In what way am I retarded? Was the kid a threat to anyone really? He was isolated in a streetcar. Just lock the doors and wait for the special force team to arrive and knock him unconscious with a shock grenade.
Man with knife on streetcar at Dundas and Grace, shot by police
- Thread starter Shrugged
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What facts are you referring to? There were 23 heavily armed police officers against one kid with a knife trapped inside a streetcar. Am I missing anything?Innocent??? Are you retarded or did you just skip the facts?
How exactly were they risking their lives??? 20 of them didn't even bother pulling their guns out. Have you seen the actual video? It was an execution by a single unstable individual who should spend the rest of his days in prison.I hope this gives all the cops bashers out there some food for thought. If the kid had just dropped the knife he'd be alive. In my mind he did "suicide by cop". He'd been kicked out of his house for drug use and apparently was on the streets. Didn't see a way out and got himself whacked. Quit blaming the police for doing their job. And why on earth they should be asked to risk their lives further...just by putting on that uniform everyday puts them at risk.
This has been the hot topic of the week ! I have seen 2 videos and yes 9 shot were fired. My question is, did all 9 shots hit him ? Could this clown(cop) have been a bad shot ? Did all 9 bullets hit the intended target ?
I'm on the fence with this one, all I have read was how wonderful this kid was. He was known to police, the photos they are showing on the TV are when he was much younger, he had a criminal recorder. Still not a reason to unload 9 shot into him. But at least say that this kid wasn't an angel.
I have been a supporter of the police but when 1 bad apple does something like this, it is just stupid and upsetting. The "kid" had a knife, there were multiple cops on scene, the back of the street car was open, no other passengers on the street car. They could have taser'd him or approached from the back and front to control the situation. This one is going to be a lesson learned for them for sure.
It is sad that a life was lost, I do not wish that upon anyone but do not make this kid out to be a saint.
This cop, well, lets just hope justice is served properly and he is charged with due process. His life is over as a police officer and his family life is ruined forever, but he is alive.
Could they have handled the situation differently, yes. Why wasn't the Sargent in control of his officers ? The platoon commander should be held accountable as well.
My $0.02 worth, not much value just my opinion.
I'm on the fence with this one, all I have read was how wonderful this kid was. He was known to police, the photos they are showing on the TV are when he was much younger, he had a criminal recorder. Still not a reason to unload 9 shot into him. But at least say that this kid wasn't an angel.
I have been a supporter of the police but when 1 bad apple does something like this, it is just stupid and upsetting. The "kid" had a knife, there were multiple cops on scene, the back of the street car was open, no other passengers on the street car. They could have taser'd him or approached from the back and front to control the situation. This one is going to be a lesson learned for them for sure.
It is sad that a life was lost, I do not wish that upon anyone but do not make this kid out to be a saint.
This cop, well, lets just hope justice is served properly and he is charged with due process. His life is over as a police officer and his family life is ruined forever, but he is alive.
Could they have handled the situation differently, yes. Why wasn't the Sargent in control of his officers ? The platoon commander should be held accountable as well.
My $0.02 worth, not much value just my opinion.
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The police responded on mass because there was a guy on a bus with a knife threatening people. What could possibly be more important than that? The police did not know if people were being cut up or killed, or what the situation was when they were responding. In these types of situations the cops are expected to respond and rush into the situation, not sit back and think about it.Also, since when does it require 23 police officers to deal with a situation like this? Don't they have other more pressing issues to deal with? Only 3 of them were pointing guns at the kid from what it looks like on the video. That makes me think that 20 sane people didn't see the situation as dangerous. If they all had the same training, why did those 20 think differently? Sleep on that.
The police would not want to lock the guy on the bus if they thought, or did not know if someone else was trapped on the bus, maybe hiding under a seat, maybe bleeding out. You can hear the cops in the video asking if anyone else was on the bus, they could not know for sure. If you were the cop, and felt someone might be hiding on the bus, maybe bleeding out, would you drag the situation out negotiating, or bring it to a quick conclusion?
How bad of a shooter do you need to be in order to not hit the target from 5 metres (at the most) away??? That crazy motherfucker just killed the kid in cold blood. I bet the only reason he's "devastated" is that there's that video of him doing that. Rot in prison, psycho.
This has been the hot topic of the week ! I have seen 2 videos and yes 9 shot were fired. My question is, did all 9 shots hit him ? Could this clown(cop) have been a bad shot ? Did all 9 bullets hit the intended target ?
I'm on the fence with this one, all I have read was how wonderful this kid was. He was known to police, the photos they are showing on the TV are when he was much younger, he had a criminal recorder. Still not a reason to unload 9 shot into him. But at least say that this kid wasn't an angel.
I have been a supporter of the police but when 1 bad apple does something like this, it is just stupid and upsetting. The "kid" had a knife, there were multiple cops on scene, the back of the street car was open, no other passengers on the street car. They could have taser'd him or approached from the back and front to control the situation. This one is going to be a lesson learned for them for sure.
It is sad that a life was lost, I do not wish that upon anyone but do not make this kid out to be a saint.
This cop, well, lets just hope justice is served properly and he is charged with due process. His life is over as a police officer and his family life is ruined forever, but he is alive.
Could they have handled the situation differently, yes. Why wasn't the Sargent in control of his officers ? The platoon commander should be held accountable as well.
My $0.02 worth, not much value just my opinion.
The mobile phone video had audio so 100% certain. You can hear them. There is a six second pause between the first three and the last six. During that pause somebody yells drop the knife, the shooter changes his aim from up at chest level to down on the floor, and then resumes firing.How certain are you about the timing of the shots? My understanding was (simplistically) that a reporter had used software to try to match auditory recordings with different visual recordings and then made conclusions about the timing of the shots.
Absolutely. Which is why the pause and change of aim are significant. He stopped to adjust to Yatim being down.To get anywhere near administrative discipline, won't SIU have to be convinced that the officer had plenty of time before firing the second set of rounds to determine that Yatim was thoroughly incapacitated by his first three rounds?
Note that this isn't a war. The good standard isn't incapacitated, but rather no longer a threat.
Yeah totally. We cannot see his upper body. What we can see is that he is down because his legs are visible on the ground, so he is off his feet.Writhing in pain is, of course, an assumption on your part. I have not seen the store video, but I don't believe it has audio.
Seems to me that there is no cause for further shots unless he both gets back on his feet and also still holding the knife.
We cannot see his upper body but his legs don't seem to be in any position to launch a sudden attack. They are on the floor feet towards the shooter. There is ttc video that is not public the presumably shows him clearly.Is there no chance that Yatim was in shock (rather than in immediate pain) and was yelling threats and appeared to be trying to get back up? Is there any audio of the police demanding "stay down" or "drop the knife" or something similar?
There is audio of the police continuing to yell drop the knife but even if he was still holding it and even if he was making threats I just cannot see how he was a threat lying on the floor with officers twenty feet away.
I can see resuming fire if he got back up, but from what I can see, he didn't.
He certainly wasn't innocent. Had he lived he would have faced a number of criminal charges. Obviously none of which carry a death penalty.In what way am I retarded? Was the kid a threat to anyone really? He was isolated in a streetcar. Just lock the doors and wait for the special force team to arrive and knock him unconscious with a shock grenade.
Okay, what I meant by 'innocent' was 'not deserving death penalty on the spot'. I hope this helps. It was certainly not up to James WhateverTheFuckHisLastNameIs to decide.He certainly wasn't innocent. Had he lived he would have faced a number of criminal charges. Obviously none of which carry a death penalty.
Let's see. 23 guys with guns, one guy with a knife inside of a streetcar, two doors wide open. Why not try using your army to enter from both sides and bring the guy down with a taser? No matter what anyone says, they effed up big time and there's no excuse for killing the kid.The police responded on mass because there was a guy on a bus with a knife threatening people. What could possibly be more important than that? The police did not know if people were being cut up or killed, or what the situation was when they were responding. In these types of situations the cops are expected to respond and rush into the situation, not sit back and think about it.
The police would not want to lock the guy on the bus if they thought, or did not know if someone else was trapped on the bus, maybe hiding under a seat, maybe bleeding out. You can hear the cops in the video asking if anyone else was on the bus, they could not know for sure. If you were the cop, and felt someone might be hiding on the bus, maybe bleeding out, would you drag the situation out negotiating, or bring it to a quick conclusion?
In the crowed confines of the streetcar, not as easy as you wold like to think. The large number of cops could be a problem, not an asset. You watch too much hollywood. They also didn't know that he only had a knife, just that a passenger had been in juried.Let's see. 23 guys with guns, one guy with a knife inside of a streetcar, two doors wide open. Why not try using your army to enter from both sides and bring the guy down with a taser? No matter what anyone says, they effed up big time and there's no excuse for killing the kid.
What are you talking about? Hollywood really, give me a break will you? They are supposed to be trained at that kind of thing. If they are not, they should have called for help of more competent people with better and less harmful weapons. I'm not saying all 23 should have gone in. Just stating that there were options. Also, have you seen an empty streetcar? How on earth can it be crowded?In the crowed confines of the streetcar, not as easy as you wold like to think. The large number of cops could be a problem, not an asset. You watch too much hollywood.
Yeah, not quite sure what you would put in front of a street car door to block him in since the door is about 6 feet tall? Can't exactly put up a barbed-wire fence or a brick wall in his path.Lol .. yea good idea Cnd-Guy .. let the cops stand in front of the door where the guy is holding the knife and make sure he doesn't get out to harm other people.... read that sentence again and please edit ..
Let's see. 23 guys with guns, one guy with a knife inside of a streetcar, two doors wide open. Why not try using your army to enter from both sides and bring the guy down with a taser? No matter what anyone says, they effed up big time and there's no excuse for killing the kid.
Don’t think there was a tazer at the scene until after the shooting. The police might not have known when someone with a tazer was going to show up. Not knowing if some young girl is bleeding out on the floor of the bus, how long would you sit back and wait?
So you really expect the cops to go straight in at a guy with a knife and get into a wrestling match with him in a closed in space. Really? Not knowing if the guy is some kind of fighting expert.
Police are not trained to be expert shots, or expert MMA fighters, and they don’t know what the abilities are of the guy threatening them with the knife.
Actually, it could have been worse in the subway because there are no easily accessible exits when you're in the tunnel. Guess I'll be looking for the emergency exits the next time I'm on the subway and look for the non-existent safety instructions.this is why we should build subways and get rid of streetcars.
23 people and no taser? And you suggested a few posts above that they responded on mass because they knew what the situation was and came in huge numbers because nothing could be more important, right? Didn't they know they might need a taser for that kind of thing? That's why I said that they should have called for more qualified help instead of just shooting the guy. Why can't you consider ALL the facts before forming an opinion?Don’t think there was a tazer at the scene until after the shooting. The police might not have known when someone with a tazer was going to show up. Not knowing if some young girl is bleeding out on the floor of the bus, how long would you sit back and wait?
So you really expect the cops to go straight in at a guy with a knife and get into a wrestling match with him in a closed in space. Really? Not knowing if the guy is some kind of fighting expert.
Police are not trained to be expert shots, or expert MMA fighters, and they don’t know what the abilities are of the guy threatening them with the knife.
While you're at it, we might want to review all the various security people like armoured car guards that carry guns. They have even less training than the TPS.I said duty officers shouldn't carry. Senior officers should. That is different than saying that they should not be armed.
I also don't recall ever supporting civilian concealed carry. I support private ownership of firearms for target shooting and hunting.
Saw an interesting documentary today that had a training officer say RCMP cadets have to have 60+ hours of weapons training to qualify.While you're at it, we might want to review all the various security people like armoured car guards that carry guns. They have even less training than the TPS.
Do you guys know that the streetcar doors can be locked from the outside with the key that that TTC driver probably had on him?Yeah, not quite sure what you would put in front of a street car door to block him in since the door is about 6 feet tall? Can't exactly put up a barbed-wire fence or a brick wall in his path.
and there was a guy in the streetcar stressed and armed with who knows what, possibility a firearm. You walk up and close and lock the door, I know the driver won't.Do you guys know that the streetcar doors can be locked from the outside with the key that that TTC driver probably had on him?
