Please show me where I said "Chinese" kimonos. The dresses those girls were wearing were not kimonos and definitely not traditional.
Is this racist??
- Thread starter The LoLRus
- Start date
Please show me where I said "Chinese" kimonos. The dresses those girls were wearing were not kimonos and definitely not traditional.
stfu wigglee you've been on my ass since I joined.. get a life. I don't pay attention to trump because I find him idiotic and I don't support him so why would I waste a second of my day on him ?
You think these people really meant to be racist??!?!?!?! seriously that's laughable. It was to honor a song and they made their guests dress up that way. I don't see the issue. Its not like they were making fun of anyone - they were trying to promote something.
Fine line between ignorance and stupidity but obviously many comments in this thread clearly show both.
Perhaps you are correct - it might be a Hollywood stereotype. Or not. I've seen servers in Asian restaurants wear similar types of outfits. It may not be traditional but it could be considered a dress of that culture so wearing it wouldn't be a form of racism. If you happen to be correct and it's considered a mockery, then again, it seems like ignorance is the cause.
I think you've sadly managed to miss the point - it's not about intent. If I make a joke at a workplace, I'm making the joke to be funny. Meanwhile others might feel offended or uncomfortable. Did I mean to offend? Probably not, especially given the current climate. But I did offend which is the point and I'm still going to get in shit, right?
Dawn, you've clearly got a thick skin (which is a good thing because you can take a joke). However, just because you aren't offended, doesn't mean others who are Asian aren't. I know plenty of Asians who would be offended, even if it's just slightly. My understanding is that some Asian women get eye/facial surgery to correct the squinty eye look. Clearly, they see it as bad. So making fun of it might not go over so well.
I started my comment with " the asian themed party is no big deal" so we agree on that, but your ignorant comment about racism not really existing at all was idiotic and you still won't admit it... that is why I am on your ass. If you are that unaware of what is happening in society, then don't bother making absurd statements like you made when you wrote " I am saying the only reason racism exists is because people take jokes like this and call it racist. "
What part of Halloween do you think they want to censor? Is it the caricatures of racial stereotypes??
Here is a picture for you to study:
Here is a link <https://goo.gl/Zubw29>. It will help you develop a framework for racist caricatures, in particular Asian stereotypes. And remember these caricatures are not art or cultural pieces that emanate from within those communities.
I have this old oil painting by a vietnamese artist on my bedroom wall.You know: It is in a white woman's bedroom!!!!! I hope it's not racist!
I can let it go if you want to save this guy from me. Give me an offer!
[url=https://postimages.org/][/URL]
Not racist? It is actually a portrait painting.
EH is not a visual depiction of an ethnic group. You are making the wrong connection.
Yup (the ‘you’ bellow is not directed at you, wigglee).
1) The organizers got your attention, so good for them.
2) If you, like the OP, actually need to ask “Is this racist??” you may not be a racist yourself, but you are most definitely racially ignorant.
3) Being racist accidentally is still being racist. You may not be a racist, but you sure looked or sounded like one.
4) Laughing after hearing/seeing a racist joke may not necessarily make you a racist, but if you’re laughing at a group on a racialized trait, as opposed to with a group, you’re most definitely racist.
5) If you don’t like the media play this got, stop patronizing the echo-chambers you’re reading this kind of “news” in. You’ll find this kind of story is picked up a lot more frequently by the right. If you truly ‘don’t care’ why read?
6) If you feel increased awareness over racial insensitiveness and camera phones have infringed on your right to free expression without criticism, you’re almost definitely a racist, but may not know it or want it to be known. Get better as a person or embrace it. Richard Spencer did, and now look at him.
And most importantly...
7) Whether or not something is racially insensitive or ‘racist’ (etc) is not something you get any kind of ultimate ‘say’ on if you’re not a respected member of the community being racialized. At best, you/we (outsiders) can have an opinion on it.
This is tricky, as you can be a racialized community member and not take specific offence to something deemed insensitive or racist, but unless you’re able to effectively sway an entire community to abandon (or take up) a position on particular imagery, language or action(s), at-best you add a (possibly) credible voice to the conversation.
Either stop being a racist if you care what people who aren’t you think, or recognize there may occasionally be consequences for your mistakes. Learn from them and grow as a person.
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I NEVER said racism doesn't exist. I said they did not MEAN to be racist. I said IN MY OPINION ( I am allowed one its Canada , I know my freedom of speech laws) racism still exists because people take little events like this and deem them racist when that is not the INTENT. I know exactly what is going on in society. I know racism still exists - however its not as bad as it once was. Like I said people get offended so easily now and I was saying everyone needs to stop being so sensitive. It was a party theme FFS. They were not trying to be racist- they were promoting a song WHILE promoting the Asian culture ( by making people dress up.).
GollumTroll- The picture u have posted is not up & also if it is what I think it is - I have no interest or desire to look at it... I know what racism is. I don't need to be schooled on racism. Does it exist? YES,
was this event supposed to be racist? NO . Did society mark the event as racist because some people ( some who aren't even Asian!) deem it racist? YES . WHY ? because people are so sensitive and need to find something/ anything to complain about
DAWNLEE- thank you . I appreciate an actual Asian opinion on this thread.. It seems that most of the people on this thread who are offended are NOT even part of the Asian culture.. something I find laughable. Why would u get offended if it has nothing to do with u ???
It starting to dawn on me that on this site people cant even have a grown up discussion without people attacking you and trying to find every possible way to prove u wrong. We all have our opinions and they do differ. So if we disagree - then just disagree but no need trying to convince someone that they are wrong just because they don't agree with you.
You’re absolutely right in that everyone has a right to an opinion (thought, conscience and belief falls under article 9 of UNHR code), and in a more limited sense in Canada to express this opinion (section 2 of the Charter). But these same rights protect wigglee’s ability to criticize you.
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The rest isn’t directed at sweetiepieexo and is a general statement:
I’ll once again emphasize, being ignorant of your own inherent internalized racist / sexist / homophobic / xenophobic / transphobic / ageist / ableist / islamaphobic / anti-Semitic (etc.) values doesn’t protect you from the ability to be criticized in the same public space for having/sharing this ignorance with the world.
If the person in the original photo (and/or the photo editor), or the organizers/creators of the event were unaware of how insensitive this is/was, so be it... but ignorance doesn’t give you immunity from criticism if you’re choosing to publicize your own ignorance.
I often go back to cartoons like Family Guy, The Simpsons and South Park for this stuff.
The joke here is on Peter for being racist, not on the group he’s stereotyping. Family Guy may go a step further by drawing criticism to an increasingly over-sensitive society or to criticize the show and therefore the audience, but it does so at its own risk.
Similarly, Canadian jokes in South Park have always been less about taking Canadians down a notch for saying “aboot” and “eh” than it is a medium to draw attention to American society’s second easiest/laziest joke after “toilet humour” (dick and fart jokes), the stereotype. The joke is rarely if ever “on” Canada itself, but on the show/audience and/or society that chooses to laugh at the joke.
The Simpsons has tons of great examples of how jokes on racism (good) vs jokes on stereotypes (bad) work. When Hank Azaria was first asked to make Apu’s voice he pointed out the obvious racism in the stereotype. The original show runners were keenly aware of this, and attempted to balance one-dimensional stereotyped characters like Apu, wherein the joke was on him for having a funny accent and working in a convenience store, with characters like Dr. Hibbert and Homer’s friend Carl. These characters, if you’re wondering, fly in the face of traditional one-dimensional stereotypes, thus in the eyes of the original show runners, allowing them at the time to get away with marginalizing a character like Apu.
It didn’t take long for the world to recognize this hypocrisy of black men on the show being nuclear scientists, doctors and judges, while the show’s only Indian character is only ever seen working a minimum wage job, so they attempted to make this character at-least two dimensional by giving him a backstory, something they never actually did with the towns black characters over its 28 year run, because they didn’t have to, by not stereotyping them in their inception.
What this tells us is, at the time The Simpson’s was created, a stereotyped black character was a complete no-go. No shock in a society 40-years after MLK. But how could they get away with Apu? Because at the time Indians and SE Asian Americans had a very limited voice in society. Since then, we’ve gotten better at recognizing social injustice.
And we’re better because of it. Most of the time society improves when marginalized groups are given more recognition and therefore a voice in society.
Edgy humour is allowed in the era of woke, but it’s a perilous and ever-changing line that you choose to cross whenever you participate in public society.
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canada-man
Well-known member
Racism is based on intent,... if a comment or action involving race was intended to be derogatory,... it should be considered racism,... other wise,... it is NOT.
Being "insensitive" is not being racist,... if person of one race called another of a different race,... narrow minded,... that may be insensitive, but not racist.
The person in the photo did NOT intend to "publicise his ignorance",... how can a person choose to "publicise their ignorance",... that is illogical.
If a Caucasian appears to "publicise their ignorance" with no racist intent,... and a non Caucasian calls that person a racist,... who is the racist,... ???
"Insensitive",... are there any Canadians that are still sensitive about being called a Canuck,... ???
There are many Canadian caricatures,... if an Asian chooses to make himself up as a white RCMP officer,... is he now going to be accused of being a racist by white Canadians,... or is that being insensitive,... ???
canada-man
Well-known member
They wear those uniforms because that's it matches the restaurants theme. I've actually heard that some servers at Mandarin restaurants are Canadian born, yet speak with a broken English accent for some reason. I find that funny since Mandarin is the least Chinese restaurant you can go to.
I’m not too sure I quite understand your last example, but for the sake of the debate, I’d say if for a costume, you paint your skin a different colour, yea, you’re probably doing something that might ensure you’re called a racist, or at-least insentive. I’d definitely need to discipline if you if you came to work that day.
But dressing as a Mountie wouldn’t be a problem, especially since it’s historically a positive cultural icon despite occasional gentle ribbing at the expense of a character, not the Red Serge itself (Eric Idle on Monty Python, Dudley Do-Right...)
Remember - Canadians, and therefore Mounties are not a homegenous ‘race.’
In any event, Mounties have always been associated with positive stereotyping in western society and it tends to be the negative stereotypes that cause problems.
In my travels I’ve seen non-Canadians dress as Bob and Doug McKenzie or Deaner and Terry from Fubar, and I’m not sure why any Canadian important enough to listen to would ever take offence to that. Again, if you aren’t white and paint your face white and throw on a Deaner wig, you might face criticism. Too bad, so sad.
Painting your face brown and wearing an Apu costume would seem to put you in conflict as-well, since even though the intent of your costume may not necessarily be to mock a beloved Simpsons character or Indians in-general, since the character is a representation of a stereotype, you are in-effect mocking a racialized group.
I was out last year on Halloween with a black buddy wearing white-face makeup dressed as a cop. As it turns out, when the joke’s on you, outrage comes easy. It was his right to wear the makeup he did, and the blowback he got on social media when he posted photos was IMO warranted.
Innocuous or innocent intent doesn’t really allow for a free pass when impact warrants an apology. It’s easy to do. “I’m sorry. I didn’t know I shouldn’t do that, and now that I know, I won’t do it again.” How hard is that?
Maybe I’m less familiar with this story than you. Are you suggesting the organizers of the event were somehow forced to publish (to make available for public viewing / consumption) this advertisement? I had assumed they chose to do this.
If they chose to publish this advertisement, they did indeed publicize their own ignorance. Intent was without malice, impact obviously wasn’t nominal, or we wouldn’t be hearing about it.
I was at a bar last week wearing a shirt I’ve owned and worn in at least 30 countries over the past 10 years. Probably worn it 1,000 times or more. I’m a diver, and the sign for OK is pretty commonly flashed as part of underwater communication. I didn’t know this symbol has taken on a new meaning recently. I was approached in a bar by a person who took offence to me wearing it.
I apologized, thanked them for informing me, and have changed my behaviour (wearing that shirt) in most public spaces as a result. It wasn’t difficult for me to do any of this, and my life hasn’t changed at all, except now I look a bit less like a racist or racially insensitive person in public.
There’s nuance to this kind of response. I may not wear that shirt to the bar again, but I’ll certainly wear it around dive shops or on dive boats. It’s not like the dive community is abandoning this hand signal because a small group of racists recently appropriated and changed its meaning.
The swastica is still being carved into bhuddist temples, I saw one being carved yesterday. Do my bhuddist friends in Canada carve it into their front door? No, they generally don’t.
Interchanging “racially insensitive” for “racist” is a way to de-escalate difficult people and I use it almost every day, but operationally it’s the same thing. It’s literally the “PC-word” for “racist” in HR (human rights and Human Resources) these days.
I grew up competitively ski racing, so I’ve personally never taken offence to the term, as ‘the Crazy Canucks’ were personal heroes for me when growing up. I actually can’t think of a time I’ve heard it used as a slur. But, I suppose if the “intent” was to use it as a slur against Canadians (who aren’t a ‘race’) I might be.
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Your quote is like literally right above mine lol
Do you really need me to hold your hand
canada-man
Well-known member
the A ok symbol is not racist and i would not let anybody tell me what i can or cannot wear in public
