More on: Why I hate McCain
- Thread starter TOVisitor
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Well, McCain will have the same trouble in 2000. Win a state, lose a state, win AZ, lose the rest. Remember McCain has an "anger problem" says Bush Jr.'s people.DonQuixote said:
Vote Hillary, save the world.
The front-runners two years out rarely end up on the ticket but you'd have to say these two are the obvious choices for their parties. I can dream can't I.TOVisitor said:
OTB
Really it would almost be a win win.DonQuixote said:And if the improbable happens, then what?
You'd have to blame yourself for saying the
wrong prayer.
If McCain won the R machine would grind on and people would forget there was another political party.... LOL
If Hillary won the R's would be so energized by a common foe that they would forget all the difference that come from being the majority party. There might not be any Ds in Congress after 4 years of Hillary....
And you have to admit that if Hillary runs the political theater will be unrivaled, it would make Bush / Kerry look like a love fest. Every voter right of Dean would come to the polls while the left would be wondering where their anti-war candidate was.
OTB
There's always that "law of unexpected circumstance" in the Guilliani (I) coming out vs McCain vs Hillary.onthebottom said:
Vote Hillary, save the world.
Hillary ain't goin' anywhere, for many reasons. She is much too divisive.
If she does run and the media again spends time wondering the state of the relationship between her & Bill, then Guiliani's and McCain's marital woes WILL become fodder for the news media.
Once that happens, the realization that neither of them are maritally clean will become common knowledge.
If she does run and the media again spends time wondering the state of the relationship between her & Bill, then Guiliani's and McCain's marital woes WILL become fodder for the news media.
Once that happens, the realization that neither of them are maritally clean will become common knowledge.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/5/25/18822/3149
Retired General Wesley Clark, on a three-day visit to Kosovo, has called for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
The allied occupation of Kosovo, where Clark was greeted as a hero with not only flowers, but also billboards and a road being renamed for him, was planned and executed by Clark and Shinseki. It provides an interesting contrast to Iraq, where Shinseki was shut out of the planning, and in fact disparaged for his realistic assessment of what it would take to win in Iraq.
It's hard to imagine Rummy and Wolfowitz being greeted as heroes of the Iraqi people in seven years' time.
Retired General Wesley Clark, on a three-day visit to Kosovo, has called for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
The allied occupation of Kosovo, where Clark was greeted as a hero with not only flowers, but also billboards and a road being renamed for him, was planned and executed by Clark and Shinseki. It provides an interesting contrast to Iraq, where Shinseki was shut out of the planning, and in fact disparaged for his realistic assessment of what it would take to win in Iraq.
It's hard to imagine Rummy and Wolfowitz being greeted as heroes of the Iraqi people in seven years' time.
I was wondering when you would ask.DonQuixote said:
Right now, I am leaning towards Gore and Clark.
While Gore does carry some baggage, SO many people may have buyer's remorse with Bush. After all, it has been proven that Gore actually did win Florida and thus should have been President. He is right on global warming and right on the Internet.
Clark is a very decent guy who just needs more seasoning and his time in front of the Fox audience provides a degree of wingnut legitimacy to him that no other Democrat gets.
Hillary is a non-starter as far as I am concerned. The only people who seem to be really up in arms about her running are the media and the wingnuts. The media so they can discuss Bill's penis all over again, and the wingers because they want to discuss Bill's penis again and not focus on anything that actually matters.
The NYT did a hachet job on her the other day, interviewing 50 people to talk about her & Bill's marital issues, NONE of whom were quoted by name. Gee, that's good reporting. NOT!
Gore is a non-starter, you've seen his last serious election.
Clark, I'm not so sure, he ran very middle of the road against a very week group of Ds in the last election, I don't see him being able to generate any excitement, every year he spends out of the military makes him less relevant.
Edwards, again I think every year he's spent out of the Senate makes him less relevant.
My advice is look to Governors, they almost always win.
Hillary has the nomination if she wants it, TOV and all other true believers in liberalism hate the idea for three reasons, one, she's running like her husband as a moderate (remember welfare reform and defense of marriage act), two, she's pro war in Iraq and three, 51% of American's can't stand her. The only thing better for Rs than Dean running is Hillary.
My value priced free advice.
OTB
Clark, I'm not so sure, he ran very middle of the road against a very week group of Ds in the last election, I don't see him being able to generate any excitement, every year he spends out of the military makes him less relevant.
Edwards, again I think every year he's spent out of the Senate makes him less relevant.
My advice is look to Governors, they almost always win.
Hillary has the nomination if she wants it, TOV and all other true believers in liberalism hate the idea for three reasons, one, she's running like her husband as a moderate (remember welfare reform and defense of marriage act), two, she's pro war in Iraq and three, 51% of American's can't stand her. The only thing better for Rs than Dean running is Hillary.
My value priced free advice.
OTB
Imagine if Hillary became President. Political debate in America would become even classier and more high-minded than it is already. You could look forward to Pat Robertson solemnly asserting that she's possessed by demons, and holding up a photoshopped X-ray image to prove it- and this time, the party wouldn't distance itself from him.
Generally, it would probably be a good thing if the Republicans could spend a turn out of office after Bush, for if they sink into the role of the Establishment party the Left will end up revitalized in a way that will have far-reaching consequences (i.e. it will be able to plausibly position itself as the party of progress and rebellion against entrenched authority once again). At the same time, though, one hopes that the Dems will not concurrently assume control of Congress; given free rein of the State immediately after GWB, they would embark on an irrational campaign of revenge that would leave a whole lot of bad policy in its wake.
Generally, it would probably be a good thing if the Republicans could spend a turn out of office after Bush, for if they sink into the role of the Establishment party the Left will end up revitalized in a way that will have far-reaching consequences (i.e. it will be able to plausibly position itself as the party of progress and rebellion against entrenched authority once again). At the same time, though, one hopes that the Dems will not concurrently assume control of Congress; given free rein of the State immediately after GWB, they would embark on an irrational campaign of revenge that would leave a whole lot of bad policy in its wake.
Hillary will win because she will pull in parts of the South like Arkansas, New Mexico, and areas like Missouri, Tennessee who will pop for her. She'll easily pick up Pennsylvania which is turning blue and probably Virginia. She will pull in Montana. The Dakotas may swing for her after realizing the loser they put in there instead of Daschell. Colorado too with the Salazar as their new Senator.
But, how this will happen will be the same as how it was for Bill Clinton. There will be a 3rd party candidate running against the Republican platform as an Independent, like a Perot, a Forbes, a Buchanan, or maybe, just maybe, in this case a Rudolph Gulliani leaving the Republicans as an Independent Republican style moderate, splitting the vote against McCain.
Everyone will vote Hilllary, not because she's smart, but because they really want Bill Clinton back in there, even as a first lady, I mean first man and former President. Sex stories are a backburner with the Iraq war, domestic spying, Abramoff, CIA leaker-in-chief, Vegitable women, high gas prices, high oil, Ken Ley indictment as a Bush buddy (with sentencing on 9/11), "bring it on" appologies on the same day as the Kenny Boy indictment. It's over.
Clark, as great as he is, isn't Presidential. But he'd make a fantastic Secretary of Defence or Secretary of State. Gore isn't running and if he does, will lose because of his unprecendent support for Howard Dean in 2004, which ended up being a bear market loser in the polls.
Gyaos.
But, how this will happen will be the same as how it was for Bill Clinton. There will be a 3rd party candidate running against the Republican platform as an Independent, like a Perot, a Forbes, a Buchanan, or maybe, just maybe, in this case a Rudolph Gulliani leaving the Republicans as an Independent Republican style moderate, splitting the vote against McCain.
Everyone will vote Hilllary, not because she's smart, but because they really want Bill Clinton back in there, even as a first lady, I mean first man and former President. Sex stories are a backburner with the Iraq war, domestic spying, Abramoff, CIA leaker-in-chief, Vegitable women, high gas prices, high oil, Ken Ley indictment as a Bush buddy (with sentencing on 9/11), "bring it on" appologies on the same day as the Kenny Boy indictment. It's over.
Clark, as great as he is, isn't Presidential. But he'd make a fantastic Secretary of Defence or Secretary of State. Gore isn't running and if he does, will lose because of his unprecendent support for Howard Dean in 2004, which ended up being a bear market loser in the polls.
Gyaos.
snatching dah feet..
Even if you take the view that Bubba was a 'real' Democrat, the party was utterly unable to rally to his vision, and exploit and develop it politically, the way they did with Kennedy & Roosevelt, and the way the Republicans did (and continue to do) with Bonzo. They had the general horse sense in 2000 and 2004 to pick a centrist, someone with a worldview that should have been no threat to anyone who voted for, say, Bush senior. And I don't even think you could say they were unaware what the goebbelsian lie machine of Karl Rove would throw at them (though they did a pathetic job of handling it, to be sure). The problem is fundamental: the party as such, in virtually all its striopes, stands for one thing only, "I sure wish this was still 1960"..
It's likely that the Repubs will get their ass handed to them this fall, because of shrub. They may lose the White House in 2008, too, especially if they forget what happened to Bush Sr. in 1992. You can have the party utterly in thrall to savage crazies like Falwell and Robertson--but don't do it publicly, where reasonable Americans are forced to confront the fact. If the Republicans can somehow manage to keep the death-penalty-for-children-who-don't-pray-for-the-rapture-in-school crowd onside, yet pose as moderates who actually give one seventy-fifth of a damn about Americans who aren't super-rich, they have an excellent chance of keeping the White House. There are any number of strategies for McCain that would ensure this: positioning himself as a party outsider (like Carter in 76), while playing up his military responsibility (to indicate he's the man to fix the Iraq mess); positioning himself as a party insider, but reform-minded (eg, playing up McCain-Feingold, and such); even just grabbing a hot-button issue like immigration, and defining a sensible policy will do. As Kerry's moronic waffling--his response to Reichspropagandaminister Rove's attacks--showed, finding a good and clear position on issues is beyond the Democrats these days.
That's the main reason Hillary hasn't got a prayer. Even if the Repubs, idiotically, pick Jeb, he won't have to run against her, just let her run against herself: for the war, or against? deport the immigrants, or no? public health care, or no? Hillary has more dots on those maps than a kid with measles. The Party of Creation Science is screwed this fall, no doubt; but if they keep their wits about them, it needn't be more than a temporary setback, albeit likely a fierce one. They're running against a party that cannot find its ass with both hands.
MW
An interesting analysis --but unrealistic, surely, until (and unless) the Democrats make some serious strides toward redefining their values as a party. I'm of the view that the 8 years of Bubba did S.F.A. for the party. The only thing he did of any substance was to massage the economy, rather brilliantly. Everything else was either Republicanism Lite (Kosovo, other aggressive foreign policy fiascoes), Republicanism Heavy (welfare "reform"), or futile (healthcare reform).Truncador said:
Even if you take the view that Bubba was a 'real' Democrat, the party was utterly unable to rally to his vision, and exploit and develop it politically, the way they did with Kennedy & Roosevelt, and the way the Republicans did (and continue to do) with Bonzo. They had the general horse sense in 2000 and 2004 to pick a centrist, someone with a worldview that should have been no threat to anyone who voted for, say, Bush senior. And I don't even think you could say they were unaware what the goebbelsian lie machine of Karl Rove would throw at them (though they did a pathetic job of handling it, to be sure). The problem is fundamental: the party as such, in virtually all its striopes, stands for one thing only, "I sure wish this was still 1960"..
It's likely that the Repubs will get their ass handed to them this fall, because of shrub. They may lose the White House in 2008, too, especially if they forget what happened to Bush Sr. in 1992. You can have the party utterly in thrall to savage crazies like Falwell and Robertson--but don't do it publicly, where reasonable Americans are forced to confront the fact. If the Republicans can somehow manage to keep the death-penalty-for-children-who-don't-pray-for-the-rapture-in-school crowd onside, yet pose as moderates who actually give one seventy-fifth of a damn about Americans who aren't super-rich, they have an excellent chance of keeping the White House. There are any number of strategies for McCain that would ensure this: positioning himself as a party outsider (like Carter in 76), while playing up his military responsibility (to indicate he's the man to fix the Iraq mess); positioning himself as a party insider, but reform-minded (eg, playing up McCain-Feingold, and such); even just grabbing a hot-button issue like immigration, and defining a sensible policy will do. As Kerry's moronic waffling--his response to Reichspropagandaminister Rove's attacks--showed, finding a good and clear position on issues is beyond the Democrats these days.
That's the main reason Hillary hasn't got a prayer. Even if the Repubs, idiotically, pick Jeb, he won't have to run against her, just let her run against herself: for the war, or against? deport the immigrants, or no? public health care, or no? Hillary has more dots on those maps than a kid with measles. The Party of Creation Science is screwed this fall, no doubt; but if they keep their wits about them, it needn't be more than a temporary setback, albeit likely a fierce one. They're running against a party that cannot find its ass with both hands.
MW
