My opinionated opinion of the garbage strike
- Thread starter Yoga Face
- Start date
Canada is a Mixed Economy, not a socialist democratic economy. The private sector is responsible for wealth creation, and we have a vigorous public sector that does things that the private sector will not or cannot.
In the past, Canada had a much more active public sector. State owned railways, air transportation and infrastructure were required because of the lack of private capital and the low population density.
We do not allow the invisible hand of the market to totally dictate terms of the market place. Left to itself, the market leads to social unrest and environmental degradation.
IMHO, if someone is unhappy getting 18 paid sick days a year, they should start up their own business and take as much time off as they like.
In the past, Canada had a much more active public sector. State owned railways, air transportation and infrastructure were required because of the lack of private capital and the low population density.
We do not allow the invisible hand of the market to totally dictate terms of the market place. Left to itself, the market leads to social unrest and environmental degradation.
IMHO, if someone is unhappy getting 18 paid sick days a year, they should start up their own business and take as much time off as they like.
Just to point out that many posters in the various TO strike threads are quite happy to indulge in the evil of telling union members what they have a right to earn. Completely ignoring the facts: That what they have earned, is what the employer and they freely agreed to, and that what is going on now is re-negociating that deal. Which hasn't stopped the more rabid from asserting they have no right to what they're asking.a 1 player said:
I especially appreciate the last point, because again, the rabid refuse to accept that any truth but theirs—even if sloppily expressed, or unsubstantiated by facts—can exist. In fact the basic premise of democracy is that no one person or party can know the truth, and the only way we can all prosper is by each exercising our freedoms to be different. The truth is, there is no truth, only process.
It's why The Queen has a Loyal Opposition, even if President's don't. We need such things.
OJ;
Just like a couple of posters have pointed out, times change. Women are people not chattel, it's not alright to beat your kids and knocking back a few then driving is not ok. Again, what was accepted years back at the negotiating table may not be right today. Time for a change.
Just like a couple of posters have pointed out, times change. Women are people not chattel, it's not alright to beat your kids and knocking back a few then driving is not ok. Again, what was accepted years back at the negotiating table may not be right today. Time for a change.
If you eat every day. Have achieved an education that affords you basic literacy and numeracy. Have access to indoor plumbing. See a doctor when you choose to. Are living in a community protected by police, firefighters, ambulances. Access telecommunications such as internet, telephone, television. Have your own clothes and shoes that fit and belonged exclusively to you and noone else (unless you like Value Village). Then welcome to the 20% category mister moneychanger.Yoga Face said:
If you have ever used the services of a sexual provider like the ones who advertise here. Enjoyed commercially available wine or beer. Used the services of an accountant, lawyer, or tax preparer. Owned a private vehicle such as a car or van or SUV. Then you are more likely in the top 5 to 10 percent.
And 18 sick days does not sound excessive. Most jobs permit 6 days before they issue verbal warnings. 10 before they issue written warnings and administer attendance action plans. 14 is an automatic dismissal. Many people lose their jobs over this very issue so 18 does not sound excessive. But banking sick days in lieu of a sound pension plan is just wrong. If the unions want better pensions for their members then they should be bargaining for better pensions.
Where did I go wrong. Did BM not get his $80,000 or won't it buy as much as I thought. Please help me here.oldjones said:
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Why exactly did you start a new thread for the same rhetoric which is in the garbage thread......which come to think about is where this one belongs.
By the way why don't you introduce yourself to MrBig. You seem to share some of the same delusions. If he's not around try oldjones.
By the way why don't you introduce yourself to MrBig. You seem to share some of the same delusions. If he's not around try oldjones.
I may be wrong and definitely not a lawyer, but I'm under the impression that if it can be shown that any contract is terrifically unfair to one party and too advantageous to the second party, then the contract can overturned. It may be American contract law bit I don't know.
One can only FREELY agree to something when one is FREE to choose the service provider (SP). There is no freedomoldjones said:
when one is stuck with negotiating with only one party who has the power to shut down the city.Finally some people are getting it and speaking out.Rockslinger said:One can only FREELY agree to something when one is FREE to choose the service provider (SP). There is no freedom
Unions breeding vermin
Read this story & tell me that unions contribute positively to our society Mr.Big1949
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/090704/canada/canada_toronto_christie_pits
The fucking picketers are blocking a pest control company that has been spraying garbage at the Christie Pits temporary dump site.
Pretty soon there will be more rats there than the ones with picket signs
This is a serious public health issue & these selfish fucks dont care about anyone other them selves.
This is absolutely despicable
My guess is none of these assholes live close by
Read this story & tell me that unions contribute positively to our society Mr.Big1949
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/090704/canada/canada_toronto_christie_pits
The fucking picketers are blocking a pest control company that has been spraying garbage at the Christie Pits temporary dump site.
Pretty soon there will be more rats there than the ones with picket signs
This is a serious public health issue & these selfish fucks dont care about anyone other them selves.
This is absolutely despicable
My guess is none of these assholes live close by
I feel that everyone should be entitled to some sick days, but they shouldn't be bankable and you should need to present a doctor's note to qualify for taking one.
In my previous job we had no paid sick days. The problem with this is that people who were sick enough that they should have stayed home had to come to work as they couldn't afford to lose a day's wages (or more). So what this accomplished was to spread their illness amongst their coworkers many of which could afford to take a day or two off.
So instead of the company paying the sick person for a day or two to stay home, they ended up losing the production of several people for those days.
As for the post where someone was explaining the penalty process for sick days, if the company employs 50 or more people they cannot discipline any employee until they reach their 11th day off for emergency/illness reasons.
In my previous job we had no paid sick days. The problem with this is that people who were sick enough that they should have stayed home had to come to work as they couldn't afford to lose a day's wages (or more). So what this accomplished was to spread their illness amongst their coworkers many of which could afford to take a day or two off.
So instead of the company paying the sick person for a day or two to stay home, they ended up losing the production of several people for those days.
As for the post where someone was explaining the penalty process for sick days, if the company employs 50 or more people they cannot discipline any employee until they reach their 11th day off for emergency/illness reasons.
It's called the race to the bottom. People see someone else getting something they don't get and instead of saying, "Golly gee, how can I get that?", they say "That person doesn't deserve it." (and what they're really thinking is "I deserve it just as much as they do, if not more, so if I don't get it they shouldn't either")
Call it envy, jealousy, bitterness, whatever. It's been around since the beginning of time.
Part of the reason unions tend to get more than individuals is because of bargaining power. In short, the average joe has none. But if the average joe gets together with a bunch of his pals, together they now have better bargaining power. But if you're an individual who can't figure out how to unite with other individuals, you're likely going to be pretty bitter when you see other people doing what you wish you could be doing.
The race to the bottom is what happens when bitter/envious/jealous/whatever people want to take away what other people have that they don't have. Instead of taking the positive approach of trying to get where the other people are, they take the negative approach and try to bring the other people down to their level. In short, these people are an employer's dream. Whoever can undercut their fellow employees fastest "wins" (and usually these people don't have the mental wherewithal to realize how Pyrrhic their "victory" really is).
Call it envy, jealousy, bitterness, whatever. It's been around since the beginning of time.
Part of the reason unions tend to get more than individuals is because of bargaining power. In short, the average joe has none. But if the average joe gets together with a bunch of his pals, together they now have better bargaining power. But if you're an individual who can't figure out how to unite with other individuals, you're likely going to be pretty bitter when you see other people doing what you wish you could be doing.
The race to the bottom is what happens when bitter/envious/jealous/whatever people want to take away what other people have that they don't have. Instead of taking the positive approach of trying to get where the other people are, they take the negative approach and try to bring the other people down to their level. In short, these people are an employer's dream. Whoever can undercut their fellow employees fastest "wins" (and usually these people don't have the mental wherewithal to realize how Pyrrhic their "victory" really is).
You need an education son.Rockslinger said:
The city freely agreed to limit themselves to union labour. They agreed to limit their own ability to contract out work in their collective agreement.
Right now the collective agreement has expired. Ergo, the city can contract out all they want.
(Don't you just love hearing people talk about things to which they know absolutely nothing about.
)p.s., I dunno about you but Toronto is still running just fine. There may be some inconveniences, but last time I checked the Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn't say anything about a right to not be inconvenienced.
Certainly an interesting take. And I would agree with a lot of that when referring to private sector unions.Keebler Elf said:
However, when you are talking about public sector unions, then these "bitter/envious/jealous" people have a right to want to control costs as they/we are all footing the bill.
I agree with you but in fact this is the time to renegotiate the deal. The collective agreement was expiring (and now has expired) and the parties sat down to renegotiate. That's the process. The city wants the banked sick days out of the new agreement and the union wants to keep them in. Pretty simple.oldjones said:
This is how civilized society works. The parties sit down and try to come to an agreement. When and if they can't (like the situation we now have), the city can lock them out or the union members can vote to go on strike. They did the latter and here we are. Now it's a test of wills to see who blinks first: the city, the union, or the province (which could enact back to work legislation and send the outstanding matters to a third party arbitrator to decide).
People need to wake up from their fantasy world where everything should just be agreed to and there's never any disagreements about anything that could have even the slightest ability to inconvenience your lives.
This is the system. It may not be the most convenient, but in the long run it works. Now take a pill and chillax. It'll be over before you know it (so you can redirect your vitriol to the next flavor of the month antagonism that has your panties in a bunch).
If true, why would any intelligent and rational person limit himself to union labour? Also, why would any intelligent and rational person limit one's ability to contract out work?Keebler Elf said:
By way of an analogy, would any intelligent and rational TERBIE limit himself to just one SP?
