Israeli court convicts 14 year old arab boy of attempted murder

[Frankfooter]

Yes, they are terrorists. Simple enough?

Of course, if you attack civilians you should be labelled as a terrorist.
Now we have confirmed that there are terrorist groups operating in the settlements, which puts them morally on equal foot with Hamas.

Armed settlers who attack Palestinian villages are confirmed as terrorists.
Add to that the militant settlers who are part of CSC's, paid and armed by the IDF. Those settlers are also not civilians.

How is a Palestinian to tell the difference between a typical illegal squatter, a settler terrorist and a settler militant now?

 

[fuji]

Are you not the person who said on this board that despots always say that terrible things will happen if their iron fisted rule is removed?

And that's exactly why I support Israeli democracy over Palestinian terrorists. Democracy must prevail over evil like Hamas.

As yes, the Palestinian terrorists have been waging war on freedom and equality since their 1947 attack on Jews. Ever since then they have opposed democracy and freedom by trying to destroy the only democracy in the middle east, the only M.E. nation that gives equal rights to both Jews and Arabs.

Palestinians turned Gaza into a terrorist enclave and the occupation is the only thing saving the West Bank from the same fate.

It would be nice if the Palestinians could throw off the Hamas and Fatah tyranny but until they do that violent aggression needs to be contained.

 

[fuji]

Israeli war crime:

"Protected persons accused of offences shall be detained in the occupied country, and if convicted they shall serve their sentences therein. They shall, if possible, be separated from other detainees and shall enjoy conditions of food and hygiene which will be sufficient to keep them in good health, and which will be at least equal to those obtaining in prisons in the occupied country."

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/appl...t&documentId=076982CDB0849904C12563CD0051BFFD

This applies:

"Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased."

It would be unsafe to operate prisons in areas that could easily be attacked by Palestinian terrorists. Doing so would expose prisoners and guards to undue danger from the violent Palestinians who make the occupation necessary. It's thus necessarily for the safety is the detainees.

 

[basketcase]

...Those settlers are also not civilians....

They clearly are. B'Tselem agrees with me. The only valid targets are settlers actively engaged in attacks and the first option in those cases is arrest if possible.

Of course when Palestinians routinely attacks cars and public transit in the West Bank you consider them peaceful protesters and not the terrorist acts they clearly are. You have even gone so far as to say it's a crime when Palestinians were killed in the act of attacking Israeli civilians.

p.s. Your stance is an amusing one considering the number of times you have tried to claim Hamas are not terrorists.

 

[basketcase]

Are you not the person who said on this board that despots always say that terrible things will happen if their iron fisted rule is removed?

And I'm sure you are not concerned by the actual iron fisted rule of the PA or Hamas.

 

[Frankfooter]

They clearly are. B'Tselem agrees with me.

Tell me where B'teselem states that settlers working as CSC's, as in paid, trained and armed by the IDF, are civilians.
Because you know you are full of shit with this claim, don't you?

 

[fuji]

Tell me where B'teselem states that settlers working as CSC's, as in paid, trained and armed by the IDF, are civilians.
Because you know you are full of shit with this claim, don't you?

Civilian guards, police, etc, are civilian.

 

[basketcase]

Tell me where B'teselem states that settlers working as CSC's, as in paid, trained and armed by the IDF, are civilians.
Because you know you are full of shit with this claim, don't you?

It's amazing that you consider security guards to be military targets but argue that Palestinian attackers are civilians. Even you must know how idiotic and immoral your claims are.


p.s. Direct from the ICRC are the criteria that describes when civilians can lose the right to protection. Being a security guard is not on there.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule6

 

[Frankfooter]

It's amazing that you consider security guards to be military targets but argue that Palestinian attackers are civilians. Even you must know how idiotic and immoral your claims are.


p.s. Direct from the ICRC are the criteria that describes when civilians can lose the right to protection. Being a security guard is not on there.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule6

Calling someone armed, trained and paid by the military a 'security guard' doesn't make them a security guard.
Nice try.

CSC's are militants.

Israel's other army expanding illegal settlements
Rights group cites abuses of power by Israel's Civilian Security Coordinators in the occupied West Bank.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/10/israel-army-expanding-illegal-settlements-161012071618171.html

And:

However, according to Yesh Din's chronology and analysis, the Israeli military's declared goal of employing CSCs to protect Israeli civilians conceals a more important function the CSCs serve: expanding Israel's borders.

"Not only do they [CSCs] harass these Palestinian farmers, but they also seek to expand the areas under their control and annex as much of that land as possible," Pasovsky told Al Jazeera.

According to Yesh Din, the concept of a CSC was initially conceived by Zionist forces during the British Mandate, through a doctrine of "regional defence" that relied on civilians in frontline communities to fight in support of armed forces in demarcating the borders of the future state.

The regional defence approach was formalised by Israeli law in 1961 and later applied in illegal settlements in the West Bank - four years after Israel illegally occupied the area - through a military order stipulating that CSCs take position in the 12 settlements that had been constructed by 1971.

The 1971 order loosely defined CSC powers for protecting settlements and remains in effect today. A number of military orders have been issued since, specifying their exact policing powers and guarding zones.

They are governed by military orders.

 

[fuji]

Calling someone armed, trained and paid by the military a 'security guard' doesn't make them a security guard.
Nice try.

CSC's are militants.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/10/israel-army-expanding-illegal-settlements-161012071618171.html

And:


They are governed by military orders.

Civilian guards and police are civilians. Attacking them is a war crime. Everyone in the West Bank is "governed by militarily orders" including Abbas and the Palestinian Authority so that's a dumb argument.

 

[basketcase]

Calling someone armed, trained and paid by the military a 'security guard' doesn't make them a security guard.....

Pretending that they aren't civilians shows you have no morals. I gave you the official ICRC view of what compromises civilian status but all you do is continue to make excuses for Palestinian terrorism.

 

[Frankfooter]

Pretending that they aren't civilians shows you have no morals. I gave you the official ICRC view of what compromises civilian status but all you do is continue to make excuses for Palestinian terrorism.

And that ICRC states:

The civilian population consists of all persons not belonging to one or other of the following categories:
(a) Members of the armed forces, or of their auxiliary or complementary organizations.

CSC's are an auxiliary group, paid, trained and armed by the IDF.
Which according to your terms, makes them not civilians.

 

[Liminal]

It's amazing that you consider security guards to be military targets but argue that Palestinian attackers are civilians. Even you must know how idiotic and immoral your claims are.


p.s. Direct from the ICRC are the criteria that describes when civilians can lose the right to protection. Being a security guard is not on there.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule6

Who said they are civilians? They are an armed militia working in concert with the military occupier.

Free m your own source:

Delhi Draft Rules states:
The civilian population consists of all persons not belonging to one or other of the following categories:
(a) Members of the armed forces, or of their auxiliary or complementary organizations.
(b) Persons who do not belong to the forces referred to above, but nevertheless take part in the fighting.

These armed militants certainly qualify as those not defined as civilians.

 

[basketcase]

...
CSC's are an auxiliary group, paid, trained and armed by the IDF.
Which according to your terms, makes them not civilians.

Bullshit. You and Al Jazeera may pretend that settlers are military but the ICRC refutes that.

Even the ICC which you keep saying you support refutes your claims.

" However, loss of protection is only clear when a civilian uses weapons or other means to commit violence against human or material enemy forces, unless in self-defense."

Guarding their homes is clearly self defense.


Source is the same ICRC link I previously gave.

 

[basketcase]

Who said they are civilians?...

You mean other than the Geneva Conventions and the ICC?

 

[fuji]

Who said they are civilians? They are an armed militia working in concert with the military occupier.

Free m your own source:

Delhi Draft Rules states:
The civilian population consists of all persons not belonging to one or other of the following categories:
(a) Members of the armed forces, or of their auxiliary or complementary organizations.
(b) Persons who do not belong to the forces referred to above, but nevertheless take part in the fighting.

These armed militants certainly qualify as those not defined as civilians.

You are wrong. Police and civilian security guards are not considered to be members of the military nor auxiliary nor complementary organizations. Unless they actively participate in fighting they are civilian.

 

[Liminal]

You mean other than the Geneva Conventions and the ICC?

Your own source confirms they are not civilians. But, they are ethnic cleansers....chasing Palestinians off their lands in order to expand illegal settlements at gunpoint.

 

[fuji]

Your own source confirms they are not civilians. But, they are ethnic cleansers....chasing Palestinians off their lands in order to expand illegal settlements at gunpoint m

You can't just make shit up. That's called lying.

 

[Liminal]

You can't just make shit up. That's called lying.

No, that's called reflecting what's in the reporting by Al Jazeera.

 

[basketcase]

Your own source confirms they are not civilians. But, they are ethnic cleansers....chasing Palestinians off their lands in order to expand illegal settlements at gunpoint.

Wow you are absolutely ridiculous. The Geneva conventions and the ICC clearly make my case. Security guards are not combatants.

All you have is a bunch of hysterically emotional language that fails to meet reality.