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let's save energy

doubledown

who said 'surrender'?
Aug 20, 2003
871
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0
tdot
I've just switched over most of my incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescent bulbs and figured that I will save over 1300 kw/hr per year in energy costs. At a conservative estimate of $0.10 per kw/hr, that's a saving of $130. per year. 6 dances and a drink. Or 1 mp session.
How is that you may ask? Let me count the ways.
I replaced 30 bulbs of varying wattage, from 40 to 100. A compact fluorescent bulb (cf) that provides the same lumens (light, dummy) as a 40 watt incandescent uses 9 watts. The other 31 watts is wasted energy and is mostly converted to heat. For a 100 watt bulb, a 23 watt cf produces more light, the 77 watts again is lost as heat. So in total, I replaced 1940 watts of incandescent bulbs with 449 watts of cf, for a saving of 1491 watts with no loss in lumens. At an average daily usage of 2.4 hours for each bulb times 365 days times 1491 watts, the savings is 1306116 w/hr or 1306 kwh.
In the summer, it will also reduce the heat generated by these lights, which should reduce my air-con costs. And I'm being a good corporate citizen.
 

Dong Joe

sure, climb on
Nov 16, 2003
223
0
16
London
Good for you! Now you can enjoy the headaches and eyestrain from being exposed to flashing light! I hope it was worth the money.

DJ
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,649
0
0
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
Let's all just live somewhere that we don't have to either heat or cool 11.5 months a year.

OTB
 

Pallydin

missing 400 or so
Jan 27, 2002
541
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Dong Joe said:
Good for you! Now you can enjoy the headaches and eyestrain from being exposed to flashing light! I hope it was worth the money.
For those who are unaware, both incandescent and fluorescent bulbs can radiate a "flicker" effect as normal bulbs running on alternating current must turn off and on as the current changes. The flicker of fluorescent bulbs is non-existent at peak performance and only occurs once the bulb degrades, at which point it is noticable and can be corrected through changing the bulb.

PAL
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,379
8
38
The Keebler Factory
I've been thinking about doing this for a while now. How much do the bulbs cost?

And on a side note, rising electricity costs and the prov liberals' plan to install meters in every home will provide the necessary incentive to get many of us to conserve. I might not approve of all the liberals' policies, but linking individual energy use to the costs one pays sounds like a damn good idea to me!
 
Pallydin...Ah almost...Incandesent bulbs, as you know use a filliment, heated to close to orange/white hot.
While it's true that AC changes polarity 60(Hz) times a second...passing through 0 , 120 times a second..the filliment has what's called "thermal inertia".
It takes a time..significantly more than the period of a 60Hz wave to cool below "emission".
The human eye can not really distinguish a "flicker" of more than 32-38 Hz.
Look at the cost savings of compact flouresent bulbs over a five year time frame.
The key is that incandesent bulbs are only about 10% efficeint..or 10 percent of the energy used is turned into light.
Flouresent bulbs are in the order of 85-90 %
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

IT DOES NOT MAKE CENTS FOR THE AVERAGE HOMEOWNER TO SWITCH ALL BULBS TO CFL's

CFL's (compact fluorescent lamps) should coust between $4 and $25, depending on the quality of the lamp... remember, you get what you pay for. However they all have there applications.

For the average homeowner, a few $4 lamps would be more than enough. Sure the lamps save money... the way it works is that they cost much more than a regular light bulb lets say $4 instead of $0.45. And the longer it is on, the more it saves.

It only makes sense to replace bulbs which are on for extended periods, frequently. Like the lamps outside. If a lamp is only on for a couple of hours a day, it will take 2-3 years to make up the difference in the costs of the lamps in hydro savings.

CFL's make much more sense to use in many businesses instead of households, as in a business, many lamps are on 8-24 hours per day where the lamp will pay for itself in 4-8 months instead of the average 2-3 years in a house.. i

THERE IS NO FLICKER IN CURRRENT TECHNOLOGY CFL'S

CFL'S CANNOT BE USED WITH A DIMMER

THE LIFE OF CFL's IS SHORTENED BY USING IN AN ENCLOSED FIXTURE

If CFL's are mounted in a base up position, it life will be shortened


If you have light bulbs which are hard to reach, it makes sense to use a CFL as it will last 10 times as long as an incandescant lamp and 5 times as lon as a halogen lamp... you have to change it much less often.

Less heat is generated by these than incandescant lamps or halogen lamps. Again, a this is much more important to a business where the lamps are on for extended periods of time.

For businesses, they save many in many ways
1) labour - it costs approx $15-30 / hour to change lamps (changing lamps much less often)
2) lamps - halogen lamps are at least $5 each (which is $25 over the life of a CFL)
3) Air Conditioning - saves wear and tear on A/C units by creating less heat and cutting back use on the need for cooling

If there is any business owners / maintenance or property managers / retail / resaurant managers or purchasing agent on here, I can provide you with a payback schedule if you are curious as to the feasability of using CFL's in your place of business. I know of someone with access to a program which will calculate your savings over a few years.. often times it is more than $10000-$15000 (by only spending a fraction of that initially) which is an very easy way to increase the profitability of your business.

a lamp with a colour temperature of 27K or 2700K will be of similar colour to a regular incandescant lamps

a lamp may be rated for 5 years but it is not guarantedd for that period

There is a big push to get CFL's into home now as this current technology IS OBSOLETE. in the next couple of years, CFL's will be replaced by a lamp which uses aproximately 25% of the energy of a CFL.. this lamp is an LED

If you are a homeowner switching all of your lamps to CFL's is not being a good global citizen... it is being very stupid while you unnecessarily add to the profits of a couple of large companies.

I can buy these lamps at a much better cost than any of you and I would only put one or two in my house
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

Re: the downside of going green

maximadude said:
each fluorescent bulb contains about 20 milligrams of mercury. About 800 million lamps are thrown out in the U.S. alone each year. One gram of mercury can contaminate a 2 acre pond. There is enough mercury in these used lamps to contaminate 200 million acres of water, and of course work it's way into the food chain. This sort of contamination could be avoided if bulbs are properly recycled but there are no recycling centres around that provide such a tailored service. There aint no magic bullet.
"Recently a Berkeley resident expressed concern to us that the compact fluorescent lamp (CFL) that she wanted to install to save energy had mercury in it, and this mercury would do more to harm the environment than the incandescent lamp she would replace. (Mercury is used in all fluorescent lamps to start them.)

While it is true that fluorescent lamps have a very, very small amount of mercury in them (about 1/1000th of an ounce—smaller than the period at the end of this sentence), a regular incandescent light bulb actually releases much more mercury into the environment.

The biggest source of mercury contamination is the mercury released through coal-fired power plants. Emissions from coal-fired power plants release approximately 46,300 kilograms of methylmercury a year, according to the EPA. CFLs use less energy and therefore reduce mercury emissions from coal plants. Replacing 1 billion incandescent lamps in the U.S. with CFLs could reduce mercury emissions by nearly 10 million grams.

How can a light switched on in Berkeley affect a coal-burning power plant in Arizona? Berkeley’s power grid is connected to the national electrical grid. The flip of a switch here calls on all power plants, including coal plants, to produce more power to supply the grid.

Over the life of one 27-watt CFL (about 10,000 hours of operation) it will consume 270 kWh (costing you about $40), resulting in a total of 8 mg mercury (~4mg from the bulb and ~4 mg from electricity production—half of this mercury is contained safely inside the lamp). Over that same 10,000 hours, a 100-watt incandescent bulb will consume 1,000 kWh (costing you about $150 for energy—and you will need to buy ten of these, since they only last about 1,000 hours each). A portion of that energy will be generated from coal which will release 17.6 mg mercury over hundreds of square miles.

Coal is the major fossil fuel used to generate electricity, in both the eastern and western United States. (The US fuel mix for electricity production is 56% coal, 9% natural gas, 4% oil, and 31% non-fossil fuels—hydroelectric, geothermal, solar, wind and cogeneration.) The smokestacks of these coal-burning power plants release “chemical vapors (of) known carcinogens such as mercury, heavy metals (arsenic, beryllium, cadmium, nickel), dioxin, furans and PCBs.” (From Power Scorecard TM, www.powerscorecard.org, a coalition of groups including Environmental Defense, the Union of concerned Scientists and the Natural Resource Defense Council.) An inventory of mercury emissions conducted by EPA in 1993 found that one-third of all mercury air emissions comes from coal burning electric power plants.

The mercury from smokestacks becomes airborne, spreading over hundreds, even thousands of miles before being deposited into waterways, pastureland and soil. Cows or cattle on pastureland hundreds of miles away take in mercury and heavy metals while grazing."

http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http:/...ticles/16Powerplay.Mercury.CFL.html&qte=0&o=0
 

Dong Joe

sure, climb on
Nov 16, 2003
223
0
16
London
Originally posted by Pallydin
>For those who are unaware, both incandescent and fluorescent
>bulbs can radiate a "flicker" effect as normal bulbs running on
>alternating current must turn off and on as the current changes.

Did you come up with this theory yourself? You have only made us aware of your lack of intelligence.

>The flicker of fluorescent bulbs is non-existent at peak performance

This sounds like a marketing pamphlet. Look at a FL out of the corner of your eye and you'll see the strobe effect. Move your hand fast in front of it and it will freeze frame. The light is flashing at you 120 times a second!

FACT: Fluorescent lights cause eye-strain and headaches.

DJ
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

Dong Joe said:

FACT: Fluorescent lights cause eye-strain and headaches.
THAT IS A MISCONCEPTION

Traditional flourescents (T12) are old technology and may flicker if ideal conditions are not present. Newer electronic ballsts have eliminated the "hum" and "flicker" commonly associated with these lamps in CFL's (compact flourescent lamps" , T5 and and T8 lamps.

it is not so much the flicker that causes eye strain and headaches but the CRI which is the quality of light. The new electronically ballasted lamps have a much higher CRI (colour rendering index).

Flourescent lamps are not what they used to be... If you believe the new generation of lamps has the same faults as the old, you are hopefully not ignorant but misinformed.
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

A better way to save on hydro costs is to invest $60 (approx) in a programmable thermostat and program it in the winter to drop the temperature 5-7 degrees during the day (while nobody is home) and at night (while everyone is sleeping) and also program it in the summer to raise the temperature by 5-7 degrees (if you have A/C)

This would pay for itelf in a few months.. after that it is money in your pocket.


Also, if you have an electric hot water heater... why have it heat water while nobody is home through the day or while people are sleeping??.. you can save a lot of energy by putting a $70 24 hour timer on the hot water tank.
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

Energy Savings for BUSINESS

I forgot to mention (If there is any business owners / maintenance or property. retail managers or purchasing agents on here)..

If you have and office full of 2 or 4 lamp (T12) flourescent fixtures and / or a warehouse full of 8 foot (T12) flourescent lamps, the T12 being the most inefficient flourescent lamp, it may be worthwhile switching to T8 lamps with an electronic ballast as this ballast is much more efficient and the lamps provide better light.

There are some companies who claim to specialize in retrofitting lighting systems. Some of them will say that they will upgrade your lighting and it will not cost you a dime. This is not a scam but it is MUCH more expensive to do it this way than have it done yourself.

Many people / businesses do not want to fork out the initial expense to change lighting systems and are content to pay for the least expensive lamps, ballasts or fixtures and fail to look at the big picture 8 months down the road after they start to see the returns on their investment

Also many businesses, on their hydro bill pay a penalty which is often a very large percentage of the bill. This occurs when there is a lot of lighting (using magnetic ballasts) and / or machinery ( electric motors / VFD's). Often, these things cause an imbalance in your power factor and result in you using more power than your meter registers. This problem is easy to fix and the solution will often pay for itself in 3-8 months I can provide info if required.

While we are talking about lighting, if you are paying $15-$25 for "long life" flourescent lamps... you are being scammed (but you or most likely the guy ordering the lamps is probably getting a "free gift.. I mean kickback" delivered with the lamps)
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

If every household replace 3-4 of its most used incandescent lamps with the equivalent compact fluorescent lamps, this would be a very significant reduction in the demand for hydro (megawatts), getting rid of the need to import power.

It would almost make too much sense and be in the best interest for Ontario Hydro or the local utilities to give each household 3-4 compact flourescent bulbs, as other provinces have done.
 

doubledown

who said 'surrender'?
Aug 20, 2003
871
0
0
tdot
Yeah, yeah, there's always 2 sides to every discussion. No biggie.
As for cost, Canadian Tire sells CFL's in packs of 3 for $12.99 plus whatever you get back in CT money.
 

LateComer

Better Late than Never
Nov 9, 2002
1,752
0
0
rubmeister100 said:
Two of the three cheapie CFL's I bought at Costco (3/$12) have l failed within the year. Outdoor wall fixtures in the driveway.
I don't think they are designed to work in cold temperatures.
 

Dong Joe

sure, climb on
Nov 16, 2003
223
0
16
London
I have done testing with an "OTT-LITE Model 13992", it has a 13W TYPE PL double-barrel fluorescent. This is a pleasing light I must say, but I feel like I'm in a grow-op whenever it's on!

DJ
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

LateComer said:
I don't think they are designed to work in cold temperatures.
again, if you pay for quality, you get a product that you can depend on... if you know what to buy.

I like which Panasonic has a quality line of lamps that it has sold to industrial and commercial (retail, & hospitality) end users for years, which are rated for 10000 hours and -30 degrees celsius.. colour is very similar to a regular light bulb.. and they are also rated for use in an enclosed fixture (heat build up in an enclosed fixture dramatically shortens the life of most CFL's which are not rated for that application) range in price from about $10-$23

they also have an inexpensive 14 watt, rated for 6000 hours (not rated for cold temp or enclosed fixtures) for about $6

Osram Sylvania & Philips also make a decent product , but often times, most people see the offshore product in the box stores for $4 and don't want to pay for a product that has a name and will last.
 

james t kirk

Active member
Aug 18, 2001
21,470
8
38
Screw CFLs.

Wait till LED hit the market (and they are coming soon)

Light Emitting Diodes.

Yep, they throw more light and use far less power and last longer.

You may have noticed some of the higher end cars on the road already have them. You can distinguish them by when the tail light comes on it snaps on, and snaps off, unlike regular incandescent lights which sort of fade on and fade off.

http://www.sylvania.com/press/01212004a.html

I have read that household LED's aren't far behind now

http://www.ecmweb.com/market/electric_new_strides_led/

But speaking of saving energy, I have been taking the subway of late whereas before I would drive.

Fuck the big oil companies.
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

rubmeister100 said:
Would you recommend metal halide with polished reflectors or go with suspended flourescents? The metal halides take a few (inconvenient) minutes to warm up but have a nicer quality of light. The flourescents are faster but not as bright.
A few people have asked about flourescents for warehouse applications.

HID lamps are great... however, they use a ballast and can have an annoying hum, as well as a 15 minute restart and about a 3 minute start up time. Over time, there can be a colour shift and lumen output depreciates over time. Pulse start lamps have a quick startup and restart time, longer life and are more efficient than standard metal halide lamps.

There is a fixture which is about 50% more efficient than HID lighting and as bright. It can replace a 175, 250, 400 or a 1000W HID fixture. It is FLUORESCENT!! It is done with a T5 lamp and electronic, high efficiency ballast (which will never hum!)

The first businesses to switch to the newest, most efficient lighting systems are often times the box stores... Home Depot is switching from HID (high bays) to T5 strip fixtures (I noticed them over the kitchen cabinet section)

The light from these lamps has a CRI (color rendering index) between 80 & 90 which I think is superior to metal halide lamps. Fluorescent lamps have more colours to choose from (WW-27K, 35K, CW-41K, 50K & 65K). In my opinion, The fluorescent tubes are longer and provide a more even distribution of light

Click here to see a few T5 replacements for HID fixtureshttp://www.i-amigos.com/lighting-fl.jpg
 
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