Most recent articles on prostitution related laws, opinions, comments

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
24,007
19,404
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It baffles my mind that anyone on this forum or any escort review board would still support these neanderthals in power.

All these articles, the ladies speaking up, some religious groups actually against this bill is all falling on deaf ears. This government is going to pass this bill regardless of what anyone says. I just hope Peter Mackay and Harper not only lose the next election but actually lose their seat. I know the latter is next to impossible but we can dream now can't we?
 

krazyplayer

Member
Jun 9, 2004
484
1
18
From my friend Julie Grant of SPOC

https://www.facebook.com/julie.grant.716

I talked to the people at Metroland Media today and they have stopped ads in these publications:
Metroland Media Toronto
Beach Mirror
Bloor West Villager
East York Mirror
Etobicoke Guardian
North York Mirror
Parkdale Liberty
Scarborough Mirror
The City Centre Mirror
York Guardian

And here:
York Region Media Group
Aurora Banner
Bradford West Gwillimbury Topic
Georgina Advocate
King Connection
Markham Economist & Sun
Newmarket Era
Richmond Hill/Thornhill Liberal
Stouffville Sun-Tribune
Vaughan Citizen

And next week here:
Metroland North Media Group
Alliston Herald
Almaguin News
Barrie Advance
Blue Mountains Courier-Herald
Bracebridge Examiner
District Weekender
Gravenhurst Banner
Huntsville Forester
Innisfil Journal
Lifestyles This Week
Meaford Express
Midland Penetangushene Mirror
Muskoka Sun
North Bay Nipissing News
Orillia Today
Parry Sound Beacon Star
Parry Sound North Star
The Connection
The Muskokan
The Stayner Sun
Wasaga Sun

One of the advertisers was told by a Metromedia staff person that they are "pulling the trigger on prostitution" after talks that were "sparked by bill c36".

All these workers in smaller towns are about to feel the wrath of c36 before it hits the senate.
 

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
2,077
0
36
It baffles my mind that anyone on this forum or any escort review board would still support these neanderthals in power.

All these articles, the ladies speaking up, some religious groups actually against this bill is all falling on deaf ears. This government is going to pass this bill regardless of what anyone says. I just hope Peter Mackay and Harper not only lose the next election but actually lose their seat. I know the latter is next to impossible but we can dream now can't we?
There was a recent survey where people were asked whether they had ever bought sex. 10% of the men answered yes, and another 10% refused to answer. We can guess that the latter 10% just don't want to admit to it to an anonymous person on the phone. So the possibility that 20% of Canadian men have bought sex at least once in the past represents a huge number of votes.

So unless a significant portion of that 20% now has huge pangs of guilt, it could result in a big loss of mainstream votes for the Conservatives if those voters decide to punish the Conservatives for legislating the conduct of their morals.
 

DigitallyYours

Off TERB indefinitely
Oct 31, 2010
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All it will take is one lower court judge to rule this law unconstitutional. I don't think judges would be so apt this time to leave the law in effect. They have the power to strike it down and declare it no longer in effect.
There is one major reason for not staying the judgment this time around. The government has already had a kick at the can at crafting legislation and they are choosing to go with a bill that they have been warned by many to be unconstitutional. So, the Court may not think that the government deserves a stay.

It may take up to five years to reach the SC but it could be long dead before it gets there. Also, if the Cons are still in power they would need a reason to appeal it, some kind of procedural error in the original ruling, something like that. They could have an appeal refused.
An appeal can always be filed on a point of law. And that point of law can simply be "the judge failed to consider the evidence..." or something like that. It's a pretty low bar.

Also, it would be unlikely the Libs or the NDP would even pursue an appeal, even if one had already been launched by the outgoing government.
Also, I'm pretty sure the day this piece of garbage goes into effect, there will be a mad rush of lawyers to the courts.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if the NDP were in power. Suppose Boivin became the Minister of Justice. As the AG, she would become the other side to the litigation. That would be weird.
 

Marla

Active member
Mar 29, 2010
1,563
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ajax
I absolutely love this thread although I am not a contributor. I just want to commend everyone who spends so much time and devotion to ensuring we have the latest updates to better inform ourselves. At times, I have to admit I get a little emotional reading some of the entries, usually emotional with rage but it is a cathartic thread for all of us as we go through this slow acceptance of what reality is going to be forcing upon us.
Without this thread, rumors and hysteria would be rampant and no one would no what they were doing. Thank you so much. Do you realize you are close to 1000 posts?
 

DigitallyYours

Off TERB indefinitely
Oct 31, 2010
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This thread is awesome. Nothing like it out there. I poked around other forums including PERB and MERB recently. Overall, TERB has the best coverage of C-36 by far.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
24,007
19,404
113
From my friend Julie Grant of SPOC

https://www.facebook.com/julie.grant.716

I talked to the people at Metroland Media today and they have stopped ads in these publications:
Metroland Media Toronto
Beach Mirror
Bloor West Villager
East York Mirror
Etobicoke Guardian
North York Mirror
Parkdale Liberty
Scarborough Mirror
The City Centre Mirror
York Guardian

And here:
York Region Media Group
Aurora Banner
Bradford West Gwillimbury Topic
Georgina Advocate
King Connection
Markham Economist & Sun
Newmarket Era
Richmond Hill/Thornhill Liberal
Stouffville Sun-Tribune
Vaughan Citizen

And next week here:
Metroland North Media Group
Alliston Herald
Almaguin News
Barrie Advance
Blue Mountains Courier-Herald
Bracebridge Examiner
District Weekender
Gravenhurst Banner
Huntsville Forester
Innisfil Journal
Lifestyles This Week
Meaford Express
Midland Penetangushene Mirror
Muskoka Sun
North Bay Nipissing News
Orillia Today
Parry Sound Beacon Star
Parry Sound North Star
The Connection
The Muskokan
The Stayner Sun
Wasaga Sun

One of the advertisers was told by a Metromedia staff person that they are "pulling the trigger on prostitution" after talks that were "sparked by bill c36".

All these workers in smaller towns are about to feel the wrath of c36 before it hits the senate.

This is very concerning to say the least.
 

Marla

Active member
Mar 29, 2010
1,563
13
38
61
ajax
This is very concerning to say the least.
I talked with my rep at NOW and he said they have no plans. I am sure they have told him to remain mum. It will take away about 30% of their revenue if not more and there will also be the concommitant loss of jobs of all of these people who were reps.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
24,007
19,404
113
I talked with my rep at NOW and he said they have no plans. I am sure they have told him to remain mum. It will take away about 30% of their revenue if not more and there will also be the concommitant loss of jobs of all of these people who were reps.
Perfect example of how twisted this bill is, sex workers will be able to advertise their services but no mainstream avenues will be available to advertise in.

In other words, ladies go underground, we don`t want to see it or hear about it!
 

Marla

Active member
Mar 29, 2010
1,563
13
38
61
ajax
Perfect example of how twisted this bill is, sex workers will be able to advertise their services but no mainstream avenues will be available to advertise in.

In other words, ladies go underground, we don`t want to see it or hear about it!
We will be able to advertise on the Back pages, The Red zone, here, and other venues that aren't based in Canada but online. Obviously no print ads.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
32,834
3,117
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
and what about police stings?
 

Marla

Active member
Mar 29, 2010
1,563
13
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ajax
and what about police stings?
that depends on whether or not you are agency or indie. If i was agency I would band together and pool my financial rescources for good lawyer, and stick together and then have the lawyer fight the constitutionality of it. If one gets busted then all fo the agencies should pool together for legal costs to bail that agency out. You need to stick together at this crucial time. just my 2 cents. You have to have legal counsel to fight it for you because it is unconstitutional. Or have a lawyer create a blueprint in which you aren't benefitting from the sale of prostitution as in a pimp. There are loopholes around it I am sure. You just need a good criminal lawyuer and that takes financial resources. between all fo the agencies pooling their money, they should be able to come up with a plan.
 

drlove

Ph.D. in Pussyology
Oct 14, 2001
4,799
153
63
The doctor is in
There is one major reason for not staying the judgment this time around. The government has already had a kick at the can at crafting legislation and they are choosing to go with a bill that they have been warned by many to be unconstitutional. So, the Court may not think that the government deserves a stay.



An appeal can always be filed on a point of law. And that point of law can simply be "the judge failed to consider the evidence..." or something like that. It's a pretty low bar.



It would be interesting to see what would happen if the NDP were in power. Suppose Boivin became the Minister of Justice. As the AG, she would become the other side to the litigation. That would be weird.
My concern is the appeal process itself. That is, even if a lower court ruled the new law unconstitutional, as you've said above, an appeal can always be filed. If that's the case, what's to stop the Cons from appealing (like they did last time) and by so doing, prolong it by dragging the matter out?
 

DigitallyYours

Off TERB indefinitely
Oct 31, 2010
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My concern is the appeal process itself. That is, even if a lower court ruled the new law unconstitutional, as you've said above, an appeal can always be filed. If that's the case, what's to stop the Cons from appealing (like they did last time) and by so doing, prolong it by dragging the matter out?
Well, that's the legal process. The applicants can also appeal and appeal again all the way to the SCC. Since both the NDP and liberals say the law is bad, if they were in power in 2016, maybe there would be political pressure not to appeal, otherwise they would seem hypocritical.
 

DigitallyYours

Off TERB indefinitely
Oct 31, 2010
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Also, the other parties don't really want to take a definitive stand on it since it's a hot potato. I saw Mulcair giving a live interview with CTV news in Halifax last week. The reporter asked Mulcair point blank what laws (if any) he and his party would bring in on prostitution if he were Prime Minister. He completely ignored the question and continued to attack the Cons, saying that they should refer it to the SCC.
The question then is whether the NDP or liberals, if elected, would refer the new law directly to the SCC for an opinion.
 

drlove

Ph.D. in Pussyology
Oct 14, 2001
4,799
153
63
The doctor is in
Well, that's the legal process. The applicants can also appeal and appeal again all the way to the SCC. Since both the NDP and liberals say the law is bad, if they were in power in 2016, maybe there would be political pressure not to appeal, otherwise they would seem hypocritical.
I'd certainly hope that would be the case. At this point, ANYTHING would be better than the Cons... I just hope we actually do get a new government this time around, as opposed to a Conservative minority or even (gasp!) another majority...
 

bobcat40

Member
Jan 25, 2006
570
10
18
I'd certainly hope that would be the case. At this point, ANYTHING would be better than the Cons... I just hope we actually do get a new government this time around, as opposed to a Conservative minority or even (gasp!) another majority...
This is the latest poll which was done a week ago

 

Fallsguy

New member
Dec 3, 2010
270
0
0
This is the latest poll which was done a week ago

This is from Threehundredeight.com and it is what is known as a sliding poll. They take multiple polls and track them over time to come up with these numbers. The Cons have been stuck at around 30% for quite some time now. They would need around 38% to get a majority, and remember Mike Duffy has yet to take the stand in his trial and that is going to be damning for the Conservatives.
 

DigitallyYours

Off TERB indefinitely
Oct 31, 2010
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http://nationalmagazine.ca/Articles/July-2014-Web/Working-for-a-living.aspx

Working for a Living

Employment law and the practical implications of legalized prostitution.

“Should Parliament decide to do nothing…” was the opening for Gwendoline Allison’s advice to Parliament.

Allison, partner at the Allison Foy Law Group, offered the House Justice Committee a ‘what if’ scenario.

"My most recent work has centred on the implications for employment-related laws, should Parliament decide to decriminalize the purchase of and profiteering from sex, or should Parliament decide to do nothing,” she told Members of Parliament. “As an employment lawyer, my consideration is a practical one.”

Allison offered virtually the only legal opinion to Parliament regarding possible alternatives to its controversial new prostitution bill – one that a stream of lawyers lined up to qualify as overbroad and arbitrary. Allison is generally supportive of the bill.

Advocates of decriminalization argue that the Nordic Model — which inspired the approach taken by the Conservative government — would endanger sex workers.

And so Allison, who represented the Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution in their intervention of the Bedford case, offered some real-world caveats on how a government would hypothetically deal with legalized prostitution.

For starters, she said, a government would need to figure out whether sex workers are independent contractors, or self-employed businesswomen or men. Where prostitution is legal in Nevada and Europe, she pointed out, women are contractors. They rent rooms from the brothel-owners, and they negotiate their own rate.

From there, Parliament — or, perhaps, the provinces and cities — would have to draw up some scheme to cover sex workers under occupational health and safety laws.

“Employees also owe duties to employers and are engaged by employers to enforce these duties: to be loyal and faithful; to act in good faith and not to the detriment of the employer,” she told the committee. “To obey the reasonable and lawful directions of the employer; to act with all due skill, care, and competence; and, not to neglect their duties. Some of those duties do not translate well into the realm of prostitution where the primary obligation of the employee in this consideration would be to provide sex to a third party directed by the employer.”

To that end, she says, there is a conflict: if consent, under the Criminal Code, cannot be given by a third party, how can an employer require their employee to have sex?

“The Criminal Code provisions raise a question regarding the legality of employment contracts with a fundamental and core duty of the employees to provide sex to the clients, to the employer,” she said.

“I would say that the current schemes, and in particular the occupational health and safety schemes, are not adequate, and human rights laws are not adequate to protect women in prostitution.”

But Canada is not without any regulation whatsoever. Several municipalities do treat sex workers as independent contractors and offer some basic oversight for their work.

Alberta is likely the most notable. The province has left the matter entirely up to their cities — Calgary and Edmonton regulate massage parlours and escort agencies, licensing and taxing those in the trade as they would any other contractor. That means police checks, training seminars, and registration numbers.

But the gap still remains. “Research shows that licensing hasn't been a help because the criminal law still stands in the way,” says Maria Powell, a Master's student at the Schulich School of Law, at Dalhousie University. She is studying the matter for her thesis. “The potential for benefits from licensing are huge - increased legitimacy, better safety and security, and it helps cities and police enforce laws on trafficking and exploitation because of improved relationships between workers and enforcement officials. Criminalization currently hinders these benefits from coming to fruition.”

In this hypothetical world, where sex workers had the power of the law behind them to fill that gap, Harris & Company partner Matthew Cooperwilliams says a whole slew of labour law options open up.

For one, it could mean that workers, if they were considered employees, could file Human Rights Code claims based on discrimination. Age, gender and racial discrimination can be pretty commonplace in the sex trade, of course, and could open up the floodgates of claims.

And that’s to say nothing of what the workers could do if they unionized.

“They could leverage the Employment Standards Act if they were employees — rather than independent contractors — by insisting on minimum wage rates, overtime pay, minimum call-out benefits …vacation pay, vacation leave and other leaves like parental leave,” he says.

The occupational health and safety requirements, too, would likely be quite game-changing for sex workers and — if Europe and New Zealand are any example — could come along with aggressive anti-STI and anti-HIV measures.

Allison, when questioned by MPs, noted that the clear way to afford sex workers the luxuries of being a state-sanctioned sector would really come along with being employees, not contractors.

“The women in prostitution are, in almost every location that I've considered so far, independent contractors, not employees, so they're not getting benefits, they're not getting EI, or CPP, or pension benefits. Not only that, but they're responsible for paying their taxes, and they're responsible for paying the contributions to any workers compensation scheme. So their protection under occupational health and safety regulations and worker's compensation depends on their participation and their payment into that too,” Allison said. “So when you consider that in the context of the most vulnerable employees, the ones who are on the street, or the ones who are operating from their homes, their protection will depend on their payment in.”

And so, she says, workers would likely take brothels to court. How the justice system, and the government, would react to that is entirely unclear.

But, it’s not all bad. As Allison notes, most exotic dancers are independent contractors — they rent the stage, and they dance for tips. That model might be workable for the sex work industry.

While Ottawa is evidently not following the decriminalization path with Bill C-36, the questions raised by how the sex trade meshes with labour law is hardly moot. Indeed, when the bill comes into effect, the act of selling sex will essentially be legal. While enterprises like brothels will not be permitted to operate, workers who stay in the industry will be permitted to be self-employed, even if all their clients are committing a crime.

What’s more, the controversial amendments have opened the door to another constitutional challenge. And so the debate surrounding the legal framework governing the selling of sex will quite possibly keep lawmakers busy in the coming years.

If sex workers eventually manage to work the labour system to their advantage, it may be worldwide precedent. Even in New Zealand, Allison notes, where sex work is legal, Parliament opted not to afford sex workers full employment rights.

If Canadian courts decide that sex workers are workers like anyone else, it could be the start of a very interesting friendship.

Justin Ling is a regular contributor based in Ottawa.
 
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