Is the USA in decline?

[kherg007]

I look at some of the characteristics of when the Roman Empire fell and its "play to the masses" The excesses' in the higher classes is what a lot of history references want to point at, but some critical scholars look at citizenship and pandering to the masses.
This was how the the ROMAN catholic church started as the new state religion of the Empire. The emperor saw many of his soldiers had Christian symbols on their shields for luck (not pagan) and decided this was the "new way forward" That's why the Pantheon is the oldest church, it was the first to be converted from use paganism to Christianity.
Secondly was citizenship. To be a "Citizen of Rome" carried a lot weight in the world. Many wanted it, and it was given out sparingly. It was a social currency that kept the other 95% of the population working to maintain the strength of Rome. Most Romans were Plebians (a social order with its own records and rules), while the equestrian, patrician or senatorial. Once Rome granted citizenship to almost everyone within the empire to placate conquered peoples and keep the masses happy, citizenship lost its value, and as the outside and colonial bodies grew strong and belligerent the decline became more rapid.

Today, the Biden/Democrats/US gov't is toying with the idea of blanket amnesty for illegal aliens and with that voting rights and if its not clear right now, perhaaps granting citizenship.

I see parallels in the nature of the empires, how hey grew, and they peaked, and now to watch how they fall.

Must be a citizen to vote. No way are illegals granted citizenship straight away. Never.
They might be given some legal visa. And, depending upon their behavior over the 5 or so years, they might become eligible for citizenship. It's not overly easy to do this in the USA. In Australia, gotta have valid PR for 3 years and be physically present in a bona fide address for 10 months/year for and no criminal record to be eligible.

There is some merit in your argument, however. But there is a portion of the public in the usa that is actively working against the rest of the country. That is making it difficult to govern, because if the people can't even agree on basic facts that is a recipe for trouble. .

 

[mandrill]

Short answer:....

"Decline" isn't a mystical, moral collapse sort of thing. It's hard fact exercise based on demographics / economic power / military power. The US is the richest, most military powerful (by far on both counts) country on the planet and is also the 3rd most populous. It has twice the GDP of China.

It's still the "American Century", folks.

 

[Frankfooter]

Short answer:....

"Decline" isn't a mystical, moral collapse sort of thing. It's hard fact exercise based on demographics / economic power / military power. The US is the richest, most military powerful (by far on both counts) country on the planet and is also the 3rd most populous. It has twice the GDP of China.

It's still the "American Century", folks.

Yet there are declines in all social metrics and China is closing the gap on wealth.
The Rome end of empire metaphors kind of cover it, big army, decaying democracy and infrastructure....

 

[mandrill]

Yet there are declines in all social metrics and China is closing the gap on wealth.
The Rome end of empire metaphors kind of cover it, big army, decaying democracy and infrastructure....

Apples and oranges.

Don't get me started on how Rome fell btw. I have lots to say about the Visigoths. LOTS!!!

 

[Insidious Von]

While shoveling food down his pie hole at Hey Meatball, Guy Fieri said something stupid. Isn't Canada lucky to have the USA as it's neighbour, I believe it's the other way around.

I recently read a report on Canada's RD funding, it seems our beleaguered PM has spent more on it than any Prime Minister since Louis St Laurent. When L-St-L was Prime Minister, Canada was one of the most technologically advanced nations on the planet. Maybe supposed dumbass Justin wants Canada to lead the way again? Canada is a world leader in carbon capture technology, Justin's legacy is dependent on whether Alberta goes along with it.

 

[Brill]

We shouldn’t measure a country’s greatness by its productivity and ability to destroy.
We’re all together on one planet and need to fix it or be extinct. Ironically, our extinction would solve climate change and hate.

 

[jalimon]

Short answer:....

"Decline" isn't a mystical, moral collapse sort of thing. It's hard fact exercise based on demographics / economic power / military power. The US is the richest, most military powerful (by far on both counts) country on the planet and is also the 3rd most populous. It has twice the GDP of China.

It's still the "American Century", folks.

The problem is not the wealth it's the distribution of the wealth. Not only is income inequality rising in the U.S., it is higher than in other advanced economies.

America is collapsing because it has a very large lower class piss poor people, middle class is shrinking and much of it could join lower class income if the economy regress just a little bit but the upper class is growing way too fast. The upper class simply does not share back enough anymore.

At some point when the population is tired of eating brioche they can start to rebel...

 

[Insidious Von]

America still has time to reform itself, depending on how many Qanon's get elected in 2022. After all there are worse places in the world.

 

[curr3n_c1000]

30 years ago, you'd get laughed at telling people you were a delivery boy.

Now, people are proud to say they deliver for Uber eats.

That's what Progress is called in America.

 

[mandrill]

The problem is not the wealth it's the distribution of the wealth. Not only is income inequality rising in the U.S., it is higher than in other advanced economies.
America is collapsing because it has a very large lower class piss poor people, middle class is shrinking and much of it could join lower class income if the economy regress just a little bit but the upper class is growing way too fast. The upper class simply does not share back enough anymore.
At some point when the population is tired of eating brioche they can start to rebel...

But the people who are starting to rebel believe that the Blacks and the Democrats are the ones who destroyed America. They still believe the right wing capitalism myth.

 

[toguy5252]

30 years ago, you'd get laughed at telling people you were a delivery boy.

Now, people are proud to say they deliver for Uber eats.

That's what Progress is called in America.

That is partly as a result of the failure of many administrations at every level and every party tom invest in education and science. Instead of investing in and building the economy of the future they have been stuck in the economy of the past. And coal is not the future.

 

[jalimon]

But the people who are starting to rebel believe that the Blacks and the Democrats are the ones who destroyed America. They still believe the right wing capitalism myth.

That's why I wrote in my first post. Racism and inequalities will sink America.

No matter how rich is the nation the power of numbers (as in group of population) wins.

 

[james t kirk]

The United States is currently in the midst of what has been accurately called a "cold civil war". Left vs. Right.

At least the first American Civil war was all about justice and equality. There was a reason - the ending of slavery.

This one is just about stupidity on both sides.

So yes, America is in decline. They had a good thing and they fucked it up.

 

[rhuarc29]

Feels like the world is in decline, honestly. We're facing some serious headwinds, and it doesn't seem like we're up to the challenge of solving problems of that scale.
Think about it. We have MASSIVE problems ahead of us, like climate change, overpopulation, depleting finite resources, unattainable housing costs, an aging population, unfunded obligations, and a ballooning debt.
But you know what gets attention? Whether or not we're using the proper pronouns and some unmarked graves from many decades ago.

 

[Insidious Von]

America under threat.

 

[silentkisser]

I won't count America out. As this video rightly pointed out, it bounced back after the 1970s where the economy was fucked up and they were reeling from Vietnam. If people like Bezos and Gates started to pay their fair share of taxes and Democrats can get legislation passed like the Green New Deal, I can see them having a strong rebound.

Obviously, they are bitterly divided across political lines, but I would also think they could potentially get back together. I think they need to cut out the cancer of Trumpism and all it stands for. But who knows.

I would also say that China has a great potential to implode. They need to keep that economy humming. If even 10% of their population gets pissed, they could see one hell of an uprising.

 

[y2kmark]

I look at some of the characteristics of when the Roman Empire fell and its "play to the masses" The excesses' in the higher classes is what a lot of history references want to point at, but some critical scholars look at citizenship and pandering to the masses.
This was how the the ROMAN catholic church started as the new state religion of the Empire. The emperor saw many of his soldiers had Christian symbols on their shields for luck (not pagan) and decided this was the "new way forward" That's why the Pantheon is the oldest church, it was the first to be converted from use paganism to Christianity.
Secondly was citizenship. To be a "Citizen of Rome" carried a lot weight in the world. Many wanted it, and it was given out sparingly. It was a social currency that kept the other 95% of the population working to maintain the strength of Rome. Most Romans were Plebians (a social order with its own records and rules), while the equestrian, patrician or senatorial. Once Rome granted citizenship to almost everyone within the empire to placate conquered peoples and keep the masses happy, citizenship lost its value, and as the outside and colonial bodies grew strong and belligerent the decline became more rapid.

Today, the Biden/Democrats/US gov't is toying with the idea of blanket amnesty for illegal aliens and with that voting rights and if its not clear right now, perhaaps granting citizenship.

I see parallels in the nature of the empires, how they grew, and they peaked, and now to watch how they fall.

Weak analogies for weak minds...

 

[y2kmark]

While shoveling food down his pie hole at Hey Meatball, Guy Fieri said something stupid. Isn't Canada lucky to have the USA as it's neighbour, I believe it's the other way around.

I recently read a report on Canada's RD funding, it seems our beleaguered PM has spent more on it than any Prime Minister since Louis St Laurent. When L-St-L was Prime Minister, Canada was one of the most technologically advanced nations on the planet. Maybe supposed dumbass Justin wants Canada to lead the way again? Canada is a world leader in carbon capture technology, Justin's legacy is dependent on whether Alberta goes along with it.

Carbon capture is a mirage, no real effect on global warming...

 

[Insidious Von]

Carbon capture is a mirage, no real effect on global warming...

I took a closer look at it, the problem with CCUS is economics not environmental. It can be part of the solution if humanity becomes more energy efficient. There's still a place for fossil fuels, but not the centerpiece of a future global strategy.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/no-clearer-if-carbon-capture-is-silver-bullet-or-mirage

 

[jeff2]

Actually, the USA was most powerful when racism and inequalities were at their peak.

You can say that women and minorities got the shorter end of the stick.
But you could also argue that economic inequalities between men were lower.
After Japan and Germany were bombed, U.S. got a huge head start because of the lack of competition.
Also, China was not even in the game at that point.