More Miller Knee Jerks
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There are bans on certain knives in Canada:Sheik said:
As of right now the main restrictions on the types of knives in Canada are listed in Section III of Bill C68
"prohibited weapon" means
(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife
This bans switchblades and knives that you can flip open ie. swinging/snapping the knife in a circular motion.
Note one handed opening via holes in the blade, disks, studs etc., are not illegal.
I think, with all respect, that you are overstating the concept of the bans on knives.Sheik said:
I believe the ban regards "wearing" knives over a certain lenght on the street,
not using a knife in a kitchen or steakhouse.
I don't see any problem preventing teenagers carrying 12 inch knives in the mall.
Perhaps cause white is not considered a colour or a raceSheik said:
There are obviously a wide range of issues that are creating the problems in specific communities...we need to be able to identify these communities and deal with the range of these problems to look for a solution. However, this is not the same as identifying criminals by colour or race...which is a statement of fact; if they have been caught or a narrowing of the field of search based on film or witness reports if they haven't been caught. I think the NDP types confuse this issue in there effort to be non-offensive...
danmand said:
Pardon me , but it is not overstating the concept.
Once the limp weenie euro do gooder notion of a ban on something starts it takes on a life of its own as the state gains yet another advantage over us.
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I believe that handgun bans have been effective in all the countries whereSheik said:
they are in effect, except in the US. Most european countries have few handguns in private hands.
With the easy access to handguns from the US, the ban is much less effective in Canada than in Europe,
but I believe there would be many more handguns in Canada, if they were not banned.
It seems that all police chiefs repeatedly call for stricter bans on guns.
Sorry, if I was unclear. I meant of course not prohibition, but strict regulation.Sheik said:
Norway, Sweden and Denmark for that matter have large amounts of private
guns approved for hunting, but strictly registered.
When my uncle in Denmark, who a dozen guns, died, the police showed up
the next day and took his guns to the police station.
It is extremely difficult to get permission for a handgun in Scandinavia.
danmand said:
Scandinavia, by and large, does not have the population demographics that we have here.
Handgun deaths in the UK were not so much of a problem 60 years ago.
.
Seen this in todays Star...
The mayors of Montreal and Halifax have gotten behind Mayor David Miller's push for a national handgun ban.
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/433920
But Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion, also here for the big-city mayors meeting – part of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities (FCM) annual conference – voiced some trepidation about the proposed ban.
"You can ban handguns, but that won't eliminate guns. People who want to get them will get them,'' she said.
What people don't get is this is how things land up snowballing in to laws that get abused by the police-which is why I brought up the 'stunt driving law" At first it sounded good but then somebody loses their car and drivers license for squealing their tires--and if the cops are taking hundreds of cars every week, its for more that driving 50 km/h over the limit. Its has to be for minor infractions as well.
I see nothing wrong with Toronto gun laws as they are right now. There should be more done to help young people stay out of trouble-open more youth centers, get more social workers that can talk to these "punks" before they hurt somebody. That might not be the answer but it do more good than closing the few gun ranges in Toronto were people can have some fun and not bother anybody.
Now I see the mayor wants to remove a portion of the Gardiner Expressway to make the riverfront better--like traffic isn't bad enough as it is now. Its stop and go every time I come in on the Gardiner, where the heck is all that traffic be moved to? Makes no sense to knock down a good freeway and then spend more money to make the roads bigger to flow more traffic.
The mayors of Montreal and Halifax have gotten behind Mayor David Miller's push for a national handgun ban.
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/433920
But Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion, also here for the big-city mayors meeting – part of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities (FCM) annual conference – voiced some trepidation about the proposed ban.
"You can ban handguns, but that won't eliminate guns. People who want to get them will get them,'' she said.
What people don't get is this is how things land up snowballing in to laws that get abused by the police-which is why I brought up the 'stunt driving law" At first it sounded good but then somebody loses their car and drivers license for squealing their tires--and if the cops are taking hundreds of cars every week, its for more that driving 50 km/h over the limit. Its has to be for minor infractions as well.
I see nothing wrong with Toronto gun laws as they are right now. There should be more done to help young people stay out of trouble-open more youth centers, get more social workers that can talk to these "punks" before they hurt somebody. That might not be the answer but it do more good than closing the few gun ranges in Toronto were people can have some fun and not bother anybody.
Now I see the mayor wants to remove a portion of the Gardiner Expressway to make the riverfront better--like traffic isn't bad enough as it is now. Its stop and go every time I come in on the Gardiner, where the heck is all that traffic be moved to? Makes no sense to knock down a good freeway and then spend more money to make the roads bigger to flow more traffic.
I was thinking along similar lines. Right now, I suspect that the illegal gun market it limited to organized crime (e.g. gangs). I doubt if most individuals denied a legal permit would have any idea as to how to get an illegal gun. I know of no TERB equivalent for illegal firearms. If they try a ban, I am sure that a market will evolve for the many otherwise law abiding people that would not otherwise need such a market. Once such a market evolves, those individuals that should not have firearms, would not have been able to get a permit and had not access to organized crime, may be able to buy them. I can see the very real possibility of gun crime actually increasing. Perhaps this is what happened in the UK when they banned handguns and gun crime increased.Sheik said:
Most handguns were once legally owned...
I'm not convinced Miller's ban on GTA gun clubs etc would make much of a difference. But more stingent controls (or an outright ban) on handgun ownership would probably save a few lives each year. This MacLeans article tries to estimate how many of Canada's crime handguns were once legally registered and subsequently used in a crime by the registered owner or were stolen before they were used to shoot someone. The numbers are all over the map but it seems quite possible that 20% to 40% of these crimes are committed using handguns that were once registered locally.
It seems to me that target shooting types could safely own handguns if they had to be permanently stored under very strict security at the shooting range. Collectors could also use these storage facilites. That would remove the chances of handguns being stolen from homes or offices and eliminate the necessity of people driving back and forth with guns in their cars. The problem isn't so much about registered owners shooting people. It's about owners having their guns stolen - especially collectors with dozens of handguns kept in their homes. I don't know which level of government has this jurisdiction but Miller should be going after either McGuinty or Harper to tighten up the regulations associated with storing and transporting handguns. Not a perfect solution but at least it addresses the real problem.
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20080418_173830_6692
..."But to get a complete picture of the handgun problem and the solution, policymakers need to know how many so-called "crime guns" were once legally owned and how many were smuggled from the U.S. They're pretty much out of luck. In 2005, Miller claimed that "about half" of the crime guns in Toronto were stolen. It turned out that was just a very rough estimate based on anecdotal evidence from police officers. These days, the mayor claims "one third to forty per cent of the handguns used in crime in Toronto are from domestic sources"—also a very rough estimate, a Toronto Police Service spokesman confirms. In 2002, the RCMP's National Weapons Enforcement Support found that fully 94 per cent of guns seized in Vancouver had originated in Washington State, suggesting huge regional differences in the sources of handguns. But neither NWEST nor any other branch of the RCMP has more up-to-date figures. Municipal police forces in Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg and Montreal were also at a loss. "We don't speculate on those kind of numbers," Montreal Police Service spokesperson Mélanie Lajoie told Macleans.ca. "We base the numbers we give out on facts and statistics."
Because so many firearms are deliberately rendered untraceable by criminals, we don't even know how many lives Miller's ban might save. According to Statistics Canada figures, 108 handguns were used in a homicide in Canada in 2006 and only 35 were recovered. Of those, the ownership status could only be determined for 20, 12 of which, or 60 per cent, had been reported stolen—much higher than Miller's estimate of a third. If the truth lies somewhere in between, it suggests that a handgun ban had the potential to save between 30 and 65 Canadian lives in 2006—that is, as long as the assailants didn't get their hands on a smuggled gun instead."...
I'm not convinced Miller's ban on GTA gun clubs etc would make much of a difference. But more stingent controls (or an outright ban) on handgun ownership would probably save a few lives each year. This MacLeans article tries to estimate how many of Canada's crime handguns were once legally registered and subsequently used in a crime by the registered owner or were stolen before they were used to shoot someone. The numbers are all over the map but it seems quite possible that 20% to 40% of these crimes are committed using handguns that were once registered locally.
It seems to me that target shooting types could safely own handguns if they had to be permanently stored under very strict security at the shooting range. Collectors could also use these storage facilites. That would remove the chances of handguns being stolen from homes or offices and eliminate the necessity of people driving back and forth with guns in their cars. The problem isn't so much about registered owners shooting people. It's about owners having their guns stolen - especially collectors with dozens of handguns kept in their homes. I don't know which level of government has this jurisdiction but Miller should be going after either McGuinty or Harper to tighten up the regulations associated with storing and transporting handguns. Not a perfect solution but at least it addresses the real problem.
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20080418_173830_6692
..."But to get a complete picture of the handgun problem and the solution, policymakers need to know how many so-called "crime guns" were once legally owned and how many were smuggled from the U.S. They're pretty much out of luck. In 2005, Miller claimed that "about half" of the crime guns in Toronto were stolen. It turned out that was just a very rough estimate based on anecdotal evidence from police officers. These days, the mayor claims "one third to forty per cent of the handguns used in crime in Toronto are from domestic sources"—also a very rough estimate, a Toronto Police Service spokesman confirms. In 2002, the RCMP's National Weapons Enforcement Support found that fully 94 per cent of guns seized in Vancouver had originated in Washington State, suggesting huge regional differences in the sources of handguns. But neither NWEST nor any other branch of the RCMP has more up-to-date figures. Municipal police forces in Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg and Montreal were also at a loss. "We don't speculate on those kind of numbers," Montreal Police Service spokesperson Mélanie Lajoie told Macleans.ca. "We base the numbers we give out on facts and statistics."
Because so many firearms are deliberately rendered untraceable by criminals, we don't even know how many lives Miller's ban might save. According to Statistics Canada figures, 108 handguns were used in a homicide in Canada in 2006 and only 35 were recovered. Of those, the ownership status could only be determined for 20, 12 of which, or 60 per cent, had been reported stolen—much higher than Miller's estimate of a third. If the truth lies somewhere in between, it suggests that a handgun ban had the potential to save between 30 and 65 Canadian lives in 2006—that is, as long as the assailants didn't get their hands on a smuggled gun instead."...
slowpoke said:
Thats a good idea....
I like to know how many guns that are report stolen were traded for drugs, money, etc. Seems like a lot guns are stolen, hmm.
If the guns were only to be kept at a few places under strict control, then no guns would fell in to the wrong hands. Shootings like at the Bras Rail would be prevent too.
If guns are safety store, I would be in favor of allowing MORE people to use shooting ranges. Maybe have gun rentals avaible too. These "punks" might enjoy target shooting and be off their dope for a while.
Only drawback is they could be come a better shot but its not hard to shoot somebody up close anyways.
But thats for owning rifles Sheik, not handguns.Sheik said:
Granted rifles can still kill but are much harder to conceal
Handguns throughout Europe are strictly 'Verboten'
What the Canadian govt neds to do is lock these little shits up that running around with guns shooting people. Its that simple!!
And I mean automatic 10 year prison term, no if, ands or buts
When you consider how many innocent people get whacked by stray bullets, I'm all for these gang bangers learning how to shoot as accurately as possible. I could care less if they kill each other - more power to them. It is the people caught in the crossfire I'm worried about.S.C. Joe said:
But at least in the USA, most of the mass shootings that have happen the past few years have been done by guys with no record. So how is a automatic 10 year prison term going to help. Those guys all kill them self afterwards.
Seems like strong laws didn't stop shootings here in the USA. Going back like in the 50's when the laws were weaker, there was less shootings.
These punks today don't care about nothing. Somehow that needs to change.
Seems like strong laws didn't stop shootings here in the USA. Going back like in the 50's when the laws were weaker, there was less shootings.
These punks today don't care about nothing. Somehow that needs to change.
Originally Posted by Sheik
Really? Lets see some statistics on that danmand... norway.... highest gun ownership, next to no crime involving guns.... switzerland.... same thing
Well then we should find out why over there everybody CARES about everybody. Humans are humans, why is it in some country's they don't have a problem with guns? Must have something to do with how everybody feels towards others.
I never visited any of those country's, I wounder why over there people must treat everybody like family.
Really? Lets see some statistics on that danmand... norway.... highest gun ownership, next to no crime involving guns.... switzerland.... same thing
Well then we should find out why over there everybody CARES about everybody. Humans are humans, why is it in some country's they don't have a problem with guns? Must have something to do with how everybody feels towards others.
I never visited any of those country's, I wounder why over there people must treat everybody like family.
England has had a major uptick in firearms violence since they banned all firearms after the Scotish school shooting.danmand said:
