Musk Is 'President-Elect' After He Helped Tank Spending Plan: David Axelrod

[Butler1000]

Some information sourced from Quora and Reddit:
There are 65000 visas issued per year.
Majority goes to the Indian tech firms to which work is outsourced. About 70%.
These are short term employees who come onsite to the US to work with their clients.
A minority goes to international students. These students are paid on par with US workers even on a H1B.
Since it is only 70% of 65000 visas per year, I think the "depressing wages" narrative is being blown out of proportion.
There is a minimum wage requirement for H1B @ 60K per year.
So the fix is simple
Increase the minimum wage requirement.
But this is complicated as wages are tied to location, supply of labour, industry, position, seniority, place of education, work ex amongst other things.
So a great many of these jobs, like the list Loomer published, are jobs where 70K entry level pay is actually a fair salary. Not great. But fair enough.
Again this issue is blown out of proportion and the primary driver for MAGA is racism. MAGA knows nothing about tech jobs or their salaries.

The tech firms pay the minimum wage. Which is in some cases 1/3 of the going rate for tech workers. More importantly though is it is a firm of indentured servitude. They can be sent back at any time, work longer hours, can't complain. Probably have no healthcare plans etc.

It's Elon and Vivec wanting to keep them. That should tell you something. There don't exactly have workers best interest at heart, do they?

Whatever Maga's driver, doesn't change the fact that it's a shitty system.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Who said in Canada? You?

Are you that discombobulated to think Trump is head of state of Canada?

 

[Skoob]

Are you that discombobulated to think Trump is head of state of Canada?

Where did I say he was the head of state of Canada? Simple question.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The tech firms pay the minimum wage. Which is in some cases 1/3 of the going rate for tech workers. More importantly though is it is a firm of indentured servitude. They can be sent back at any time, work longer hours, can't complain. Probably have no healthcare plans etc.

It's Elon and Vivec wanting to keep them. That should tell you something. There don't exactly have workers best interest at heart, do they?

Whatever Maga's driver, doesn't change the fact that it's a shitty system.

I agree all temporary worker programs are shitty and yes they can be sent back any time.
But as I explained it is not true that they pay minimum wage in all cases.
For students who graduate in the US, they are paid on par.
The onsite workers are paid lower.
The resolution would be to increase the minimum threshold for those salaries, but that is easier said than done.

 

[Butler1000]

I agree all temporary worker programs are shitty and yes they can be sent back any time.
But as I explained it is not true that they pay minimum wage in all cases.
For students who graduate in the US, they are paid on par.
The onsite workers are paid lower.
The resolution would be to increase the minimum threshold for those salaries, but that is easier said than done.

I find it difficult to believe they can't fill the slots with American workers. I do find it easy to believe they don't want to pay the necessary rates to use American workers.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Where did I say he was the head of state of Canada? Simple question.

Your initial post: "Trump won the election and will be taking office next month."
Me: "In the US. Not in Canada".
You: "Who said in Canada? You?".
Pray tell me what mental gymnastics move you will resort to, to justify that your post does not read as "Trump will take office in Canada"?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I find it difficult to believe they can't fill the slots with American workers. I do find it easy to believe they don't want to pay the necessary rates to use American workers.

These are projects they outsource to India, the Phillipines, Pakistan etc.
Those projects have a huge headcount the majority of which are located in India.
The H1B visas are only for onsite personnel, which are a fraction of the total headcount.
So a 5M project, could easily cost 5 times as much if it was done in the US.
Same problem overall as manufacturing things in China vs the US.
It can be done. But it is cost prohibitive to do so.

 

[Butler1000]

These are projects they outsource to India, the Phillipines, Pakistan etc.
Those projects have a huge headcount the majority of which are located in India.
The H1B visas are only for onsite personnel, which are a fraction of the total headcount.
So a 5M project, could easily cost 5 times as much if it was done in the US.
Same problem overall as manufacturing things in China vs the US.
It can be done. But it is cost prohibitive to do so.

So you are for the multinationals lowering wages.

Good to know.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

So you are for the multinationals lowering wages.

Good to know.

I am not.
But it is blown out of proportion.
It does not have any significant impact on tech wages in the US.
Otherwise tech workers in the US wouldn't be getting the salaries they are today.

 

[Butler1000]

I am not.
But it is blown out of proportion.
It does not have any significant impact on tech wages in the US.
Otherwise tech workers in the US wouldn't be getting the salaries they are today.

That and outsourcing add up. You are taking the side of Tech billionaires. They don't lower prices, they just take the profit.

 

[dirtydaveiii]

it's hilarious how Trump suckers are now all for immigrants. Coming over on a visa and stsying after is exactly the same as running over the border. The main difference is that Biden sent people with crikinal records home while Trump encouraged people not to turn themselves in which led to far more criminals entering and remaining in the US

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

That and outsourcing add up. You are taking the side of Tech billionaires. They don't lower prices, they just take the profit.

I support a regulated free market.
This is free market at work and there are regulations to cap the number of workers, mandate a minimum salary etc.,
Salaries depend on many factors too.
So I dont see the problem here.
When you say they are depressing wages, you need to prove that.
The actual salary data shows that the extremely high tech salaries in the west coast are contrary to the depressing salaries narratives.

 

[Butler1000]

I support a regulated free market.
This is free market at work and there are regulations to cap the number of workers, mandate a minimum salary etc.,
Salaries depend on many factors too.
So I dont see the problem here.
When you say they are depressing wages, you need to prove that.
The actual salary data shows that the extremely high tech salaries in the west coast are contrary to the depressing salaries narratives.

Study finds H-1B visas depress American tech workers’ wages

The H-1B visa program has led to lower wages and employment for American tech workers, according to a new paper published under the auspices of the National Bureau of Economic...

www.electronicdesign.com

A majority of migrant workers employed with H-1B visas are paid below-median wages: Large tech firms, including Amazon, Google, and Microsoft, use visa program to underpay workers

A new EPI report sheds light on the H-1B visa program and the prevailing wage levels in the program, finding that nearly all H-1B employers—including major U.S. tech firms—are using the program to pay migrant workers well below market wages. The report’s release comes after President Trump...

www.epi.org

H1B slavery visa & abuse

H1B slavery visa & abuse

talk.dallasmakerspace.org

Some sampling. Talk to shills they will say how great it is. Talk to people in it off the record and you get these responses. Talk to Americans who can't get jobs in the field and you see what is happening.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Study finds H-1B visas depress American tech workers’ wages

The H-1B visa program has led to lower wages and employment for American tech workers, according to a new paper published under the auspices of the National Bureau of Economic...

www.electronicdesign.com

A majority of migrant workers employed with H-1B visas are paid below-median wages: Large tech firms, including Amazon, Google, and Microsoft, use visa program to underpay workers

A new EPI report sheds light on the H-1B visa program and the prevailing wage levels in the program, finding that nearly all H-1B employers—including major U.S. tech firms—are using the program to pay migrant workers well below market wages. The report’s release comes after President Trump...

www.epi.org

H1B slavery visa & abuse

H1B slavery visa & abuse

talk.dallasmakerspace.org

Some sampling. Talk to shills they will say how great it is. Talk to people in it off the record and you get these responses. Talk to Americans who can't get jobs in the field and you see what is happening.

If the study said a depression of 5%, that is nothing.
It is understandable too, because you are replacing with outsourced workers.
It doesn't make business sense to pay outsourced workers the same wages as US workers AND spend money to sponsor them a visa.
So anyway the study is not anything ground breaking.
As I said the wage impact of H1B is always bandied about and overstated.
A metric to compare against would have been how much it grew the US economy.
I also have already acknowledged the H1B program as shitty.
By the way, this is true of the Canadian Temporary Foreign Worker program as well.
This is why I would like all temporary foreign worker programs to be shut down completely.
But not for the reasons MAGA wants to shut it down (which is race).
For me it is about bringing in and keeping highly skilled immigrants while limiting low skilled, low wage workers.

 

[Butler1000]

If the study said a depression of 5%, that is nothing.
It is understandable too, because you are replacing with outsourced workers.
It doesn't make business sense to pay outsourced workers the same wages as US workers AND spend money to sponsor them a visa.
So anyway the study is not anything ground breaking.
As I said the wage impact of H1B is always bandied about and overstated.
A metric to compare against would have been how much it grew the US economy.
I also have already acknowledged the H1B program as shitty.
By the way, this is true of the Canadian Temporary Foreign Worker program as well.
This is why I would like all temporary foreign worker programs to be shut down completely.
But not for the reasons MAGA wants to shut it down (which is race).
For me it is about bringing in and keeping highly skilled immigrants while limiting low skilled, low wage workers.

So you want them to do the thing, but not for the assumed reason you think they have for it, without evidence it's solely tied to race, because of your own bias?

Got it.....

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

So you want them to do the thing, but not for the assumed reason you think they have for it, without evidence it's solely tied to race, because of your own bias?

Got it.....

Yes, yes.
The MAGA movement is not racist at all.
Their intentions were completely pure when they said these amongst many to an American congressman of Indian origin for his support of H1B visas:
"Can I buy you a ticket to Mumbai? One way, of course,"
"Wow, you are a foreigner shilling for more of your compatriots to flood into my country and compete against my people? Fuck you".
"You need to be denaturalized and deported"
"Go back to your own country and be innovative there"
This is just a sample.
The majority of these poorly educated idiots have no idea of what these tech jobs are or what they pay.
Anyone who thinks this cult operates on a higher level than the bare minimum tribalist attitudes is being intellectually dishonest.

 

[dirtydaveiii]

Yes, yes.
The MAGA movement is not racist at all.
Their intentions were completely pure when they said these amongst many to an American congressman of Indian origin for his support of H1B visas:
"Can I buy you a ticket to Mumbai? One way, of course,"
"Wow, you are a foreigner shilling for more of your compatriots to flood into my country and compete against my people? Fuck you".
"You need to be denaturalized and deported"
"Go back to your own country and be innovative there"
This is just a sample.
The majority of these poorly educated idiots have no idea of what these tech jobs are or what they pay.
Anyone who thinks this cult operates on a higher level than the bare minimum tribalist attitudes is being intellectually dishonest.

It doesn't matter down there it's just a Jerry springer show that never ends

 

[Butler1000]

Yes, yes.
The MAGA movement is not racist at all.
Their intentions were completely pure when they said these amongst many to an American congressman of Indian origin for his support of H1B visas:
"Can I buy you a ticket to Mumbai? One way, of course,"
"Wow, you are a foreigner shilling for more of your compatriots to flood into my country and compete against my people? Fuck you".
"You need to be denaturalized and deported"
"Go back to your own country and be innovative there"
This is just a sample.
The majority of these poorly educated idiots have no idea of what these tech jobs are or what they pay.
Anyone who thinks this cult operates on a higher level than the bare minimum tribalist attitudes is being intellectually dishonest.

You do realize a policy can have backers for different reasons right? Are you saying because a few racists support a policy or organization it is automatically suspect?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You do realize a policy can have backers for different reasons right? Are you saying because a few racists support a policy or organization it is automatically suspect?

The MAGA cult doesn't know of any other reasons.

 

[Butler1000]

The MAGA cult doesn't know of any other reasons.

Even the Black, Asian and Hispanic ones? Did you happen to look at the demographic voter breakdowns? You do realize there were people who voted for both Trump and AOC. There were Obama voters who voted for Trump.

Are you that myopic, simplistic and obtuse?