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Lest we forget who the greatest is....

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fun-guy

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I've seen this guy play right from college and remember some of his unbelievable plays. Seeing it in one real is beyond words, this guy isn't human. His change of direction on a dime leaving opponents on the floor, his control in the air, his attacks to the basket over taller men and stuffing it in their faces, his trick shots to us but he's in total control, his defense, and his last second shots to win games are all ridiculous. Watch and enjoy and you'll see why they call him Air Jordan, the greatest player of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr6oAKieHk

btw, I remember the number one highlight, his Statue of Liberty shot, incredible under the circumstances.
 
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Don Draper

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Lest we forget who the greatest is:

http://youtu.be/xhlwe99GbVI

Edison Arantes do Nascimento (Portuguese pronunciation: [ˈɛtsõ (w)ɐˈɾɐ̃tʃiz du nɐsiˈmẽtu]), better known as Pelé (Brazilian Portuguese: [pe̞ˈlɛ], name given as Edison on birth certificate, born 21 October 1940 – however, Pelé himself claims that he was born on 23 October[1][13]), is a retired Brazilian footballer. He is regarded by many experts, players, and fans as the best player of all time.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21] In 1999, he was voted Football Player of the Century by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS).[22] In the same year French weekly magazine France Football consulted their former Ballon D'Or winners to elect the Football Player of the Century. Pelé came in first place.[23] Pelé was elected "Athlete of the Century" by the International Olympic Committee and Reuters News Agency in 1999, and by French newspaper L'Équipe in 1981.[24] During his playing days Pelé was for a period the best paid athlete in the world.[25][26][27] According to the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) he is the most successful league goal scorer in the world, with 541 league goals.[28] In total Pelé scored 1281 goals in 1363 games.[29][30] In his native Brazil, Pelé is hailed as a national hero.[31][32] He is known for his accomplishments and contributions to the game of football.[33] He is also acknowledged for his vocal support of policies to improve the social conditions of the poor (when he scored his 1,000th goal he dedicated it to the poor children of Brazil).[34] During his career, he became known as "The Black Pearl" (Pérola Negra), "The King of Football" (O Rei do Futebol), "The King Pelé" (O Rei Pelé) or simply "The King" (O Rei).
 
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fun-guy

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I'm still in the camp that Pele is the greatest soccer player ever as I saw him play in the 60's and I was blown away, but Messi is really building a case for himself. Here's a clip of Messi at 10 yrs old, he completely dominates and you can see he was going to be an international star. Watch his skills at the end of the highlights how he controls the ball without touching the ground for so long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v7f_kRx3sg

But then I saw Pele's highlights again, he leaves his opponents either frozen in their tracks, or they fall backwards or they just simply look like fools, and say, Nah....not yet, Messi has another 10 years to go IMO before judgement. At this time Pele is still the greatest in my book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq4S31oFHEA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIJtb3B2n_E
 
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Rockslinger

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Muhammed Ali except that he was mean to Joe Frazier. Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player I ever saw. Some would say Federererer in tennis. Woods in golf. All could be GOAT's.
 
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shack

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Edwin Moses dominated the whole world (not just North America MJ) for a very long time. I believe he won over 100 consecutive races (400 meter hurdles) on the world stage, including Olympics. Looked it up, 122 races over 11 seasons.

Tiger has definitely not passed Jack.
 
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Rockslinger

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shack said:
Edwin Moses dominated the whole world (not just North America MJ) for a very long time. I believe he won over 100 consecutive races (400 meter hurdles) on the world stage, including Olympics. Looked it up, 122 races over 11 seasons.
Click to expand...
Where does Usain Bolt stand in comparison?
 
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Rockslinger

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shack said:
What are his stats re: longevity? streaks?
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I'm sure therere are more stats but 2 Gold medals would definitely put him in the race for GOAT.

P.S. I just looked up Usain in Wikipedia nad some people say he is the greatest athlete ever.
 
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Don

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I can't think of an athelete that dominated his sport more than Jordan did. When he played, it was unquestioned who was the best. He humbed everyone. And still now it is unquestioned who is the best. Maybe in 10 years you can say LeBron is as good. In most any other sport I can think of, it is not always unquestioned. Pele was great but you will hear more then just a handful say that Diego was better and even Cruyff has backers. And now you here people argue for Messi. In hockey, the casual fan will look at stats and say of course it was Gretzky but the real fan knows this is debatable. NFL - some say Jim Brown but it is hardly unanimous. Maybe baseball and boxing is close with Ruth and Ali respectively. But I think the greatness between Jordan and his peers is greater.
 
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shack

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Don said:
I can't think of an athelete that dominated his sport more than Jordan did. When he played, it was unquestioned who was the best. He humbed everyone. . In hockey, the casual fan will look at stats and say of course it was Gretzky
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I'll say that Jordan was a better athlete. I may even say Orr was a better hockey player, but nobody dominated his sport more than Gretzky. It was unquestioned who was the best and as for humbling how about when Gretzky would get more assists in a season than anybody else got total points? Nobody was anywhere remotely close to him. What was it, 50 goals in 39 games?

Once the phrase "dominate his sport" comes up (let's say team sport), Gretzky is the clear #1.
 
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ZeroSumPlus

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Don said:
I can't think of an athlete that dominated his sport more than Jordan did.
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Basketball is a hard game to "dominate" since it's such a team game...
It took 7 looooooooong years to build a team around MJ...
That finally got past the Pistons... and beat the Lakers in the Finals.

In fact, MJ was so "dominant"...
That the expansion Raptors beat the Bulls in 1995-96...
It was like the Raptor Championship for that year.

And we saw how "dominant" LeBron was in Cleveland.

Most dominant overall probably Tiger Woods in his prime...
And Bobby Orr for both defensive and offensive dominance.
 
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Don

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shack said:
I'll say that Jordan was a better athlete. I may even say Orr was a better hockey player, but nobody dominated his sport more than Gretzky. It was unquestioned who was the best and as for humbling how about when Gretzky would get more assists in a season than anybody else got total points? Nobody was anywhere remotely close to him. What was it, 50 goals in 39 games?

Once the phrase "dominate his sport" comes up (let's say team sport), Gretzky is the clear #1.
Click to expand...
Shack - this is one thing that people do which I think is misleading - they go on stats. If you go on stats, then Jordan would be way behind Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson. Wilt's scoring stats were INSANE. Oscar averaged a triple double for a season and scored 30 points a game. But people who know how to look beyond the stats know Jordan was the better player.

The bast way to describe "dominate his sport" is when you think of the player, how far better is he considered to be than is peers? During Jordan's prime, there was no argument. It was even a joke that someone tried to compare a player to Jordan. And when someone did, Jordan abused them (think Drexler in 92 and Barkley in 93). You ask someone in the early to mid 90's who the best player, only one name came up really.

Now I agree that Gretzky dominated in the 80s. And to me he was #1 no question. But you actually had people who thought Mario was a better all around player than Wayne. I don't agree but there were more than just a few people, and they were not all from Quebec. It wasn't so clear cut like Jordan in the NBA.
 
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Don

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ZeroSumPlus said:
Basketball is a hard game to "dominate" since it's such a team game...
It took 7 looooooooong years to build a team around MJ...
That finally got past the Pistons... and beat the Lakers in the Finals.

In fact, MJ was so "dominant"...
That the expansion Raptors beat the Bulls in 1995-96...
It was like the Raptor Championship for that year.

And we saw how "dominant" LeBron was in Cleveland.

Most dominant overall probably Tiger Woods in his prime...
And Bobby Orr for both defensive and offensive dominance.
Click to expand...
Any sport with a long season, you are going to have some losses... no matter how great. A better barometer is that the Bulls set the NBA record with wins in a season.

But I think one great player can impact a team greater in basketball than say hockey, baseball or football. You can have a crap team, get a superstar and all of a sudden, they are good. One guy can change the who team around. Not so in other team sports like hockey. That is because more players are involved. You need more pueces.
 
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