Lance Armstrong is #1 again

danmand

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More so than chasing a black piece of rubber around the ice with a stick.....

OTB
Finally a topic where you both are right. Play soccer instead.
 

Closer68

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More so than chasing a black piece of rubber around the ice with a stick.....

OTB
I'm not at all a hockey fan.. I do consider it a sport, however..
 

dcbogey

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I've said this more than a few times but Armstrong is as innocent as the rest of the professional peleton. The number of professional riders who have admitted it recently pretty much proves this.

As guilty as Armstrong seems to be, I think it's idiotic to take away his titles when likely every one of the hundred plus riders in Le Tour were doing the same thing.
I bet Ben Johnson would agree with this as well.
 

Closer68

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Closer68

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Your're is a typo. You, however, are much less intelligent than a typo.

Cycling is very much a sport by every meaning of the word. I've only done indoor cycling (i.e. Spinning), but from that I can imagine the real thing, going up hills (and even down them), and having to keep one's core and upper body strong an engaged for an entire race would be only possible to the most elite athletes.

You say be respectful - fine. Don't make sweeping statements that you know are bound to be insulting.
Okay, so are outdoor one-arm pushups a sport? What separates that activity from riding a bike up and down a hill?
 

GameBoy27

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I know it's easy to presume guilt, but in the western world, we do it the other way. the usada has no proof. all they have is a bunch of riders saying they did it and, by gum, lance did too. maybe we could dispense with all the court nonsense and just ask people to testify. sure would get murder trials finished quicker.

comes down to what is the definition of doping. it is not just using something. it is using sufficient quantity of something to have an effect. that effect might be performance related. and the way this is known is by testing. lance has never tested bad. so either all the testing is insufficient and therefore all the riders that failed should be exonerated, or the test procedures are sound and lance is innocent. he may be planning to bring down the usada by holding back. this is fun to watch.
If he is so innocent and believes they have no proof, why doesn't he sue everyone for slander?
 

colt

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Okay, so are outdoor one-arm pushups a sport? What separates that activity from riding a bike up and down a hill?
By your criteria it seems very many athletic endeavours would not qualify as a sport. If riding a bike is not a sport, is running a sport (sprinting, marathons, etc.)? Is swimming a sport? Is throwing something (javelin, shot put etc.) a sport? You acknowledge hockey is a sport but that merely involves skating, team work, and the manipulation of an external implement (the puck). I don't think skating is inherently different than cycling - in both cases you are using an external, muscle powered, device to propel yourself across a surface. If team work and/or the manipulation of an external implement are your criteria than you obviously have a very narrow definition of what a sport is. Which you are perfectly entitled to.

But for someone who claims to have an IQ in the 99.5th percentile you really do have no clue about professional cycling. I am not going to fawn over it the way Ridgeman does but I will say that at the professional level cycling is very much a team activity (I avoid the use of the word "sport" in order to not distract you from the issue at hand). There is a considerable amount of attention devoted to team tactics and planning. Essentially you have an entire team working to support a single rider - the other team members work to provide the key rider with a draft in order to lessen his/her workload and expend their own energy chasing down anyone who tries to breakaway from the pack.

Perhaps this point is too subtle but it is one that seems to have been completely missed in the discussion surrounding Lance Armstrong. People talk as if he won the 7 Tour de France titles single handedly. No doubt he was the foremost rider of those races but it is highly unlikely he would have won a single race without the assistance of his team members. So lets assume Armstrong did not dope (not my personal belief but let's assume it for argument's sake) - at the very least he benefitted enormously from having an entire team around him that was doping. Their recovery times, their ability to provide him with a draft, to get him to the front of the pack, to chase down break away riders all were directly related to their own doping and Armstrong's success is, at the very least, tied directly to their doping. I know the argument is that every other team was doping too so Armstrong's team was merely playing on a level field. I think this is probably true - it still doesn't mean that Armstrong's or his team's success should be rewarded with trophies and a place in the history books.
 

Closer68

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By your criteria it seems very many athletic endeavours would not qualify as a sport.
Do you believe NASCAR is a sport? Pushups? Jumping Jacks? Is everything a fucking sport these days?
 

Closer68

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Clearly you have not been on a bike for any length of time. Here are some things to be aware of:

- Pedalling up a hill is exceptionally hard. Even the slightest incline (i.e. under 5-degrees) is tough for a novice. I can guarantee most in-shape people could not handle a 5 degree incline for more than 10 minutes. The endurance that professional cyclists possess is second to none.

- The muscle required to cycle is also significant in all areas of the body.

- Achieving a good pedal stroke is akin to asking a human to be a "perfect engine" for every stroke they take. A good pedal stroke involves more than just pushing down on the pedals, it equally involves pulling up on them, and the efforts need to be coordinated over two legs. Achieving a perfect pedal stroke is a big challenge.

- To the point above, the legs may institute the pedal stroke, but it is the core that provides the power. The core needs to support the legs in a way that creates maximum efficiency and power. That means virtually no extraneous movement in that area and the strength necessary to provide the power to the legs. Virtually no one in Spinning classes gets this part right.

- Combine all of this with the fact that a race like the Tour De France is like a 21-day event of like 12 hours a day for each cyclist, and you have hills that easily exceed 10-degrees. In fact, an average Tour De France is 3,200 km in total. That is 152 km a day, or the equivalent distance of 3.6 marathons a day for 21 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now yes, bikes enable people to go further than running on legs, but when you consider 3.6 marathons a day for 21 days on hills that no marathon is ever held on, I hope that even a dullard like you can see why cycling is a real sport.
Do you believe NASCAR is a sport? Pushups? Jumping Jacks? Is everything a fucking sport these days?
 

smiley1437

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Yes, I'd be fine with that...
But then, once you've taken yourself out of the voting pool, what if there was legislation enacted that was not in your interest?

What if those super-geniuses decided that it would be better for society to become smarter and silently sterlize anyone who was 99.5 percentile IQ or less? That way, only smart babies would be born, that would be good for society right? (The point of not understanding WHY they're doing it is now out of our hands - obviously, our supersmart overlords are smarter and know what's right, right?)

Anyway, my point is that once you take yourself out of the voting pool, your own interests wouldn't matter anymore and your rights would probably get trampled. If you look at the time before women got the vote, there was a ton of legislation that was just completely unfair to women.

Segregation of voting right by IQ would cause something similar. So while it might look good on the surface, overall I doubt it would be a slam dunk for society as a whole.
 

Closer68

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But then, once you've taken yourself out of the voting pool, what if there was legislation enacted that was not in your interest?

What if those super-geniuses decided that it would be better for society to become smarter and silently sterlize anyone who was 99.5 percentile IQ or less? That way, only smart babies would be born, that would be good for society right? (The point of not understanding WHY they're doing it is now out of our hands - obviously, our supersmart overlords are smarter and know what's right, right?)

Anyway, my point is that once you take yourself out of the voting pool, your own interests wouldn't matter anymore and your rights would probably get trampled. If you look at the time before women got the vote, there was a ton of legislation that was just completely unfair to women.

Segregation of voting right by IQ would cause something similar. So while it might look good on the surface, overall I doubt it would be a slam dunk for society as a whole.
That's a lot of what-ifs, and I have no reason to believe that the uber-smart would do that. In fact, the more intelligent one is, the more likely one is to be liberal.
 

userz

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On a somewhat related note can we all agree that Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa et al do NOT belong in Cooperstown?
 

smiley1437

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That's a lot of what-ifs, and I have no reason to believe that the uber-smart would do that. In fact, the more intelligent one is, the more likely one is to be liberal.
There's only one 'what if' (ie enacting unfavorable legislation unopposed) and it was followed with an example of that 'what if' (ie. an example of unfavorable legislation).

'One' isn't usually considered 'a lot' but whatever, maybe you can convince enough people to follow your vision of utopia
 

Closer68

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On a somewhat related note can we all agree that Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa et al do NOT belong in Cooperstown?
Yes.
 

Closer68

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There's only one 'what if' (ie enacting unfavorable legislation unopposed) and it was followed with an example of that 'what if' (ie. an example of unfavorable legislation).

'One' isn't usually considered 'a lot' but whatever, maybe you can convince enough people to follow your vision of utopia
Sterilizing people is a lot more than one what-if.... What-if we did this, what-if smart people became stupid, what-if smart people became evil, what-if, what-if, what-if....
 

Closer68

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smiley1437

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Sterilizing people is a lot more than one what-if.... What-if we did this, what-if smart people became stupid, what-if smart people became evil, what-if, what-if, what-if....
There's only one 'what if' - that the legislation enacted is incomprehensible and can't be challenged if you are not part of the voting pool. Remember, you agreed that they were smarter, so everything they do must be right. Too bad if you disagree - by definition, you're too dumb (i.e. only 99.5 percentile, where they are 99.9).

Stacking a bunch of 'what ifs' in your own post to cover your comprehension error doesn't add more 'what ifs' to what I posted...but don't sweat it, maybe reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Perhaps you're good at math? (well, not THAT good, if you think 'one' is 'many')

Hmm...you sure about that 99.5 percentile? Maybe you were reading your thermometer during a fever?
 

Closer68

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There's only one 'what if' - that the legislation enacted is incomprehensible and can't be challenged if you are not part of the voting pool. Remember, you agreed that they were smarter, so everything they do must be right. Too bad if you disagree - by definition, you're too dumb (i.e. only 99.5 percentile, where they are 99.9).

Stacking a bunch of 'what ifs' in your own post to cover your comprehension error doesn't add more 'what ifs' to what I posted...but don't sweat it, maybe reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Perhaps you're good at math? (well, not THAT good, if you think 'one' is 'many')

Hmm...you sure about that 99.5 percentile? Maybe you were reading your thermometer during a fever?

Did you miss the part about the correlation between high IQ and liberal leanings? Philanthropy? Ever heard of the "liberal elite"?

Anyway, it appears common sense isn't your greatest asset. But, hey, coming up with strange hypotheticals is! Let's build on that...
 
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