Israel at war

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Unintelligent, naive, not factual, redundant and not worthy of a response.
But you couldn't resist.

I will answer your question though: Hamas should keep fighting as long as Israel keeps mass murdering, genociding and subjecting Palestinians to apartheid and oppression. There is nothing else Hamas can do. Accepting the status quo is unfortunately not an option.

Now since you are such a stand up guy, answer my question. And it is an either or type of question as well: At this point, after 75 years, do you think Israel should continue their apartheid, mass murder, oppression and land stealing or reverse course, change policy and address root causes of the conflict and work for Palestinian sovereignty instead?
[/QUOTE]That's like asking, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Ask me an honest question that is not based on lies and I'll give you an honest answer.

BTW, when is the last time/how many times has Hamas formally asked for diplomatic talks (to be moderated by mutually agreed upon countries) to try to resolve their grievances instead of launching rocket and terror attacks?

Civilized, truly peace loving people always have that option. So yes, there are things they can do beside launching terrorist attacks. Neutral terrorist attacks, obviously.

p.s. You corrected me on the spelling of Gandhi, so:

Genocide is a noun, not a verb.
 
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basketcase

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...

As I said, use covert operations. I do not have to define how. ...
Because you know it essentially can not be done except in rare occasions where Hamas screws up and info somehow gets back to israel.

Where have they said it is a temporary measure?
They are clear that if they met every Palestinian demand they refuse accept a Jewish presence.

In their 2017 policy document, they do have a line about the '67 lines but it is surrounded by:
  • The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah
  • There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, judaisation or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.
  • Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea.
  • Hamas rejects all the agreements, initiatives and settlement projects that are aimed at undermining the Palestinian cause and the rights of our Palestinian people. In this regard, any stance, initiative or political programme must not in any way violate these rights and should not contravene them or contradict them.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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If there were no resistance they would not have been moving at the current pace, you are contradicting yourself.
Its simple, war is expensive, israel is small. If they could they would want to finish this in two weeks, which is what i think their original plan was.
They could have if they had done all the things they've been accused of like: carpet bombing, bombing indiscriminately, targetting civilians, targetting hospitals and schools that weren't Hamas enclaves, flooding every tunnel, burning Gazans alive, deceiving civilians as to where the safer places to stay were, not sending flyers showing the civilians which routes that Israel has secured for them to use, using nukes like frank suggested. Those would have all sped up proceedings.

Yes, they could have done it faster. Thanks for helping me point out the ways that, even though it's taking them more time, they have tried to spare as many Palestinian lives as possible. You have helped point out how difficult the task was with Hamas using as many human shields as they could. It's virtually impossible but Israel is taking precautions that are unprecedented in wartime to try to save lives.

Thank you zsyd, you have provided an invaluable service to the people reading this thread and looking for some truth. Shalom.
 

basketcase

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As it is always the case, with Israel, their offers are always disingenuous. Olmert offered the deal but did not allow Abbas to study the map. He had to accept it "immediately". Who in this conflict will accept an offer from either side "immediately"? What an idiotic proposition.
...
As always excuses and blaming Israel.

First, Abbas was allowed to study the map, he wasn't allowed to take a copy with him. Second, he had months where he could have offered his own map if he was actually interested.

He later stated that he rejected it because Israel wasn't allowing all refugees and their descendants into Israel which is disingenuous considering only a small percentage of the want to become Israeli. the real reason is he's spent his life promising the elimination of Israel and doing a 180 would destroy his power base (and profit center).
 

basketcase

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If there were no resistance they would not have been moving at the current pace, you are contradicting yourself.
Its simple, war is expensive, israel is small. If they could they would want to finish this in two weeks, which is what i think their original plan was.
Yes, Hamas fighters dressed as civilians popping out of tunnels to attack IDF troops and boobytrapping buildings is slowing them down, forcing them to investigate and search every possible structure.

And before you accuse me of lying, go check out the Hamas telegram channels and watch the videos they post.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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The Status Quo is just a less intense version of what is happening now Not anything significantly different.
Just a tad less. Just sped it up by about 20 years. Hamas are the ones that put the pedal to the metal. It's like a drive-through now. Let as many die in a few months that could have taken over 20 years. (Or would never have happened) No big deal to you.

Your justifications keep getting weirder and weirder and lamer and lamer. Do you proofread before you post?

It wouldn't make a difference whether the Palestinians fought non-violently or violently - the Israelis will slaughter them.
There's that neutral racism and neutral hate speech being exposed again. Who could possibly be more neutral? Maybe Sinwar.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Yes the only neutral position is being pro-Palestinian and anti-terrorism.
You are anti-terror yet support Hamas attacking on Oct. 7. It was smart.
You are a fraud by making conflicting statements like that.

Being pro-Israel simply means, you support genocide, and are in defence of a toxic, non-inclusive ideology like Zionism.
Racism and hate speech, but the neutral kind.

Being pro-Palestinian means you want the actual victims in this conflict to get justice.
Oh, I think Hamas is getting a heavy dose of well earned justice. Be careful what you wish for.

No I don't want Hamas to surrender, as of now. I want them to do one of two things
With an answer like that, it sounds like you only want 1 thing. You want to see more civilians die, because that is what will happen unless and until Hamas surrenders. frank wants 500,000 to die. How many are you cheering for?

You say not yet? Then when?

- a) Fight the Israelis, but only the IDF.
Just like they did on Oct. 7. Now I understand

The only time I would support surrender, is if Israel stops attacks
You've got that backward. You can support what you want but Israel will not stop until Hamas surrenders. That is reality. You are talking Bizarro. If Israel stops attacking Hamas, why would Hamas surrender? The only thing they understand is force.

and makes genuine attempts to work for Palestinian statehood. Kowtowing to colonialism,
As I keep saying, negotiations have to take place at some time.

It is not a matter of debate and your opinions on this does not matter. Their casualty counts are taken seriously by just about everyone, so as much as you hate it, there is nothing to be done. They are the standard.
I'm far from the only one here questioning the veracity of the stats that Hamas wants us to believe. Once again, it's only you and the KKK that lap up everything that Hamas dishes out yet question everything put out by Israel and the IDF even if documented by film evidence.

NEUTRALITY on display once again.

Again, matter of objective fact, as I proved with the actual numbers produced by the UN.
If they accepted the numbers, they'd state the same numbers. Not different ones.
But you just finished telling us how close the numbers were (what was it, 2%?) as proof of their numbers being independent. That was a quick 180. Maybe because I showed you that it proved the opposite. Propagandists would be shrewd enough to know to tweak the numbers a tad so they weren't exact.

First 2% were really close. Now 2% is a large enough disparity.

Man, I keep telling you that you need to proofread. Not for grammar, but for consistency in the neutral arguments you're (attempting yet failing) to put out.
 

Frankfooter

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you are saying it as if it's a bad thing!

PS - I see that the lesson was lost on you :) oh well
Its really kept Israel peaceful, hasn't it?
Now you just want wars with Gaza, the West Bank, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Iran.

Israel really is a danger to world peace.
Your post proves it, you show its policy.
 

Frankfooter

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This is also not complicated.
Please give us a list of all the countries in the world that give non-citizens the right to vote, let alone have ALL of the same rights as actual citizens.
Please give us a list of all the other apartheid countries where millions of indigenous people live under a rule where they are not given full human rights or citizenship.

How many other countries refuse to give the indigenous population citizenship?
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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you are saying it as if it's a bad thing!

PS - I see that the lesson was lost on you :) oh well
Its really kept Israel peaceful, hasn't it?
Now you just want wars with Gaza, the West Bank, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen and Iran.

Israel really is a danger to world peace.
Your post proves it, you show its policy.
Israeli defence minister outlines new phase in Gaza war (msn.com)


CAIRO/GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) -Defence Minister Yoav Gallant on Thursday outlined a new stage of Israel's war in Gaza: a more targeted approach in the north and further pursuit of Hamas leaders in the south while Israel seeks to free remaining hostages held by Hamas.

Under international pressure to shift to less intense combat operations and in the face of economic challenges, Israel has been drawing down its forces in Gaza to allow thousands of reservists to return to their jobs.
Gallant said in a statement that operations in the north would include raids, demolishing tunnels, air and ground strikes, and special forces operations.
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In the south, where most of Gaza's 2.3 million population now live in tents and other temporary shelters, the focus would be on wiping out Hamas leaders and rescuing some 130 Israeli hostages remaining of some 240 abducted on Oct. 7.
After the war Hamas would no longer control Gaza, Gallant said, adding that the enclave would be run by Palestinian bodies so long as there was no threat to Israel.

Aiming to help prevent the conflict from expanding, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken was set to travel on Thursday to the Middle East for a week of diplomacy, the State Department said.
Earlier on Thursday Israeli shelling of the Gaza Strip killed more than 20 Palestinians, including 16 in Khan Younis in a southern coastal area packed with people who had fled from other parts of the enclave, Gaza health officials said.
Among the dead were nine children, they said. Separately five Palestinians were killed in an Israeli airstrike on a car in Al-Nusseirat refugee camp, health officials told Reuters. Gaza residents said Israeli planes and tanks had also bombarded two other refugee camps, prompting many to head south.
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Israel's war against Hamas is nearing the three-month mark amid international concern that the conflict is spreading beyond Gaza, drawing in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, Hezbollah forces on the Lebanon-Israel border, and Red Sea shipping lanes.
The concern grew after a drone strike on Tuesday killed Hamas deputy leader Saleh al-Arouri in Lebanon's capital Beirut. He was buried in the Palestinian camp of Shatila in the city on Thursday, amid throngs of mourners launching volleys of gunfire.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah vowed on Wednesday that his powerful Iran-backed Shi'ite militia "cannot be silent" following the killing, but he made no concrete threats to act against Israel in support of Hamas.
Hezbollah has been embroiled in nearly daily exchanges of shelling with Israel across Lebanon's southern border since the Gaza war began.
Israel neither confirmed nor denied assassinating Arouri. It has promised to annihilate Hamas following the Islamist group's assault in southern Israel on Oct. 7 in which Israel says 1,200 people were killed.
Israel's ground and air blitz has laid waste to Gaza. The total recorded Palestinian death toll had reached 22,438 by Thursday - almost 1% of its 2.3 million population, the Gaza health ministry said.
Israel has said it has killed 8,000 fighters in Gaza.
Adding to the violence in the region, two explosions on Wednesday killed nearly 100 people during a memorial ceremony for the late Iranian General Qasem Soleimani at the cemetery in southeastern Iran where he is buried. The militant Sunni Muslim group Islamic State claimed responsibility.
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In Thursday's reported strike in Al-Mawasi on the western side of Khan Younis, Israeli shells landed near tents erected in the area by displaced people, health ministry officials said.
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Hezbollah affiliated civil defence member sprays water at a damaged site in the aftermath of what security sources said was an Israeli drone strike in Beirut's southern suburbs of Dahiyeh, Lebanon January 3, 2024. REUTERS/Mohamed Azakir© Thomson Reuters
Footage on Palestinian media showed several bodies wrapped in blankets inside a hospital morgue in Khan Younis.
"Nowhere is safe in Gaza. Wherever you go, there are strikes. In the country, next to the camps, in Al-Mawasi. There is no safe space," said Bahaa Abu Hatab, the brother of one of the dead.
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The Palestinian Red Crescent said its headquarters in Khan Younis was hit, killing one person and wounding others.
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In its daily briefing, the Israeli military said Israeli warplanes killed three Hamas militants who had tried to detonate explosive next to ground troops, and Israeli soldiers killed two more.
Later the military said soldiers had destroyed an underground military compound on the Gaza Strip coast with a weapons cache including mortars, grenades, and RPG missiles.

MUD ADDS TO MISERY
Israeli bombardments have flattened much of the densely populated enclave and created a humanitarian disaster. Most Gazans have been left homeless, with food shortages threatening famine.
On Thursday, people poured out of Al-Bureij, Al-Maghazi and Al-Nusseirat refugee camps following attacks, with some families riding on donkey carts loaded with mattresses, luggage and children. Rain has turned earth to mud, adding to the misery.
Over the course of the war, the Israeli military has expressed regret for civilian deaths but it accuses Hamas of operating in densely populated areas and using civilians as human shields, a charge the group denies.
So you're saying your claim they were days away from winning was a lie?

How many have to die do you think before Israel stops?
 
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