Israel

[tompeepin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel

The first one to break then is the oil cartel, 35 a barrel and still they cut production. I guess we didn't go to Iraq for the oil after all......
OTB

Yeah, what is taking you so long? Start pumping the Iraqi oil man! Oh I guess it is a long term stratagy. It is a slow process to switch from Saudi Arabia to Iraq. The Iraqis have to stop blowing you guys up first. But be patient you will get what you want. And do you think that the owners of the Texas oil fields want low retail or less than 35 a barrel?

But back to Israel, I haven’t read too many objections, and given my past post history that surprises me. If we can agree why can't the powers that be make it happen.
OTB

We all agree, because it is not we who are living their experience. We do not have to make concessions. Who would give their land/house back to the aboriginal American? Why not start making restitution payments to the blacks for slavery? How long would people be willing to pay to assist Palestinians (case in point the good papa) when they aren’t willing to even afford less than 1% of western GDP for the fatally poor in the 3rd world?

Most improtantly, like you said before, because they have leaders and a minority who fuck it up for everybody else. And like I said: Sounds familiar!

Self-interest that is why; and don't doubt it, the bottom line is you and me are both primarily self-interested as well.

 

[Perry Mason]

Is it me or was it a resolution by the League of Nations that created Isreal???

It was the United Nations that decided on partition to resolve the conundrum created by Britain and France after the break up of the Ottoman empire at the conclusion of World War I.

Britain had earlier promised both Jews and Palestinians a home in these lands and, on partition, it was a small step for Jews to begin to insist that the home of the Jewish people should be a sectarian, Jewish state. Prior to that time it was talked about, but it was not an integral part of the Zionist agenda. The aftermath of Hitler and the Holocaust made that idea seem even more persuasive and attractive... but it was also the seed for many, if not most, of the present problems.

Perry

 

[papasmerf]

It was the United Nations that decided on partition to resolve the conundrum created by Britain and France after the break up of the Ottoman empire at the conclusion of World War I.

Britain had earlier promised both Jews and Palestinians a home in these lands and, on partition, it was a small step for Jews to begin to insist that the home of the Jewish people should be a sectarian, Jewish state. Prior to that time it was talked about, but it was not an integral part of the Zionist agenda. The aftermath of Hitler and the Holocaust made that idea seem even more persuasive and attractive... but it was also the seed for many, if not most, of the present problems.

Perry

So ummmmmmmm what do this have to do with a Catholic boy in Buffalo???????

Sounds to me like it be a thing that be best shared by all members of the LEAGUE of NATIONS not me

 

[tompeepin]

... shared by all members of the LEAGUE of NATIONS not me

Err ... LEAGUE of NATIONS / United Nations ... member ... USA = papasmerf ... has a share of responsibility, thus a share of debt!

All this is a little too much for you Huh? I know that you like to start shit and then run away from the responsibilities ...

 

[papasmerf]

Err ... LEAGUE of NATIONS / United Nations ... member ... USA = papasmerf ... has a share of responsibility, thus a share of debt!

All this is a little too much for you Huh? I know that you like to start shit and then run away from the responsibilities ...

sorry bud
the share is not equal to t LIONS SHARE

 

[tompeepin]

sorry bud
the share is not equal to t LIONS SHARE

From nothing to a lion's share for the poor papa. What is that; a new math you are inventing?

Though I must express my appreciation to you papa, your insight always provokes a good laugh! Thanks!

 

[*d*]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel

But back to Israel, I haven’t read too many objections, and given my past post history that surprises me. If we can agree why can't the powers that be make it happen.

OTB

As usual, the 'powers that be' have other plans. And its the US again.
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/411068.html
"The United States will assure Israel that it will not have to withdraw to the Green Line('67 borders) in a future permanent settlement with the Palestinians.
The promise appears in a letter of guarantees drafted by the American administration in exchange for Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan."

 

[Ross Eyerie]

I have a great idea!

It's very simple... just let the Palestinians run the casinos!

It's cooled off the Indians here in North America....

 

[WhaWhaWha]

Originally posted by onthebottom
· Use of 1967 boarders
· Palestinians would be provided a State that includes the West Bank, Gaza Strip and pre-1967 portion of Jerusalem.
· Palestinians would forgo any right of return
· The E.U., Israel and US would split equally a payment to Arab families that were displaced in 1946 to compensate them for forgoing their right of return
All I can say to these is "that'll be the day"

· Arab nations would sign a treaty with Israel stating it’s right to exist.
· All Jewish settlers would have the right to move to Israel or become citizens of Palestine (or whatever the new State was called)
So the Arabs would be giving jews permission to exist? How farking generous of them. Are they allowed to breathe air and drink water or do they need permission for that too?


· The UN would police the boarders between the states with Blue-Helmets for a period of 10 years.
Given their position, I wouldnt trust them to remain neutral. The rest of Israel would be demolished in less than 10 years while the UN defends the PLO's right to make it happen and everyone knows it.

 

[ocean976124]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel

As usual, the 'powers that be' have other plans. And its the US again.
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/411068.html
"The United States will assure Israel that it will not have to withdraw to the Green Line('67 borders) in a future permanent settlement with the Palestinians.
The promise appears in a letter of guarantees drafted by the American administration in exchange for Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan."

At this point Israel will never give up Jerusalem...

 

[onthebottom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel

As usual, the 'powers that be' have other plans. And its the US again.
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/411068.html
"The United States will assure Israel that it will not have to withdraw to the Green Line('67 borders) in a future permanent settlement with the Palestinians.
The promise appears in a letter of guarantees drafted by the American administration in exchange for Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan."

Some how I knew that *d* couldn't let a single world issue thread go without blaming the US. Sharon will ask for that, but he won't be getting it. US news agencies (NPR yesterday morning for instance) have reported as much. You took propaganda from a pro Israeli site and used it as fact.

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel

At this point Israel will never give up Jerusalem...

Never is a long time, they at least need to share it.

OTB

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

Re: I have a great idea!

It's very simple... just let the Palestinians run the casinos!

It's cooled off the Indians here in North America....

ROFL!

 

[onthebottom]

Re: Re: Israel

Originally posted by onthebottom
· Use of 1967 boarders
· Palestinians would be provided a State that includes the West Bank, Gaza Strip and pre-1967 portion of Jerusalem.
· Palestinians would forgo any right of return
· The E.U., Israel and US would split equally a payment to Arab families that were displaced in 1946 to compensate them for forgoing their right of return
All I can say to these is "that'll be the day"

And why is that, why is a just resolution so hard to envision?

· Arab nations would sign a treaty with Israel stating it’s right to exist.
· All Jewish settlers would have the right to move to Israel or become citizens of Palestine (or whatever the new State was called)
So the Arabs would be giving jews permission to exist? How farking generous of them. Are they allowed to breathe air and drink water or do they need permission for that too?[/B]

It would be an admission that the Jewish state was permanent and it's existence would no longer be a policy of those Arab countries. Your sarcasm is noted but not very useful.

· The UN would police the boarders between the states with Blue-Helmets for a period of 10 years.
Given their position, I wouldnt trust them to remain neutral. The rest of Israel would be demolished in less than 10 years while the UN defends the PLO's right to make it happen and everyone knows it.

No, everyone does not know it but thanks for sharing your paranoia with us. The US is a member of the UN, the only really significant member from a military standpoint, where the US is involved Israel would never have a concern - and everyone knows it.

Open your mind.

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

Err ... LEAGUE of NATIONS / United Nations ... member ... USA = papasmerf ... has a share of responsibility, thus a share of debt!

All this is a little too much for you Huh? I know that you like to start shit and then run away from the responsibilities ...

Papa, Tompeepin,

I think the US has a moral obligation to lead on this issue, because we are in the unique position to do so. I also think we have a moral obligation to provide financial support, again because we can afford it and secondly to shame others into helping. The best example I can remember of a cheap nation was Canada giving less to Iraqi reconstruction than Vietnam and then complaining they couldn't participate in the reconstruction spending of US TAXPAYERS - unbelievably self centered.

I guess that’s what tompeepin is referring to when he talks about countries acting in their self-interest, which is correct. I just believe it’s in our self-interest to see a just resolution to the Palestinian – Israel issue.

OTB

 

[brualex33]

With all do respect, there is no one on the Palestinian side to make peace with. They want the destruction of Israel and other Arab countries keep the issue alive to deflect attention from their own internal policies. Israel has proven it wants peace- treaties with Egypt and Jordon.

 

[Perry Mason]

With all do respect, there is no one on the Palestinian side to make peace with.

That is not true!

It may not be Arafat or Hamas, but it isn't Sharon or the Israeli right wing, either.

Perry

 

[ocean976124]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel

Never is a long time, they at least need to share it.

OTB

I know never is a long time, but I have a hard time believing Israel would surrender Jerusalem. For them its the center of their ethnic identity and it would be a great humiliation to have to give it up.

 

[Perry Mason]

I know never is a long time, but I have a hard time believing Israel would surrender Jerusalem. For them its the center of their ethnic identity and it would be a great humiliation to have to give it up.

Yes, but for different reasosn, it is much the same on the Arab/Palestinian side!

And to most Jews, the Arab/Palestinian side of it is as unjust as the Jewish position seems to the Arab/Palestinian side. "Ay, there's the rub..."

That, I think, is why the only solution is to share it... which is a part of a one state solution.

Perry

 

[*d*]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel

Some how I knew that *d* couldn't let a single world issue thread go without blaming the US. Sharon will ask for that, but he won't be getting it. US news agencies (NPR yesterday morning for instance) have reported as much. You took propaganda from a pro Israeli site and used it as fact.

OTB

Al jazeerah and other news centres are now picking up on the story.
Plus, Sharon is not just asking for this. Its what the US diplomatic delegation is proposing to Sharon, on the condition that Israel start implementing disengagement from Gaza by next summer. The proposed 'letter of guarantees' (refugee repatriation & Israeli control of the West Bank settlement blocs)will be finalized mid April.
I will admit that this US 'letter of guarantees' is written vaguely and unspecific. And it's not unusual for the US to present documents that mislead.