Job Well Done - by Zionist Standards

[Moviefan-2]

The first article contains no eyewitness accounts, only opinions.
The Youtube video has a translation with the words 'human shields' in brackets as they talk about Palestinians defending their homes bare chested. It doesn't say what you claim.
The third link goes to an article that has nothing to do with human shields.

You failed to provide any evidence.

Once again, you not only want me to provide you with the sources, you also want me to read them to you.

If you insist.

The first article cites correspondents who were based in Gaza. The YouTube link has a Hamas official confirming that Hamas encourages people to act as human shields (the confirmation is found in his answer, not in the interviewer's question). The Washington Post article confirms that Hamas officials have been based in a hospital.

By the way, a human shield doesn't have to be proven to have been an "unwilling" human shield.

You've provided a rather interesting list of beliefs in the last few days:

-- You claim Hamas recognizes Israel's legitimate right to exist.
-- You claim Hamas doesn't use human shields.
-- You claim Hamas was building tunnels into Israel to protect Palestinians from enemy fire (this is still my favourite).

 

[groggy]

Once again, you not only want me to provide you with the sources, you also want me to read them to you.

I'll tell you what, we can continue this discussion but only after you've also read the sources I've provided you with showing the use of human shields as a long term pattern with the IDF.
Then, we can both condemn all uses of human shields by both sides.

 

[fuji]

Holy shit I am amazed by the intentional blindness this guy goes through to defend Hamas. Multiple directly witnessed by a half dozen reporters. The words of the Archbishop of Gaza. The word of the Foreign Press Association. All somehow are really from the IDF.




p.s. Does it make things better that it was a Hamas run shelter they fired from rather than a UNRWA one?

He is a pathetic clown in full denial. He had pretty much completely disconnected from reality at this point.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Then, we can both condemn all uses of human shields by both sides.

Does this mean you're conceding that Hamas uses human shields?

 

[groggy]

Does this mean you're conceding that Hamas uses human shields?

Not at all, I just won't discuss it until you read and respond to the evidence that Israel uses human shields.
Why are you so afraid to discuss whether Israel uses human shields?

 

[fuji]

Look at groggy squirm, anything to change the topic away from Hamas using hospitals and other crowded civilian places to fire rockets.

 

[groggy]

Look at groggy squirm, anything to change the topic away from Hamas using hospitals and other crowded civilian places to fire rockets.

Squirm?

I'll answer questions once you and moviefan stop squirming and answer why you support Israel using human shields.

 

[fuji]

You can't face the truth. There is no debate about Hamas firing rockets from hospitals and other crowded civilian locations.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Not at all, I just won't discuss it until you read and respond to the evidence that Israel uses human shields.
Why are you so afraid to discuss whether Israel uses human shields?

The focus is on Hamas because the overwhelming majority of reported civilian casualties are Palestinians.

In fact, you're the guy who posted in 2013 that Hamas fires rockets at random because it doesn't have the technology to fire directed attacks. If your post was correct and Hamas isn't able to launch targeted attacks, then there wouldn't be any reason for Israel to use human shields.

Who knows what the targets are, they could be aiming for Israel's nuke station for all we know. Because they can't aim the things, they are home made, tin can rockets.
In any event, nobody was killed in Israel by rocket attacks, in fact I don't know how long its been since anybody in Israel has been killed by a rocket from Palestinians.

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?433486-Is-Targeting-Civilians-Justified/page10

The situation is quite different for Hamas and its supporters, which use civilian casualties as part of their campaign against Israel (see the original post in this thread).

According to the UN, as of Aug 21:

475 Palestinian children have been killed.
3000 Palestinian children have been wounded
1000 Palestinian children will suffer a life long disability
Up to 1500 Palestinian children have been orphaned
Up to 6000 Palestinian children will have a parent with a life long disability

Hamas has strategic reasons for wanting to see civilians killed. So I repeat the question. Do you accept the independent findings that Hamas uses human shields? Yes or no.

 

[groggy]

You can't face the truth. There is no debate about Israel using human shields as a matter of policy.

Fixed your post.
I've given you multiple examples of IDF using human shields, you are just ignoring them and won't discuss them.
While I've already gone over your examples a couple of times.

Its you that's squirming.

 

[groggy]

In fact, you're the guy who posted in 2013 that Hamas fires rockets at random because it doesn't have the technology to fire directed attacks. If your post was correct and Hamas isn't able to launch targeted attacks, then there wouldn't be any reason for Israel to use human shields.

The Israel terms of 'human shield' are basically false to begin with.
The IDF examples are real examples of using a human shield, where they grab someone as prisoner, tie them up and stand behind them as they either shoot at militants or search areas.
That's the type of human shields that Goldstone reported in 2008, and the kind that was official policy in Israel up until 2005.

The Netanyahu use of the term doesn't really fit his description since its very clear that Hamas doesn't fire rockets and tell people to stand around where they just fired them, in order to protect the location. There is no proof that Hamas has ever fired from any of the 61 Mosques or 91 UNRWA sites that have been destroyed. Instead this just fits the pattern of Israel targeting civilian sites as part of the confirmed Dahiya Doctrine, where Israel directly targets civilians and civilian sites. Netanyahu is using the human shield excuse to try to justify what is very clearly terrorism.

Eisenkot labeled any Israeli response to resumed
conflict the "Dahiya doctrine" in reference to the leveled
Dahiya quarter in Beirut during the Second Lebanon War in
2006. He said Israel will use disproportionate force upon
any village that fires upon Israel, "causing great damage and
destruction." Eisenkot made very clear: this is not a
recommendation, but an already approved plan -- from the
Israeli perspective, these are "not civilian villages, they
are military bases." Eisenkot in this statement echoed
earlier private statements made by IDF Chief of General Staff
Gabi Ashkenazi, who said the next fight in Southern Lebanon
would come at a much higher cost for both sides -- and that
the IDF would not hold back.

http://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08TELAVIV2329_a.html

Hamas has strategic reasons for wanting to see civilians killed. So I repeat the question. Do you accept the independent findings that Hamas uses human shields? Yes or no.

I don't think real evidence has been found yet, but if there is they should be charged as Netanyahu should also be charged for what is much clearer use of human shields.

 

[fuji]

Groggy dancing furiously trying to change the topic away from Hamas firing rockets from hospitals and other crowded civilian places.

 

[groggy]

Groggy dancing furiously trying to change the topic away from Hamas firing rockets from hospitals and other crowded civilian places.

I've answered a few times.

Why won't you answer to charges that Israel is guilty of using human shields?
It came out in the Goldstone report, it'll come out in the next UN report and then probably at the ICC after Abbas' UN bid fails.

You're going to need the practice, why not start your excuses now?
Stop your own dancing.

 

[fuji]

You have not acknowledged the widely reported and indisputable fact that Hamas fires from hospitals and other civilian locations.

 

[groggy]

You have not acknowledged the widely reported and indisputable fact that Hamas fires from hospitals and other civilian locations.

I have answered that the evidence I've been shown here isn't conclusive and that there are quotes from the NYT and BBC showing that they didn't suspect Hamas of using human shields.

Now, why are you so afraid of answer to the accusations against Israel?

Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields. The Bani Sobeila area, near Khan Younis, where the Abu Jamaa deaths took place received leaflets dropped from the air last week warning them to leave.

But almost all stayed. One reason for that was many of the houses belonged to the Abu Jamaa clan who felt there was safety in staying together. Another reason was given by a neighbour, Abdullah al-Daweish: “Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

Yousef Munayyer, executive director of the Jerusalem Fund, says the claim that Palestinians use civilians as human shields is a myth, and also racist.

On MSNBC, he responded to a clip of a spokesperson for Netanyahu, who said that Hamas urged its citizens to stay in combat areas despite warnings from Israel.

“It’s unfortunate we can hear Israeli spokespeople who are speaking on behalf of a military force that is inflicting massive civilian casualties on the ground stand here in front of your viewers and essentially blame the victims for their own deaths,” he said. “I think there’s something fundamentally wrong and, in fact, racist about that argument.”

Munayyer said that the claim that Hamas uses human shields is not a new one, but something he’s heard “time and time again.” He noted an Amnesty International investigation from a couple of years ago which claimed that there was no evidence of the claim. Instead, “they found Israeli ground troops were using Palestinians as human shields,” he said.

During war time, Munayyer continued, it is very easy for Israelis “to make up info graphics and whatever else to claim Palestinians, you know, just want to stand in front of Israeli missiles.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...-molly-wharton

After the investigations from the last slaughter the UN and Amnesty investigated both sides and found only Israel used human shields.
Up until 2005 it was IDF policy, since then its supposed to be banned, but there many, many youtube videos that show real examples of the use of human shields.

Examples of IDF using human shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WNfsFbNsPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkEzJZGNyMI
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw

 

[fuji]

The evidence is indisputable, you are a kook jihadi in full denial of the facts. This isn't one report, there are multiple reports all from credible, independent agencies.

Denying the news is a losing strategy.

 

[groggy]

The evidence is indisputable, you are a kook in full denial of the facts. This isn't one report, there are multiple reports all from credible, independent agencies.

Denying the news is a losing strategy.

I almost laughed myself off my chair with that one!
Nicely done.

Accuse me of deny the facts while you've provided none and I keep giving you more and more?
Hypocrisy to the 10th degree!

Here, while I sit and peruse all the 'facts you've provided'....... whoah, that almost took a second to go back and find you've given us none whatsoever.
Now that I've checked out your evidence I'll give you one more bonus report.

With a little IDF torture thrown in to boot and mention of the glorious 'neighbour procedure' of human shields.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/09/2011922135540203743.html


Now why do you refuse to discuss the multiple reports, videos and history of Israel's use of the 'neighbour procedure'?

 

[fuji]

We have the indisputable report from the Finnish reporter, we have reports from India, even the CBC reported seeing rockets being launched from civilian areas. There is nothing to dispute and no amount of lying by you will change those facts.

 

[groggy]

We have the indisputable report from the Finnish reporter, we have reports from India, even the CBC reported seeing rockets being launched from civilian areas. There is nothing to dispute and no amount of lying by you will change those facts.

Oh look, zero links, zero evidence.
What a surprise.






I have answered that the evidence I've been shown here isn't conclusive and that there are quotes from the NYT and BBC showing that they didn't suspect Hamas of using human shields.

Now, why are you so afraid of answer to the accusations against Israel?

Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields. The Bani Sobeila area, near Khan Younis, where the Abu Jamaa deaths took place received leaflets dropped from the air last week warning them to leave.

But almost all stayed. One reason for that was many of the houses belonged to the Abu Jamaa clan who felt there was safety in staying together. Another reason was given by a neighbour, Abdullah al-Daweish: “Where do we go to? Some people moved from the outer edge of Khan Younis to Khan Younis centre after Israelis told them to, then the centre got bombed. People have moved from this area to Gaza City, and Gaza City has been bombed. It’s not Hamas who is ordering us in this, it’s the Israelis.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: "I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel's accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields." The Guardian: "In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay." The Independent: "Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields." Reuters, 2013: "A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

Yousef Munayyer, executive director of the Jerusalem Fund, says the claim that Palestinians use civilians as human shields is a myth, and also racist.

On MSNBC, he responded to a clip of a spokesperson for Netanyahu, who said that Hamas urged its citizens to stay in combat areas despite warnings from Israel.

“It’s unfortunate we can hear Israeli spokespeople who are speaking on behalf of a military force that is inflicting massive civilian casualties on the ground stand here in front of your viewers and essentially blame the victims for their own deaths,” he said. “I think there’s something fundamentally wrong and, in fact, racist about that argument.”

Munayyer said that the claim that Hamas uses human shields is not a new one, but something he’s heard “time and time again.” He noted an Amnesty International investigation from a couple of years ago which claimed that there was no evidence of the claim. Instead, “they found Israeli ground troops were using Palestinians as human shields,” he said.

During war time, Munayyer continued, it is very easy for Israelis “to make up info graphics and whatever else to claim Palestinians, you know, just want to stand in front of Israeli missiles.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...-molly-wharton

After the investigations from the last slaughter the UN and Amnesty investigated both sides and found only Israel used human shields.
Up until 2005 it was IDF policy, since then its supposed to be banned, but there many, many youtube videos that show real examples of the use of human shields.

Examples of IDF using human shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WNfsFbNsPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkEzJZGNyMI
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.aWw

 

[fuji]

There are already threads here with all those links you idiot. You lose.