kevin Costner's. All the Indians in Black Robe were no different than anyone else. The film is about the Jesuit mission to Huronia in the last days of Champlain. Lotharie Bluteau played Father Laforge, he would go on to play Emperor Charles the Unready in Vikings. Imho, August Schellenberg is the best Native actor Canada has ever produced.

 

[Insidious Von]

August Schellenberg was a Mohawk and the ultimate Sitting Bull.