Man with knife on streetcar at Dundas and Grace, shot by police

[lynxguru]

Seems very over the top for someone with a knife IMHO. The guy was in a confined area, a bunch of cops outside... lots of other options like pepper spray or tazer..and they pump a bunch of rounds into the guy. Seriously WTF.. these guys seem too anxious to kill someone.

Police bandits

 

[basketcase]

Are u serious?!
Dude did nothing ...did not motion toward them at all...even if he did, it was just the sway of a drunk,...

Wow, I am amazed at how some people know exactly what was going on. I guess mojak is the medical examiner and has watched the streetcar's security cam.



p.s. Watching the video, he did clearly step towards them just before being shot.

 

[Rockslinger]

I think the charge was later reduced or dropped.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/02/23/toronto-police.html

 

[Cnd-Guy]

p.s. Watching the video, he did clearly step towards them just before being shot.

Big deal, the kid was in a streetcar

Even if he did " step toward them " he was still in the street car .

They could have shot him in the knees or threw tear gas on the streetcar or wait it out until morning when the kid got tired

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Anyone defending police officers on this one are fools

I'm not defending anyone yet. Just throwing different possible scenarios out there.

Like basketcase said, lets wait for CCTV streetcar video to come out

 

[exceed]

Big deal, the kid was in a streetcar

Even if he did " step toward them " he was still in the street car .

They could have shot him in the knees or threw tear gas on the streetcar or wait it out until morning when the kid got tired

What if..... the suspect throw a knife towards the officer like house of flying daggers? You'll never know how intense it was unless you are present at the scene

 

[mynameisearl11]

The incident reminded me of similar cases which involved polices shooting down armed/unarmed individual in the past. They shot a black kid with mental problems in the back (according to witnesses) while he tried to catch a TTC bus. Recently, a patient walked out of East General with a knife on his hands. Police shot him when he 'lunged" at them with the knife. The point here is that the police will shoot to kill if somehow they interpreted that you are DISOBEYING their ORDERS.
Just like previous cases the cops will get off cleaned from this latest incident. Polices are trained in a way that THEY'RE THE ONLY ONE TO GO HOME WITH THEIR FAMILIES if conflicts happened on the street. If you were a cop and faced a split second decision, who would you rather see to go home with after the incident? You,right?
The funny thing is that if a cop has decided to use hands combat to subdue the guy,he/she would be fired the next day. Unnecessary actions to put cops lives in danger are not recommended.
Its a sad fact but as long as cops are allowed to carrying guns incidents like this will happen more often than we like.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Blair says we'll have answers soon: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ronto-streetcar-shooting-video-questions.html

Toronto police chief promises answers after streetcar killing

Toronto police Chief Bill Blair says people "have every right to be concerned" after an 18-year-old man armed with a knife on a downtown streetcar was shot repeatedly and killed by police this weekend — an incident captured by amateur video.

Blair said he had seen the video, which has been posted online.

"I am very aware that the public is very concerned about this tragic event," he said told media in a prepared statement. "They have every right to be concerned."

Witnesses say Sammy Yatim was alone on the 505 Dundas streetcar near Trinity Bellwoods Park when he was shot just after midnight Saturday morning. He had pulled a knife and ordered everybody off the streetcar, witnesses say.

The video shows the stopped streetcar at a distance, with multiple police officers nearby, at least one with his hands raised to shoulder height.

Nine gunshots are heard within 13 seconds.

Blair said he knows the public has many questions after seeing the video. "I am also seeking answers to those important questions."

The chief said he has asked deputy chief Mike Federico to reach out to the family.

"As a father, I can only image their terrible grief and their need for answers," Blair said.

Blair did not take questions, noting that he is forbidden by law to interfere with the investigation of Ontario's police watchdog, the Special Investigations Unit.

The SIU has begun an investigation of the incident as it must under provincial law.

The chief said there will also be an internal investigation.

The Ontario ombudsman also said in a tweet Monday that his office will be "reviewing" the shooting on Tuesday.

Ross McLean, a security expert and former Toronto police officer, studied a version of the video with enhanced video and audio, frame by frame.

He said it raises serious questions about how police handled the confrontation.

On the enhanced video, a six-second jolt from a Taser can be heard after the gunshots, McLean said. Yatim also appears to put his hands over his head at one point on the enhanced video, he said.


McLean says if the officers had waited another minute for the officer with the Taser to arrive instead of opening fire, Yatim might be alive today. "Should you be Tasering someone who’s been shot six or nine times and lying on the ground?” he told CBC News.

McLean says the video also suggests police did not engage the suspect.

"Your mouth is your best weapon," he said.

The key is to communicate with and contain the suspect, he said.

"He was fairly contained. He was in the streetcar. He could have let that guy sit there all night."

Police can be heard on the enhanced video saying "Drop the knife!" and "If you take one step in this direction, you’re finished," McLean told CBC host Matt Galloway on Toronto's morning radio program Metro Morning.

McLean said it's unlikely that any of the nine shots were warning shots.

"This officer’s going to have to explain why he used the level of force he did," McLean said.
Vigil today

A vigil for Yatim has been planned for 5 p.m. today at Yonge-Dundas Square in downtown Toronto.

The family, which moved to Toronto from Syria about five years ago, is hiring a lawyer and wonders how police could shoot him multiple times even after it appears he went down.

His sister, Sarah, said her family is in shock.

Yatim's friends have posted their condolences for the recent high school graduate on social media, and Sarah has started a Facebook group that she hopes will help stop what she considers an injustice at the hands of police

 

[oil&gas]

A shield and a rod are all it takes to overcome the guy. Unfortunately such
equipments don't always come in handy.

This is not to defend the police's action. But who in their right mind would feel
sympathetic towards a guy who charged at the police with a lethal weapon
calling them fxxking pussy.

 

[Cnd-Guy]

This is not to defend the police's action. But who in their right mind would feel
sympathetic towards a guy who charged at the police with a lethal weapon
calling them fxxking pussy.

lol..............charged at the police ?

"He was fairly contained. He was in the streetcar. He could have let that guy sit there all night."

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

"He was fairly contained. He was in the streetcar. He could have let that guy sit there all night."

And how were police supposed to know there were no other hostages at back of the bus??

 

[Questor]

I support the police, they are far too often and easily maligned. But if it turns out that the deceased was alone in the streetcar and was shot from the street then the cop will likely (and properly) be charged. Three shots while he was standing and six more after he fell? At least we have been spared the added outrage if the kid had been black. That would likely have been on CNN.

Well, I am more thankful that the Toronto black community has been spared the trauma of another police shooting. I think its considerably less important whether it makes CNN and you have to watch it.

And how were police supposed to know there were no other hostages at back of the bus??

Ummmm.....walk in the back door and look?

 

[red]

very strange incident. hopefully the ttc video is available soon and is helpful.


the pause after the first three shots and the post shooting tasering seems very odd.

 

[Cnd-Guy]

And how were police supposed to know there were no other hostages at back of the bus??

Look in the window or back door, make sure no on else is on the street car and then let the kid sit there all night until he got tired

I understand no one should be waving a knife in a public place but there had to be a better way to resolve this than shooting the kid 9 times.

Shoot him in the knee's, have a cop go in through the back door , talk to him ........

 

[IM469]

And how were police supposed to know there were no other hostages at back of the bus??

1) He had ordered everyone off the bus at knife point.
2) (from the video) there was a policeman at the backdoor
3) He was at the front of the bus - not the back. (He would have to turn and run the length of the bus to get his hostage)
4) If he had a 'hostage' - why didn't he have him/her with him during the confrontation ?

I saw the video and was appalled how trigger happy the cops seemed to be. I remember how the Manitoba cops had a man trapped inside a bus who had beheaded a fellow passenger and was eating parts of him as he wandered back and forth the bus yet they waited him out and took him alive. This is an 18 year old who did not attack anyone when he had the chance and was trapped in the streetcar. Instead of a taser (used after they shot him) or pepper spray - they fire 9 shots ???

If a cop is in serious danger - than I agree to lethal force but this clearly not what occurred. I believe this is what will happen if you arm cowards. There is something wrong with police training if under the slightest provocation - they come out with a blaze of gun fire.

 

[cunning linguist]

Big deal, the kid was in a streetcar

Even if he did " step toward them " he was still in the street car .

They could have shot him in the knees or threw tear gas on the streetcar or wait it out until morning when the kid got tired

This isn't Hollywood, police aren't trained to shoot someone in the leg. A shot like that is very difficult, poses way too much risk for collateral damage and can still kill someone (femoral artery, remember high school biology). Police are trained to shoot centre mass and fire as many rounds as necessary to stop the threat.

 

[lovelatinas]

Toronto's finest = SHAME!!!!

 

[groggy]

And how were police supposed to know there were no other hostages at back of the bus??

TTC confirmed there was nobody else on the streetcar.
The video shows one cop entering the rear doors and nobody else on board.

 

[fuji]

They could have shot him in the knees or threw tear gas on the streetcar or wait it out until morning when the kid got tired

There are a couple of good reasons why police don't shoot the guy in the leg.

First, police aren't marksmen. They shoot you in the chest and they are lucky if they actually hit you. My guess is they fired so many shots because they missed or just grazed him until the final few rounds. Don't assume all those rounds were actually hitting him, or that they were hitting him anywhere that would put him down.

Second, either the guy is a threat or he isn't. If he is a threat shooting him in the legs might not stop him and he might kill someone. If he is a threat he needs to go down. Is he is not a threat then he shouldn't be shot at at all.

 

[mojak]

This isn't Hollywood, police aren't trained to shoot someone in the leg. A shot like that is very difficult, poses way too much risk for collateral damage and can still kill someone (femoral artery, remember high school biology). Police are trained to shoot centre mass and fire as many rounds as necessary to stop the threat.

Then TAZE him for good measure.
He could have been a zombie! WTF?! Listening to AM640 all morning....found out that they tazed his lifeless body after filling him full of hot lead.
That's priceless! Are we in Canada, or the U.S.?!