I've fcxed up / crossed the line.....

[zekestone]

I feel so messed up I cant believe it. We are sharing passionate emails, but I feel that it is taking a toll on her as well, as she too has a "real life to live". the reality is that this is impossible. However I have not felt like this is years, (possibly never) and I dont want to let it go. I've been in a relationship that for many years that is in many ways nice (nice kids great mom, good partner) but in so many others deeply unsatisfying. The problem is I now have felt what it is like to really be into someone - so deeply - that I don't want to go back. I know that to move forward with this special relationship would devastate several people, and be brutal in many ways. But the selfish part of me, that has "settled" for soooooo long, now has "seen the light" and I dont know if I can continue in my "real life" situation. I don't know what to do , and feel at once exhillarated and lost at the same time. I can't believe what I am contemplating, and really am lost as to what to do. Have any of you been through this? I am not at all an "idealistic" "romantic" person. I'm not one to fall head over heels for anyone. But this has happened, I am worried I may be passing up a person that is truly "meant" for me (as stupid and sappy as that sounds)
Any similar experiences? How did things turn out?

You basically have 3 choices:
1. Run off with her (but verify if she wants to run off with you)
2. Don't run off with her
3. Strive for the best of both worlds

If you select #1, make a clean break... I'm talking move to another city/country and start a new life with her. I know of one incidence of that where a VP in my company literally ran off one day with his secretary... both of them leaving their families behind. Pros: You may find true happiness. Cons: A very tough thing to do and very disruptive to the people currently around you
The Principle:You need to look after yourself too, not just everybody else.

Selecting #2 means that you choose to carry on with "settling" for what you already have. Pro: It's the easy option Con: achieving true happiness is unlikely and you may regret it and may torture yourself with couldda/wouldda/shouldda questions in the future. I personally have witnessed a couple of people going through this.
The Principle:What you want isn't as important as doing what's best for you AND everyone around you.

Selecting #3 means you explain how torn up you are to your SO. Explain how on one hand you don't want to hurt anyone and don't want to leave her, but also explain how this other woman makes you feel. And then pop the 'I'd like to work to a more open relationship'. Open relationships don't happen overnight. They happen in steps. It did for me. You start by talking about it. Then thinking. More talking. More thinking. Maybe then go to some strip clubs (some where the girls strip, some where the guys strip - and be prepared to buy her some lap dances). From there, who knows? Just remember, if you want freedom to do other girls, then you should give her the freedom to see guys.
The Principle: Just because you've been with your SO for a long time doesn't necessarily mean that she can't surprise you. Give her the opportunity to surprise you. If you still care about her, doesn't she deserve that chance?

BUT... You MUST be prepared for the idea that your SO will have sex with other guys. If you can't do that, than forget about #3. But if you're like me and get off on the idea of your SO fooling around with other guys, then it's practically your duty to at least attempt #3.

Also, in attempting #3, it will be a good test for your relationship with your SO and if #3 doesn't work, what you learn from the attempt will make it clear whether #1 or #2 is better.

Even if this woman doesn't want to run off with you, by explaining the situation to your SO, it will cause disruption, but it will also clarify what the best choice is. But don't let your SO punish you for telling the truth... Often people *say* they want the truth, but their actions show they want to be lied to.

**edit/update** When explaining things to the SO, she will initially get pissed and maybe yell and be nasty. It is absolutely important to keep your cool and do NOT retaliate. The goal is to have an open and honest discussion. Expect there to be hurt feelings and reactions initially. But if she's smart, she should be able to figure out that you could have easily kept her in the dark. Does she really want to punish you for being open and honest... thereby encouraging you to be closed and dishonest with her? Asking her that will totally take the wind out of her anger.

 

[zekestone]

BTW Psychologists are overrated, they just tell you what you already should have done - that's why I like terb...................

Yeah, years ago in my pre-open-marriage days, after I got caught once fucking around, we went to counseling. Many of these people just talk and talk and talk and almost seem to be afraid to start digging and tackling the real issues. It's like they don't really want to resolve things so you keep coming there and *they* can keep making money off of you.

Basically, I've found I've gotten better advice from strippers than the average psychologist.

Psychotherapy, on the other hand, can be useful in treating specific conditions like obsessive-compulsive disorder, depression, etc, if the therapist has experience and training for the disorder in question.

 

[zekestone]

And a General Comment to everyone on this subject:

Years ago, I read a book called Thy Neighbour's Wife by Guy Thelese.

I highly recommend this book.

It's about how sex and sexuality had changed in recent history up to when the book was written in the early 1970s.

Two of the people interviewed were Hugh Hefner... and Hugh Hefner's first ex wife.

It seemed to me that because Hugh Hefner made it big, people would forgive him for a lot more. Even his ex didn't really speak badly about him because she knew (or believed) that Hugh didn't sleep with other women out of any malicious intent towards her... and that made it much easier.

These days, nobody expects Hugh Hefner to be a one-woman guy. It's just accepted.

But you can bet that's not how it was back in the 1950s when he was starting Playboy. But eventually people just accepted it.

The point is that you would be surprised at how people will come around to accept you even if you sleep with a thousand women. You just need to give them some time. It also helps if you are kind, honest, caring to people... and have money.

And for more recent proof, just look at Paris Hilton. She's a total fuck up. But she's good looking and has money.... and therefore has her hard core following. Now if only she would stop being a fuck up, then she would be a "could do no wrong" position.

 

[SunocoOil]

Do Nothing ! ! ! !

WHY

YOU NEED TO BOTH MAKE SURE YOU FEEL THE SAME. IF YOU DECIDE TO PURSUE...DO NOTHING. TELL THE GIRL AT THE OTHER END YOUR PLANS. IS SHE INTO IT? WILL SHE LEAVE ?(Hard to think she will with kids and all). IF SHE IS INTO IT, TELL HER TO START THE PROCESS OF THE SPLIT AT HER END. YOU MUST MUST MUST SEE THE PHYSICAL SPLIT OCCURRING AND THAT SHE IN FACT WANTS TO GET WITH YOU. A FEW TIMES TOGETHER DOES NOT MAKE FOR THE START OF A LIFE TIME.

CAUSE........YOU MAY START TO SPLIT AT YOUR END..SHE GETS COLD FEET..AND YOUR FRIED

YOU KNOW HOW HARD THE DECISION IS FOR YOU. IMAGINE WHAT IT IS LIKE FOR HER -4 HOURS AWAY -KIDS- ETC-ETC.

DO NOTHING -UNTIL SHE DOES SOMETHING. MAYBE SHE GOT ALL SHE WANTED IN THAT ONE NIGHT!!!!

EMAILS ARE BULLSHIT- SO EASY TO TRADE- SO TWO DIMENSIONAL....EASY TO BE PASSIONATE UNTIL YOUR LIVING WITH THEM IN A PILE OF LAUNDRY WITH A BROKEN TV AND A LEAKY ROOF. THE BUSINESS TRIPS HAVE TOO MUCH BUILT IN HOSPITALITY AND FREEDOM TO THINK ITS ANYTHING CLOSE TO REAL AT THIS POINT!!

 

[fuji]

As a guy who has cheated with SP's, with mistresses, with girlfriends, with friends, and who still thinks he has a great marriage, I have some words for you:

Figure out what is keeping you in your marriage. Is it dependency? Habit? Or is there something about your wife that you really like? In other words, sort out why you're there and what you are getting out of it. I did. I know exactly why I am with my wife.

You HAVE To do this. You can't not know why you are with your wife. If you don't know, stay the fuck away from other women until you do know. It's VERY easy to take someone for granted and then find out only after you fuck up what it really meant to you.

If you know what you're getting out of your mariage you will be able to make rational decisions outside of it. You will be able to watch for the sorts of things (emotional, time, presence, place, whatever) that threaten your marriage and avoid those things. If you don't know what you get out of your wife you won't see the warning signs until it's too late.

In my case my wife is like my best friend, emotionally, she's #1 in my life, and I never let anyone else take that place. So, for all other women in the world, I'm a "womanizing slimeball", because that's all I want them for. They can't take my wife's place but I do enjoy a great night on the town and sex. As soon as I feel even a twinge of putting someone else emotionally ahead of my wife, or I feel like she's starting to "fall in love" with me, she's gone.

OK, you always have the risk that you will get caught, but there are dumb things you can do and smart things you can do. If you are cheating because you secretely are pissed off at your wife and wish you were out of the marriage then you will secretly set yourself up to get caught and then not so secretly lose your wife and then maybe find out that after all you did like being there.

You have to be in control of yourself and to be in control of yourself you have to know what you are doing and why both with your wife and with the others.

 

[massman]

You all give great advice. Like I said before, because of the miles, I've got lots of tim eto contemplate this. Part of the problem is that I think that carrying on like we are now (me and the new girl) is brutally hard for her - she has a life that she needs to live as well. I've sobered up a bit and am not rushing into anything.

 

[Genghis]

Do you love your kids? You helped to bring them into the world, stand up to your responsibility to them, put them first, you selfish man. What about her kids?
Grow up both of you. What is missing in your lives is not each other, but contentment. That my friend you have to find within yourself on the journey of life, another person can’t provide that.

 

[massman]

Do you love your kids? You helped to bring them into the world, stand up to your responsibility to them, put them first, you selfish man. What about her kids?
Grow up both of you. What is missing in your lives is not each other, but contentment. That my friend you have to find within yourself on the journey of life, another person can’t provide that.

I'd normally take offense at the "selfish man" comment, but it has a ring of truth to it, my problem is I've not been selfish enough over my life, and have spent most of my time satifying the needs / wants of others, not my own.

Kids, Dude you've hit the nail on the head. That is precisely what is stopping me from purely following my heart here. My kids. Same for her. I am coming to accept that she is an amazingly special person, who understands me like nobody else, but alas I cannot have.

What this whole experience has confirmed in me is that despite the lack of sex in my real life, what I really crave is love and understanding. That is what she gives me. In my current life my relationship wiht the SO, has evolved into a partnership where we raise kids, pay bills, work on the house etc. It is the loss of a feeling of mutual love and respect that leaves me lacking. My SO is a great person in so many ways, but she is happy wiht the current situation, I am not. DOn't get me wrong, I can probably live with it. I have been up until now, and will likely continue to do so . The problem is I've had a taste of how things might otherwise be. THat'll be hard to forget.

 

[Genghis]

It's the novelty with here that is enchanting for you right know, live with her for couple of years and the love and understanding between you will wear off, I guarantee it, and then you will regret what you did to your kids. They are the cornerstone of your life. If you fuck up with them you can never get that back and you will regret for the rest of your life. No matter how wonderful this women is know, both of you will regret in a few years time what you have thrown away. That is no way to build a relationship. I’ve been in a marriage that is similar to yours, when I look at my kids and what they have become and what they are doing with their lives, I am so proud for my life’s achievement.
When you look back what is going to be your achievement?
Stick it out my friend, and fuck all the women in the world and enjoy it, I am glad I did not walk out on my family when the going got tough.

 

[Genghis]

I'm not sure if you wanted responses from women, but I'm going to give you my 2 cents anyway. lol

Please do not forget the old agage "the grass is always greener......"

While you have a connection with this other woman (no one will deny you that, only you know what you feel with her) you saw her in a secretive, exciting context. Of course it's going to be alluring.

What happens if/when you leave your wife and kids, quit your job and fly across the country to be with this woman?
First, you will live with guilt for the rest of your life even if you are happy with her. You will be hurting your wife and children and no matter how happy YOU are, you will carry that burden forever.
Second, ok you change your whole life (and that of your family) and you are with the woman of your dreams. How long do you think THAT honeymoon is going to last? It will be wonderful at first no doubt, however as life progresses you still have to work, pay bills (now add child support and alimony to that list), and carry out the humdrum tasks of everyday life. If things go downhill and you and this other woman split, there is NO GOING BACK to your family.
Do you really want to risk that???????

You seem to be putting all the blame on your wife for your discontent in your marriage. Are YOU doing everything you can to bring the spark back into your marriage? If you really love her you will do everything possible to make your marriage a happy one for you AND her.

I can empathize with you to some degree. Everyone deserves happiness. I, myself, left my marriage. However, it was an abusive relationship and I took my kids with me. It was a matter of emotional survival for me and my children

No one can tell you what to do. In the end it's your life and your decision.
Just think long and hard before you make it. Once you do, there is no going back.

Diana
xoxo

Well said.

 

[massman]

You seem to be putting all the blame on your wife for your discontent in your marriage. Are YOU doing everything you can to bring the spark back into your marriage? If you really love her you will do everything possible to make your marriage a happy one for you AND her.

This is the problem, I've tried everything I know how. I am a good guy. I provide VERY WELL for my wife and family. I am even romantic at times! I have tried, but the bottom line here is that our expectations from the relationship are different here. My SO has more or less said as much. SHe wants me to be happy, but seems unwilling to change anything in order for that to happen. I know there is probably more I could do - but I've tried a lot and I'm getting tired. I know somone who put up with a bad marriage for decades for the sake of kids, and now in his 60's is miserable and feels like he's missed out on something in life. My relationship is not as bad as his, but I'm worried that itsll head there too. I gues it is up to me to stop that and try to make things better. I'm just not confident that it can be done.

As I said, reality is, I will just chalk this most recent experience up as a great, but transient one. Mykids mean to much, and as for the other woman, the situation is tearing her apart - and I can't let that happen either. I will let things cool off for a bit. Sober up so to speak. Teh problem is now I am comparing everything in my "real life" to that amazing experience. It is ridiculous and unfair but I can't help it.

When I posted this I half expected to get flamed left and right. All of you have made very helpful, insightful comments, that have helped to put things in perspective.

Cheers.

 

[Meister]

It basically comes down to these 2 choices for most guys:
- be with your kids, financially stable, no sex, no passion marriage
or get out and:
- passion, freedom, live in a basement apartment, fighting to see your kids

In short, married guys are fucked.

 

[ladez1st]

My SO is a great person in so many ways, but she is happy wiht the current situation, I am not. DOn't get me wrong, I can probably live with it. I have been up until now, and will likely continue to do so .

Sounds to me like you've been unhappy in your "real life" for some time now. But apparently, not unhappy enough to leave it without the prospect of something better to fall into. Unless you're prepared to leave it all behind "cold turkey" and establish a new life on your own, you are only trading the comfort and security of one family situation for the promise of another. You should define a new life for yourself first; then consider committing to a new long term relationship. Granted, it's not the easiest way out, but that's the point... it shouldn't be. Too much is at stake. You've got to want out real bad to jump without a safety net. Good Luck.

 

[CapitalGuy]

massman - how do you know your wife doesn't have a boyfriend of her own?

 

[massman]

massman - how do you know your wife doesn't have a boyfriend of her own?

not sure exactly how relevant this is, but the short answer isthat im not. long answer is Im pretty damn sure she doesnt.'

As for needing a safety net, not true. Im a person who 9s happy to be alone, and Im not sticking in this walt9ng for abetter option towalk alonG. I stic it out cuz I really dont want to devastate the others 9nvolved. But Im just worried that at some point, my happiness suffers.

 

[zekestone]

not sure exactly how relevant this is, but the short answer isthat im not. long answer is Im pretty damn sure she doesnt.'

As for needing a safety net, not true. Im a person who 9s happy to be alone, and Im not sticking in this walt9ng for abetter option towalk alonG. I stic it out cuz I really dont want to devastate the others 9nvolved. But Im just worried that at some point, my happiness suffers.

How come some of your "I"s are "9"s?

 

[massman]

How come some of your "I"s are "9"s?

Typing on iPAQ. lost stylus.

 

[ladez1st]

I don't know, I still think you have to deal with your unhappiness with your current relationship first. Until you reconcile that situation you are emotionally vulnerable to any romantic possibility. Love is blind. Surrogate love is "blinder".

I think an early suggestion in this thread to seek counseling is your best advice. You need to talk to a neutral third-party.