Is my friend an alcoholic???

[DonAngelo]

All you can do, if you choose to stick around is make sure not to enable her in any way and to let her know that you will support her is she decides to quit.

The true definition of an enabler in alcoholism is:

"The next player is the Enabler. He is helpful and a "Mr. Clean" who may be directed by his own anxiety and guilt to rescue his friend, the alcoholic, from his predicament. He wants to save the alcoholic from the immediate crisis and relieve him of the tension created by the crisis. In reality, this person may be meeting a need of his own, rather than that of the alcoholic. The Enabler may not realize what he is doing. The Enabler may be a male outside the family, perhaps a relative. Occasionally, a woman plays this role."

 

[TheNiteHwk]

As I mentioned before here are some links that may help. The first one Hazelden is IMO the foremost provider of recovery books and other materials. They also have a chain of world-renowned treatment centers. The second is a well-known treatment center here in Toronto. Bellwoods is not government sponsored though. It is a private clinic and very expensive. Both of these are centered in helping Alkies and Addicts to recover however also have lots of useful info for friends and relatives of Alkies. The third link is an entire listing of all the treatment centers in Ontario. Again its main focus is on the Alkie… but also has some info for others as well. Hope this helps.

http://www.hazelden.org/

www.bellwood.ca

www.dart.on.ca

P.S. another place here in Toronto with a very high success rate in helping alcoholics and their family and friends is:

www.cleanandsober.com

 

[Jade4u]

If it is something she does to enjoy in socializing who are we to judge. Lots of people enjoy thier drinks. The only problem would be if she could not stay away from it for a day or two. Similar to smoking people crave the nicoteine in their system. When this level drops the urge is stronger.

Lots of people also make having wine a social thing ie.. I knew a woman once that was extremely happy and very romantic with her husband who told me every single night at dinner they ate by candle light and always drank wine together with thier meals. This had just became routine for them. In my opinion this does not make them alcoholics. To me they were just love birds.

Also lots of people enjoy going to clubs/bars etc.. and it is a routine thing when in such establishments to have drinks. Hopefully they do not go every night that is is just something to do to have fun. In the end I would conclude that if she had to go without it, Would she be able to?

I also think as long as someone is not harming anyone else with thier way of life it should not matter. It is those that drink and obviously show harmful or violent ways that we should be concerned about.

 

[wop]

You cannot save her from herself

I still don't know why you are agonizing over this instead of looking for the door.
Do you think you can save her? Think again James, time to remove the shining armour and look after Numero Uno.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Stacy4u...

Sorry. I hasten to disagree. I am from an alcoholic family. I am an addict/alkie myself. I have been studying alcoholism since I was in Jr. High. Even before that. I agree that someone can have wine with dinner every night and that they are not alkies. Some can even be heavy drinkers and they are not alkies. The fact that someone only drinks every few days though does not disqualify him or her from being an alkie. Just because they can stay off it for a few days and don’t drink every day means nothing. There are different types of alkies. There are binge drinkers and maintenance drinkers. That is one of the most common misconceptions of alcoholism is that they have to drink every day etc. I wish the public were educated more about these things. When people who don’t really know (who unknowingly think they are doing the right thing) encourage people who are alkies that they are not… it only serves to enable them to be in denial longer and continue drinking. And for an Alkie to continue drinking it eventually kills them. Believe me I know. I lost two brothers, my sister and both parents as a direct or indirect result of alcoholism. So over the years I have done lots of research to understand alcoholism better and have made it my business to spread the word a bit and try to help others. From everything I have read so far about our fellow TERBites friend… I think she is showing more then enough signs

 

[langeweile]

I agree that she is in trouble, but if you studied alcoholics, you also know that there is only one person that can help her, herself.

Unless she is ready her chances of success are very slim. Sometimes intervention helps, but remember acceptance of the problem is the first step in recovery.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

12X12

In the 12x12 it tells us that it is possible to bring the bottom up for those who are barely alkies. Younger ones and the like. You no longer have to lose everything to recognize that you are alkie. Many with still two cars in the garage etc. have seen the light. I agree though. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force 'em to drink. Sometimes though it is possible to make them a bit thirsty. And sometimes that is so rewarding. Because recovery can become addictive in a sense too. One little lick of recovery and your drinking or drug use will never be the same again.

 

[langeweile]

Re: 12X12

In the 12x12 it tells us that it is possible to bring the bottom up for those who are barely alkies. Younger ones and the like. You no longer have to lose everything to recognize that you are alkie. Many with still two cars in the garage etc. have seen the light. I agree though. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force 'em to drink. Sometimes though it is possible to make them a bit thirsty. And sometimes that is so rewarding. Because recovery can become addictive in a sense too. One little lick of recovery and your drinking or drug use will never be the same again.

Well said...I hope she get's it. You are right, recovery is such a drug I have been high for thirteen years.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

I will never exchange my worse day clean for my best day high!

Love is a drug. I can't get enough.
Can't get it though, unless I give it away.

 

[JoyfulC]

At least you were able to see this -- she didn't hide it from you. Give her credit for that. She is what she is, and she's honest about it (even if she doesn't agree with you that it's a problem). Many of the people here on message boards such as this one are hiding something from people they get involved with -- you do realize that, right? Something that maybe other people would have a problem with.

I grew up terrified of alcohol and alcoholism because we had some really terribly disruptive alcoholics in our family. But all these years later, my husband and I find that we really, really enjoy drinking. So we do. Is it healthy? Probably not. But I do believe it can be done in a socially responsible way. I realize now that my relatives who were nasty alcoholics were just nasty people in general. They probably would have been just as ignorant, insulting and shit-disturbing stone cold sober.

Life's not perfect. If you look hard enough, you can find something wrong with anybody. Sometimes, you just have to appreciate a person for how they benefit your life, and be willing to accept some imperfections.

Good luck!

..c..

 

[conte]

Yes, she is.

 

[DonAngelo]

JK, I'm not an expert on this topic... They drink alone (so they feel no guilt - nobody sees)

Sorry Smiley27...the opposite is true. That moment when you start to drink alone and hide your drinking from others, you know that you have entered the highway to hell. Believe me, those are the loneliest moments a human being can feel.

 

[buckybruce]

Hey...know what? I'm having a drink right now...my 2nd one since I got home from work...and come to think of it, I've done this every day this week...but you know what?...I stop at two...and I hardly ever drink during the weekend...I just don't have a taste for it...and you know why?...because during the week I have a very stressful job, which, I'm beginning to hate...so a coupla of pops just takes some of the edge off...just like a valium...or a toke...and since I'm off the anti-depressents(which have lots of their own side effects, the doc's just don't tell you that) I actually feel better and have found it easier to maintain the discipline to excercise and to lose some weight.

One of the definations of an addiction is the pursuit of an activity(drinking, doing drugs, eating, sex, etc) to the exclusion of everything else. Drinking(or whatever) is not a morality question although some would try to make it so, and those who do not drink are not morally superior to those who do. Some of the ex-drinkers I know are addicted to recovery..they've just found another substitute for alcohol to abuse. If you ever been to an AA meeting you will never find a bigger crowd of rabid smokers, coffee drinkers, overeaters, and born again Christians anywere in the planet.

 

[DonAngelo]

If you ever been to an AA meeting you will never find a bigger crowd of rabid smokers, coffee drinkers, overeaters, and born again Christians anywere in the planet.

...the sad thing is that most of the programs for alcoholics are AA based. A true disease deserves a better solution than AA. In the year 2004 deprival should not be the final answer to alcoholism. My wish is, that AA stops surrendering to alcoholism and finally starts to fight for a cure!!!

 

[canucklehead]

My best friend is a fully functional alcoholic that works as a chef. When he is ready he will get help i hope but until then i just be a friend.

 

[langeweile]

...the sad thing is that most of the programs for alcoholics are AA based. A true disease deserves a better solution than AA. In the year 2004 deprival should not be the final answer to alcoholism. My wish is, that AA stops surrendering to alcoholism and finally starts to fight for a cure!!!

You have no idea what you talking about. AA is by far the most successful program to help people with addictions.
The estimated success rate is over 70%.
Looks like to me you are still out there. Come back my friend our door is always open.

 

[Tugger]

You have no idea what you talking about. AA is by far the most successful program to help people with addictions.
The estimated success rate is over 70%.
Looks like to me you are still out there. Come back my friend our door is always open.

langeweile,

Maybe you should work on your own program instead of two stepping.

Remember "Live and Let Live"

 

[langeweile]

langeweile,

Maybe you should work on your own program instead of two stepping.

Remember "Live and Let Live"

Point taken. Got a little carried away. Just rubs me the wrong way when people bad mouth something that saved my life.

 

[gala]

James, she's an alcoholic.

I think you should tell her how you feel about her--all of it. Maybe tell her if she quit the drinking you'd love to be with her, but you can't be there while she's drinking. Offer to support her as far as you can.

Probably having said that what you should do is every time she's drinking just leave for awhile--a week, a month, however long it takes for her to decide that getting her life (and you) back is worth quitting again. Really do it. The worst thing you can do is play "see if you can catch me drinking" games with her--if you feel she's not sincerely trying to quit, just go.

And really, this might mean it's over. She might not be ready to quit.

 

[JoyfulC]

Yep, and while he's at it, maybe he should show her this site and the 1327 (1.13 posts per day) posts he's made here.

If he's found someone who is fun to be with for the moment, maybe he should stop and consider that maybe he's not perfect himself -- and accept her for who she is.

Or, at the very least, give her the chance to see him for who he is. She obviously doesn't feel the need to hide her drinking from him. Has he been as honest about his participation here (and in this industry) with her?

..c..