If you haven't figured out, groggy knows he can't argue about Hamas firing rockets from the midst of civilian areas and from beside civilian shelters so he is just arguing semantics. He claims that Hamas doesn't use human shields because he doesn't consider firing rockets from the yard of a church packed with asylum seekers to be using human shields.
Job Well Done - by Zionist Standards
- Thread starter gryfin
- Start date
Looks like you are kicking up a lot of dirt to avoid talking about Israel's continued use of human shields in the "neighbor procedure".If you haven't figured out, groggy knows he can't argue about Hamas firing rockets from the midst of civilian areas and from beside civilian shelters so he is just arguing semantics. He claims that Hamas doesn't use human shields because he doesn't consider firing rockets from the yard of a church packed with asylum seekers to be using human shields.
Bring them on, one by one and we'll discuss them.So you don't remember the threads on the Finnish reporter? The CBC report? The Indian one?
You are in full denial.
As soon as you discuss these:
Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields. The Bani Sobeila area, near Khan Younis, where the Abu Jamaa deaths took place received leaflets dropped from the air last week warning them to leave.
But almost all stayed. One reason for that was many of the houses belonged to the Abu Jamaa clan who felt there was safety in staying together. Another reason was given by a neighbour, Abdullah al-Daweish: “Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.htmlJeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."
Yousef Munayyer, executive director of the Jerusalem Fund, says the claim that Palestinians use civilians as human shields is a myth, and also racist.
On MSNBC, he responded to a clip of a spokesperson for Netanyahu, who said that Hamas urged its citizens to stay in combat areas despite warnings from Israel.
“It’s unfortunate we can hear Israeli spokespeople who are speaking on behalf of a military force that is inflicting massive civilian casualties on the ground stand here in front of your viewers and essentially blame the victims for their own deaths,” he said. “I think there’s something fundamentally wrong and, in fact, racist about that argument.”
Munayyer said that the claim that Hamas uses human shields is not a new one, but something he’s heard “time and time again.” He noted an Amnesty International investigation from a couple of years ago which claimed that there was no evidence of the claim. Instead, “they found Israeli ground troops were using Palestinians as human shields,” he said.
During war time, Munayyer continued, it is very easy for Israelis “to make up info graphics and whatever else to claim Palestinians, you know, just want to stand in front of Israeli missiles.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...-molly-wharton
After the investigations from the last slaughter the UN and Amnesty investigated both sides and found only Israel used human shields.
Up until 2005 it was IDF policy, since then its supposed to be banned, but there many, many youtube videos that show real examples of the use of human shields.
Examples of IDF using human shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WNfsFbNsPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkEzJZGNyMI
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
You are so right, let me go up and read your last five or six posts and we can debate some facts.Look at groggy spamming because he cannot argue the facts.
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...,
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What?
Not a single fact from fuji, just a refusal to look at evidence of state policy of using human shields by the IDF?
Here, let me refresh you on the facts.
Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields. The Bani Sobeila area, near Khan Younis, where the Abu Jamaa deaths took place received leaflets dropped from the air last week warning them to leave.
But almost all stayed. One reason for that was many of the houses belonged to the Abu Jamaa clan who felt there was safety in staying together. Another reason was given by a neighbour, Abdullah al-Daweish: “Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.htmlJeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."
Yousef Munayyer, executive director of the Jerusalem Fund, says the claim that Palestinians use civilians as human shields is a myth, and also racist.
On MSNBC, he responded to a clip of a spokesperson for Netanyahu, who said that Hamas urged its citizens to stay in combat areas despite warnings from Israel.
“It’s unfortunate we can hear Israeli spokespeople who are speaking on behalf of a military force that is inflicting massive civilian casualties on the ground stand here in front of your viewers and essentially blame the victims for their own deaths,” he said. “I think there’s something fundamentally wrong and, in fact, racist about that argument.”
Munayyer said that the claim that Hamas uses human shields is not a new one, but something he’s heard “time and time again.” He noted an Amnesty International investigation from a couple of years ago which claimed that there was no evidence of the claim. Instead, “they found Israeli ground troops were using Palestinians as human shields,” he said.
During war time, Munayyer continued, it is very easy for Israelis “to make up info graphics and whatever else to claim Palestinians, you know, just want to stand in front of Israeli missiles.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...-molly-wharton
After the investigations from the last slaughter the UN and Amnesty investigated both sides and found only Israel used human shields.
Up until 2005 it was IDF policy, since then its supposed to be banned, but there many, many youtube videos that show real examples of the use of human shields.
Examples of IDF using human shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WNfsFbNsPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkEzJZGNyMI
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
Before you change the topic to Israel (your favorite way to wriggle away from a topic you dislike) let's conclude our discussion about the irrefutable proof Hamas fired rockets from civilian areas including hospitals and schools.
Fact #1, a Finnish reporter confirmed IDF's statement that Hamas fired from a hospital when she mentioned in a report that Hamas was firing from the hospital grounds
Fact #2, a CBC reporter witnessed rockets coming from a densely populated residential neighborhood
Fact #3, an Indian team witnessed rockets being fired from near their hotel and has video of part of it
Fact #4, a Washington Post reporter confirmed that it was not unusual for rockets to be fired from near his hotel
Shall we go on? I have lots more of these.
Fact #1, a Finnish reporter confirmed IDF's statement that Hamas fired from a hospital when she mentioned in a report that Hamas was firing from the hospital grounds
Fact #2, a CBC reporter witnessed rockets coming from a densely populated residential neighborhood
Fact #3, an Indian team witnessed rockets being fired from near their hotel and has video of part of it
Fact #4, a Washington Post reporter confirmed that it was not unusual for rockets to be fired from near his hotel
Shall we go on? I have lots more of these.
Before you change the topic to Israel (your favorite way to wriggle away from a topic you dislike) let's conclude our discussion about the irrefutable proof Hamas fired rockets from civilian areas including hospitals and schools.
Fact #1, a Finnish reporter confirmed IDF's statement that Hamas fired from a hospital when she mentioned in a report that Hamas was firing from the hospital grounds
Fact #2, a CBC reporter witnessed rockets coming from a densely populated residential neighborhood
Fact #3, an Indian team witnessed rockets being fired from near their hotel and has video of part of it
Fact #4, a Washington Post reporter confirmed that it was not unusual for rockets to be fired from near his hotel
Shall we go on? I have lots more of these.
Please supply links, otherwise they are hearsay.
And how about this, for every single allegation I discuss with you about Hamas we also discuss one allegation from Israel?
Fair?
Unless you can raise real arguments against the multiple cases of human shield uses by Israel, I'm going to assume that you have no arguments and concede that Israel uses human shields.
If you can't supply the sources then we can start with the ones I've supplied.Seriously groggy? You didn't see the links the dozens of other times they were posted here?
If you won't discuss and defend Israel's policies and actions we can confirm that Israel uses human shields.
We could start with the history.
In 2008 the UN investigated both sides and found only one side used human shields, Israel.
So the sources that YOU HAVE DISCUSSED ON OTHER THREADS have to be reposted every time they are mentioned or they don't exist?
Obviously I can supply them but I want to highlight you pathetic and petty obstructionist tactics.
You know these sources well but you are pretending they don't exist just to delay or avoid admitting Hamas fires from c civilian areas.
Obviously I can supply them but I want to highlight you pathetic and petty obstructionist tactics.
You know these sources well but you are pretending they don't exist just to delay or avoid admitting Hamas fires from c civilian areas.
The sources that I have dismissed as poor?So the sources that YOU HAVE DISCUSSED ON OTHER THREADS have to be reposted every time they are mentioned or they don't exist?
Obviously I can supply them but I want to highlight you pathetic and petty obstructionist tactics.
You know these sources well but you are pretending they don't exist just to delay or avoid admitting Hamas fires from c civilian areas.
Go ahead, try again.
In the meantime, you refuse to acknowledge that the only side that has a history of using human shields is Israel, that it was state policy up until 2005.
So you do know what sources I am talking about, and you want to write off a half dozen world class news organizations as poor because you don't like what they say. You prefer dodgy outlets like Truth Out and 972mag that have radical biases and no editorial standards over the Washington Post, CBC, and other reputable news outlets.
You mean world class news organizations like these?So you do know what sources I am talking about, and you want to write off a half dozen world class news organizations as poor because you don't like what they say. You prefer dodgy outlets like Truth Out and 972mag that have radical biases and no editorial standards over the Washington Post, CBC, and other reputable news outlets.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehd...b_5624401.htmlJeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...d-9619810.htmlSome Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields. The Bani Sobeila area, near Khan Younis, where the Abu Jamaa deaths took place received leaflets dropped from the air last week warning them to leave.
But almost all stayed. One reason for that was many of the houses belonged to the Abu Jamaa clan who felt there was safety in staying together. Another reason was given by a neighbour, Abdullah al-Daweish: “Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”
For you to ignore once again.Please supply links, otherwise they are hearsay....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-rocket-launched-during-cbc-interview-1.2731201
http://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-archbishop-says-rockets-fired-from-church/
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/3...ion-misfired-rocket-killed-children-in-shati/
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/w...re-video-of-rocket-launch-from-gaza.html?_r=0
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Prot...de-into-Israel-says-foreign-journalist-369804
http://www.france24.com/en/20140805...et-launching-pad-near-gaza-homes-un-building/
And the Foreign Press Association
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...asts-Hamas-for-threatening-journalists-370755
The UNRWA has established that weapon were stored only in three schools, and all three were closed at the time, so they weren't examples of human shields since there was nobody in the building at the time. Its a crime to use civilian infrastructure, just as its a worse crime for Israel to destroy civilian infrastructure including nearly a hundred mosques, many schools and hospitals and nearly 10,000 buildings.Posting some reports that people were not forced to stay near the weapons doesn't dispute the reports that the weapons were installed in hospitals and schools and fired from civilian areas.
The quotes above show that Hamas did not have a policy of using human shields by forcing them to stay near areas weapons were fired or by forcing civilians to stay in their homes.
That's most of your charges dismissed.
Now its time for you to admit Israel's history of using human shields. Including it being IDF policy up until 2005 and yet still occurring in 2008 as shown by the Goldstone report.
Your refusal to even try to argue confirms that you have no case against those charges.
Now that we've established Israel's very recent history of using human shields, it makes all testimony provided before that much more believable.
Israel has even gone as far as banning HRW and Amnesty, for fear of more of such reports.
Israel is the only side using human shields.
That isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the many mainstream news reports of Hamas firing rockets from hospitals, hotels, and crowded residential areas.The UNRWA has established that weapon were stored only in three schools, and all three were closed at the time, so they weren't examples of human shields since there was nobody in the building at the time.
Whether or not Hamas "forced" people to stay that is indeed using human shields. Certainly Hamas asked people to stay, publicly, and perhaps you can tell me how a sick child gets away from the rocket launcher outside the window of his room at the hospital.
There is no disputing that Hamas used human shields, moreover that this use of human shields is directly responsible for a higher civilian casualty rate.
Those are the only legit reports I've seen.That isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the many mainstream news reports of Hamas firing rockets from hospitals, hotels, and crowded residential areas.
And if you can't supply any, this debate is over.
The only evidence provided shows that Israel has a history of using human shields and is still actively using human shields according to numerous reports.
case closed.
Oh yea....he'll supply the Indian reporter who contrived that whole video about a missile site.Those are the only legit reports I've seen.
And if you can't supply any, this debate is over.
The only evidence provided shows that Israel has a history of using human shields and is still actively using human shields according to numerous reports.
case closed.
Let's see if he'll post that one, the one where they blur out the faces of the 'Hamas' agents. How proper of them to do that.
