I Want To Stop Seeing Escorts

[surferboy]

What's more, I am very close to my mother, my therapist is a woman, and many of my yoga coaches are women that I share a number of my fears and insecurities with.

Hey I appreciate the honesty & you seem like an intelligent & nice guy, but Christ your lucky you didn't grow up with a dad like mine. Saying stuff like the above(minus the mom part) would get you a kick in the vag... I mean bag

Stay away from working girls, strippers & the like they will make mince meat of you. E harmony was made for you bro, go embrace it & don't look back to the dark side!

 

[surferboy]

I haven't done my 1 rep max on flat bench in over 6 years, but at the time, when I was in worse shape than I am now (in terms of my mobility, and other factors), and when I weighed 185 pounds, it was 505 pounds.

I assume this is a calculated 1rm right? If not you out lifted the national powerlifting champ in the 83kg class 6 years ago by 50lbs or so...

 

[aj11]

I assume this is a calculated 1rm right? If not you out lifted the national powerlifting champ in the 83kg class 6 years ago by 50lbs or so...

5 plates and 5 pounds on each side (with a spotter). That's what I did in my mid-twenties. When I was 25 years old, I dead lifted 405 pounds for 14 reps (with straps and a belt). I have videos of me maxing out the leg press machine, and pushing with so much force, that the leg press machine would move forward by about a meter, after my set, and the gym staff had to help me slide it back (every time I did legs, because the leg press machine at the gym that I went to wasn't bolted to the ground). If you don't want to believe me, it's all good. Maybe I should have entered some Canadian power lifting contests, by the sounds of it though.

Some of my university buddies at Western were power lifters, and I sure as hell could out-lift some of them, despite my sub-par form in comparison to what I'm capable of today, technique-wise (due to much better core strength, hip mobility, etc.).

Furthermore, just because someone can do or has done something that you personally deem important, or that you aspire to do, or that you may not have the capacity to do, doesn't make it improbable or impossible, and that goes beyond lifting weights.

In any case, I'm not here to talk about my physical strength or appearance, for the most part, but I did reference my appearance and habits, so that the people in this forum would be aware of the fact that I'm not necessarily at a physical or aesthetic disadvantage when it comes to dating, and that most of my challenges are psychological.

At this point, I practice more yoga than I lift weights, and I don't care about lifting more weight than anyone else. The idea of trying to outdo other people in any areas of my life is completely pointless and nonsensical to me, and basically childish, but I did spend my 20s operating from the opposite paradigm -- I was very competitive and ego-driven, and it caused a great deal of suffering, and I'm still learning how to let go of, and consequently transcend that part of myself.

I'm still very strong, but these days, I would rather practice yoga or meditate than lift weights, as mobility, flexibility, psychological (and spiritual) equanimity, and recovering effectively are more important to me than raw strength -- and when it comes to lifting, I now only do one heavy full-body weight training circuit a week (where I hit my 10 rep max on compound exercises, followed by some HIIT).

When I was physically at my strongest, I was psychologically and spiritually at my weakest, and I was simply overcompensating -- I was trying to fill a void inside of me with my appearance, with lifting weights, with drugs, with partying, with people, with accomplishments, with performances, with prestige, etc. I was as strong as I say I was, because my self-esteem was that low, and because I was externally focused -- I had to be the strongest guy in the gym, I had to be jacked, because I was dead and terrified on the inside.

 

[surferboy]

5 plates and 5 pounds on each side (with a spotter). That's what I did in my mid-twenties. When I was 25 years old, I dead lifted 405 pounds for 14 reps (with straps and a belt). If you don't want to believe me, it's all good. Maybe I should have entered some Canadian power lifting contests, by the sound of it.

Some of my university buddies at Western were power lifters, and I sure as hell could out-lift some of them, despite my sub-par form in comparison to what I'm capable of today, technique-wise (due to much better core strength, hip mobility, etc.).

Furthermore, just because someone can do or has done something that you personally deem important, or that you aspire to do, or that you may not have the capacity to do, doesn't make it improbable or impossible, and that goes beyond lifting weights.

In any case, I'm not here to talk about my physical strength or appearance, for the most part, but I did reference my appearance and habits, so that the people in this forum would be aware of the fact that I'm not necessarily at a physical or aesthetic disadvantage when it comes to dating, and that most of my challenges are psychological.

At this point, I practice more yoga than I lift weights, and I don't care about lifting more weight than anyone else. The idea of trying to outdo other people in any areas of my life is completely pointless and nonsensical to me, and basically childish, but I did spend my 20s operating from the opposite paradigm -- I was very competitive and ego-driven, and it caused a great deal of suffering.

I'm still very strong, but these days, I would rather practice yoga or meditate than lift weights, mobility, flexibility, and psychological equanimity, and recovering effectively are more important to me than raw strength, and when it comes to lifting, I now only do one heavy full-body weight training circuit a week (where I hit my 10 rep max on compound exercises, followed by some HIIT).

Well you seem like a decent guy trying to kick a habit & look for something more in life & I applaud you for that. But I also have travelled the world, lived on the west coast & hung out by muscle beach. And let me tell you never seen a 185pounder bench 5 plates... 4 plates puts you in the elite of elite, 5 plates puts you in the record books. If anyone seen you lift five plates they'd be sending you to the Olympic training center lol. I'd believe it if you said you were 215-220lbs & even that would be effin amazing. Btw the deadlift is also very impressive. Was able to do 4 plates myself in my 20's, but less than half the reps :apologetic:

 

[aj11]

Well you seem like a decent guy trying to kick a habit & look for something more in life & I applaud you for that. But I also have travelled the world, lived on the west coast & hung out by muscle beach. And let me tell you never seen a 185pounder bench 5 plates... 4 plates puts you in the elite of elite, 5 plates puts you in the record books. If anyone seen you lift five plates they'd be sending you to the Olympic training center lol. I'd believe it if you said you were 215-220lbs & even that would be effin amazing. Btw the deadlift is also very impressive. Was able to do 4 plates myself in my 20's, but less than half the reps :apologetic:

It's all good -- we can agree to disagree.

In terms of being sent to the Olympics, only now do I have the mobility and technique to do any compound lifts with truly proper form. I didn't have proper technique in my 20s, though I'm sure that many people thought that I did, and solid Olympic lifters have incredible technique, and far more mobility than I do now.

 

[alwilm]

Hi aj,

The somatic experiencing can be a very effective approach but it isn't really the approach or the techniques that are important in therapy as it is the practitioner... you need to find someone who is willing to go into the dark and painful parts of your experience and hang in while you get through the grief... If you want a suggestion for a therapist who may be able to go there with you, just let me know.

My therapist definitely knows that I am in my head, far too much.

We will be starting Eye Movement Desensitization And Reprocessing (EMDR) soon (http://tinyurl.com/nnyv4t2), and I am also doing research on Somatic Experiencing (http://traumahealing.org), Holotropic Breathwork (http://tinyurl.com/gqj5dhr), and psychedelic therapy with 100% pure MDMA (and the help of a psychotherapist).

If you could please give me some more information on Gestalt therapy, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[aj11]

Hi aj,

The somatic experiencing can be a very effective approach but it isn't really the approach or the techniques that are important in therapy as it is the practitioner... you need to find someone who is willing to go into the dark and painful parts of your experience and hang in while you get through the grief... If you want a suggestion for a therapist who may be able to go there with you, just let me know.

I have heard good things about Somatic Experiencing, from a therapist in Colorado that I spoke to, a couple of weeks ago. I am still doing some research on it, and the other forms of therapy that I mentioned, and this book that discusses trauma and Somatic Experiencing has been very interesting, so far: https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Tiger-Healing-Peter-Levine/dp/155643233X.

My therapist knows me quite well, I have no secrets with her, we have been working together for a decade now, and I am looking forward to seeing what happens during our upcoming EMDR sessions.

However, I am open to other options, so if you could send me a message with your recommendation, that would be great.

 

[aj11]

Hi AJ - I read though the comment chain first, then went back to your original and cut out a few points. Now obviously, we've never met and I can only surmise what's troubling you, but I gather a lot of it comes from your perception of control. Now I'm in a line of work where control is a big deal. I'm used to planning, building contingencies when things go wrong, and generally going through life with a degree of manageable stress.

It seems that you may be attracted to escorts because you have a high degree of control going into the arrangement: The looks of your companion, the time, the price - and I'm guessing that you often make requests for particular outfits or lingerie to be worn. Once you meet, you're able to shut that portion of your brain off and give it a rest - you can escape into a controlled environment with an expected outcome and not have to worry about every detail. In essence, for whatever time you're together you're not anxious. However, once the "brief affair" is over... You're back to square one, and you probably feel worse about it because it's not what you want out of life. I don't think that you have a fear of intimacy...just a fear that the intimacy isn't going to be the summit of the mountain you're trying to conquer.

You're in a tough spot, because forward progress is going to involve releasing yourself from the predicable nature of your current path. You're going to need to have some unpredictable outcomes - women that may not call you back, despite you doing everything "right." People that don't like you, despite your looks, or your jokes, or any number of other qualities you have going for you. But that's not a bad thing, and you can't just look back at every event and wonder what YOU did wrong, or how YOU could have changed things for the better. Sometimes things just don't go your way, and there's no amount of analysis that will allow you to change the past. You have to accept that there are things that you cannot control. As you said at the end - you have to be able to accept rejection, and it comes in many forms.

You're not broken or damaged. You just need set manageable outcomes. As others have mentioned, online dating gives you the ability to set out some manageable expectations going into a relationship. Don't approach dating as something that you can plan from start to finish. Set out a few criteria you'd like to achieve and let the rest fill itself in as the time passes. "I'd like to have dinner, then go for a walk to place X where we can get desert." If she doesn't want desert, then fill that with something else. Plan a weekend where you pick a spot, one or two activities and leave the rest open. Find a few things that surprise you, or things that you haven't done before. Sit down together and let her plan some of the details, knowing that she may want to do things that may not 100% interest you, or involve events that you have no experience with. Let her take the lead, and see how the intimacy develops between you.

Anyways - hope this is on target. Good luck.

Thank you for taking the time to review this thread, and my original post -- I appreciate it.

In terms of what you mentioned about my need for control, within the context of booking and having sex with escorts, it's quite accurate, except for the requests for outfits and what not.

What you mentioned about being able to shut off my hyper-active mind is also very accurate, and I imagine that my anxiety and hyper-active mind are why I once gravitated towards binge drinking one to three times a week in the past, and why I smoked weed every single day for a decade.

And yes, when I finish seeing escorts, either a few hours later, or a few days later, I do feel as if I am back to square one, and as if I am no closer to feeling at ease within myself, no closer to being psychologically integrated (by my definition), and no closer to having a fulfilling dating life.

What exactly do you mean by having a fear that intimacy isn't going to be the summit of the mountain that I'm trying to conquer?

I have reverse engineered my life, and I have analyzed all aspects of it, on my own, with the help of many research materials, and with the help of more than a couple of psychotherapists, and I do believe that I have fears of intimacy, fears of abandonment, fears of engulfment, fears of losing control, and many other fears that drive the vast majority of my decisions, but I am open to your perspective and interpretation of my circumstances and life's trajectory.

I greatly appreciate what you've mentioned about being open to some unpredictable outcomes, and I agree with that. I can undoubtedly benefit from surrender, acceptance of circumstances and people that I don't have control over, "going with the flow", and far less control and calculation(s).

Furthermore, I do personalize and internalize many unpleasant situations and seemingly negative outcomes, and I have done that for a long time. So, as you described, when things fall apart with a particular woman that I've been dating, I somehow view it as my fault, and I spend hours, and sometimes days or weeks ruminating on what went wrong, and how I could have approached the situation(s) differently. The same things happen in business, though not to the same extent, because the stakes seem higher for me, when it comes to romantic relationships and also friendships. I still carry a lot of shame within me.

In addition to my mother's over-closeness, because children internalize and personalize everything that happens to them, when my father moved away (for work) when I was 10 years old, due to the circumstances of his career and/or because he was re-enacting his childhood abandonment, I took it very personally, and I internalized that, and other childhood occurrences, such that my life has been guided by some of these irrational beliefs: "Other people can't be trusted", "I have to meet my own needs", "My friends will eventually hurt me", "Women will only date me if I perform a variety of different tasks perfectly", "I am only valuable in so far as I am the best in various areas of my life", "People will eventually reject me or let me down", "I am not good enough.", "I am not man enough", etc.

I have yet to forgive my father, and our relationship more or less deteriorated between my first day of middle school and today. At one point, he was my best friend, so his absence from my life created a lot of developmental problems. And not only do I know that intuitively, it's basic Freudian and Jungian psychology.

Because of my fears of abandonment, and other fears, I have taken dating, and many other aspects of my life far too seriously, and I have been very outcome oriented, which has caused me a lot of pain.

Within the context of dating, someone else mentioned that I have never had a "break-in girlfriend", which has also effected my confidence (within the context of dating, and how I perceive myself as a man), for a very long time.

There are a lot of irrational beliefs that I need to let go of, in addition to the fact that I need to stop playing God. I have a tight grip on my life, I am incredibly regimented, analytical, and I max out on willpower every week, and it's not making my life more fulfilled or joyful. Some of the beliefs that I need to let go of are described here: https://youtu.be/jVI1Xutc_Ws.

 

[GPIDEAL]

AJ11, you can't meet a nice woman in the gym? With all your impressive power-lifting? Good luck bro.

 

[aj11]

AJ11, you can't meet a nice woman in the gym? With all your impressive power-lifting? Good luck bro.

Thank you.

As previously-mentioned, I don't lift heavy anymore, and when I did, I was in a state of overcompensation (at best) -- I was trying to fill a void within me through accomplishments and appearances.

Also, I'm looking for a deep relationship with a psychologically integrated woman that has a variety of interests, and that I can learn more about myself through, via the ups and downs of a long-term relationship.

I'm not interested in dating a woman that is interested in me for superficial reasons (beyond the early stages of the relationship), like how much I could or can lift.

Also, initially meeting women has never been a problem, and having sex is obviously not a problem. Going deeper, maintaining a relationship, and being vulnerable have been challenging.

This quote by Brené Brown summarizes what I want to experience: "We cultivate love when we allow our most vulnerable and powerful selves to be deeply seen and known, and when we honour the spiritual connection that grows from that offering with trust, respect, kindness, and affection."

 

[peeler_feeler]

AJ11, no disrespect, but is there a possibility that you may be in a state of mania on the bipolar spectrum? It seems like your brain works at a very fast pace.

 

[aj11]

AJ11, no disrespect, but is there a possibility that you may be in a state of mania on the bipolar spectrum? It seems like your brain works at a very fast pace.

No disrespect taken.

No, I have anxiety, and to a lesser extent, depression.

I've been checked out by many doctors, nurses, psychologists, and other experts in psychology.

My mom is also a psychiatric nurse that works with a wide variety of people, including those that experience mania and bipolar disorder -- she would have noticed, and would have told me a long time ago if I had anything beyond depression and anxiety.

This does a good job of describing what I experience: https://soundcloud.com/sixty-minute-seminars/60-min-seminars-anxiety-and.

I should also mention that I am healthier and more psychologically balanced than I have been at any other point in my adult life, due to the myriad of tools, experts, naturopathic supplements, healthy foods, and habits that I have integrated into my life.

Ironically, I have thrown way too many solutions at my anxiety and depression, which has made me more anxious and/or overwhelmed in a certain light, so I need to cutback on the volume of good things that I've been doing for myself, in addition to not seeing escorts anymore.

And yes, my mind moves quite fast. In fact, I move quite fast in general, and when I was in New York, this past August, I was surprised at how slowly everybody walked (from my perspective, and in comparison to me).

 

[MindJohn]

Due to a number of factors, including a fear of intimacy, shame and abandonment issues stemming from my childhood, my genetic predispositions, self-imposed stress by way of perfectionism and workaholism, and many others, I have been having protected sex with at least one escort per month, for the last three years, and I want to stop seeing escorts for a number reasons.

I do not view escorting, or having sex with escorts as being morally wrong, I don't view escorting or having sex with escorts as being objectively good or bad, and I think that whether being an escort or having sex with an escort is a positive or negative thing depends on the individual, and whether or not they are acting in alignment with their personas, interests, goals, individual values, and sense of self, and if they are thinking clearly.

The first time I saw an escort, it was after many years of fantasizing about having no strings attached sex with a woman that has a great deal of sexual experience (such as an escort or a porn star). With that said, what ultimately motivated me to see an escort was the death of a childhood friend, who died in a car accident, in his 20s.

I was in so much pain after my friend's death, I was in shock, and at the time, weed, alcohol, porn, and masturbation didn't seem like enough, in terms of numbing my pain. Fortunately, I have been sober from alcohol, weed, and porn for two years, for personal reasons. And again, I see no moral issues with alcohol, weed, and porn, but they simply didn't work for me, and my extreme personality.

Since the first time I saw an escort, despite the fact that I have had many amazing experiences with escorts, including great sex, and interesting conversations, and despite the fact that I have learned a great deal about my psychology, my sexuality, human interactions, and the escort industry through sex with escorts, more often than not, when I see escorts, it's when I am physically and psychologically burnt out, or feeling isolated, or feeling overwhelmingly anxious, or a combination of many negative emotions, as a way of managing those emotions.

As such, sex with escorts has never been something that has been completely spontaneous and carefree for me, and seeing escorts usually comes after a great deal of stress, anxiety, and isolation.

I should also mention that due to my anxiety, I have an irrational fear of passing on an asymptomatic STI to my future girlfriend, despite the fact that I get tested once a month, despite the fact that I have no STI symptoms and have never had any STI symptoms, despite the fact that I have never contracted an STI, and the riskiest thing that I have done was received about 10 BBJs since I started seeing escorts (so, about 25% of the blowjobs that I have received have been unprotected).

My therapist doesn't believe that I am a sexual addict, but she does believe that I have an extreme fear of intimacy, and that my sexual needs go unmet for long periods of time. I basically reach a point of extreme sexual deprivation (which also includes a deprivation of intimacy, and a point of spiritual deprivation), and "act out" when under various (self-imposed) forms of stress.

I basically do a lot of positive things, in terms of personal development and my career, but I take them too far, due to my anxieties, and they end up exhausting me, and burning me out.

I am 5'8, 32 years old, I look like I'm 22 years old, 193 pounds, around 12% body fat (probably less), good-looking, I can be thought of as having an A-type personality, I am very introspective, I own a marketing startup and work as a media production professional, and over the course of the last two years, after an existential crisis, I have used psychotherapy, psychedelics, acupuncture, naturopathic yoga, heavy weight training, meditation, journaling, the twelve step program known as codependents anonymous, the RTribe app for sexual compulsions and addictions, sensory deprivation, every book and podcast on psychology, philosophy, and personal development that I could find, and many other tools, to understand the nuances of my psyche, to ensure that I am physically and psychologically healthy, and to transcend my fears of intimacy and abandonment.

I no longer want to see escorts, because I would much rather have a meaningful relationship with a woman that I can learn from, a woman that accepts me for who I am, and so that I can experience the ups and downs of an intimate relationship, for more than four months, for the first time in my life.

It seems that every time I have sex with escorts, I am spending money that could be used to relieve my stress in far more adaptive, and less expensive ways, in addition to the fact that I am not dating, or getting any closer to the intimate relationship that I want to experience.

Finally, I had sex with an escort last night, we both had a great time, the sex was great, and when we were done having sex twice in an hour, she specifically said that I don't seem like a guy that sees escorts (based on my appearance, vibe, the way in which I spoke, my sexual capacities, etc.), she was surprised that I don't have a girlfriend, and she motivated me to get back onto the dating scene, and to face potential rejection (and potential joy) once again.

I read it all, but most of it read like a list of good reasons TO continue to see escorts... unTIL I got to the part which I have bolded.


I don't think you've been harming yourself especially, and while I DO indeed sense that you are reasonably likely to find traditional dates, and eventually a relationship from those, I generally feel that to continue to see escorts until such time as when you have someone you want to date exclusively won't likely hurt your psychology.

Even for the very best of'em, a relationship with steady sex doesn't happen right away, and while I do NOT sense any particular 'need' for sex emitting from your words, I don't get the sense that seeing escorts is doing you any harm at this point.


I DO respect your having been 'jolted' by somebody's realistic observation that you may be the sort who (seems quite likely to) be sought-after on the open social market.

And of course I have no investment in your sticking around here... but I'm just getting the vibe that it would be OK if you did stick around, until that other game plan gets rolling...

 

[aj11]

I read it all, but most of it read like a list of good reasons TO continue to see escorts... unTIL I got to the part which I have bolded.


I don't think you've been harming yourself especially, and while I DO indeed sense that you are reasonably likely to find traditional dates, and eventually a relationship from those, I generally feel that to continue to see escorts until such time as when you have someone you want to date exclusively won't likely hurt your psychology.

Even for the very best of'em, a relationship with steady sex doesn't happen right away, and while I do NOT sense any particular 'need' for sex emitting from your words, I don't get the sense that seeing escorts is doing you any harm at this point.


I DO respect your having been 'jolted' by somebody's realistic observation that you may be the sort who (seems quite likely to) be sought-after on the open social market.

And of course I have no investment in your sticking around here... but I'm just getting the vibe that it would be OK if you did stick around, until that other game plan gets rolling...

Thank you for reading my post, and this thread -- I appreciate it.

In addition to the last escort that I saw (who was very hot), other escorts have told me the exact same thing in the past. However, this time, it really stuck, and obviously it's not in an escort's best interest to tell me to stop seeing escorts, at least from a business perspective.

In terms of whether or not seeing escorts has been hurting me psychologically, I'm not completely sure. There are a couple of tests available online, to determine if you are a sex addict, and those tests say that I am, but my therapist, who has worked with me for a decade, and who knows me incredibly well says that I'm not. As I mentioned in my original post, my therapist believes that I'm deprived of sex, intimacy, and human touch, and that I stress myself out through perfectionism, workaholism, and rigidity, which leads me to seek sex, to soothe that stress.

Also, I was once addicted to smoking weed everyday, and my weekend binge drinking was quite dangerous and out of control in the past, and in comparison to that, I seem to exercise far more self-control and calculation when it comes to having sex with escorts. Plus, escorts seem to be less physically and psychologically damaging than partying was.

With that said, maybe seeing escorts isn't hurting me psychologically, but it also isn't getting me closer to dating the type of woman or women that I want to date, it isn't helping me overcome my fears of intimacy and vulnerability within the context of a relationship, and I have basically been conditioning myself to seek sex when my stress levels reach their threshold. I would prefer to manage my peak stress levels in different ways, simply because the day will come when I am burnt out, and I won't have easy access to sex.

Finally, my intuition tells me that I need to build up my tolerance for rejection and/or potential rejection within the context of dating, and I simply don't get rejected by escorts.

 

[glamphotographer]

I'm nearing complete retirement. However, there are a few (2) providers that I like to see on a regular basis.

 

[aj11]

I'm nearing complete retirement. However, there are a few (2) providers that I like to see on a regular basis.

Why have you decided to retire, and how are you going to go about retiring?

 

[glamphotographer]

Why have you decided to retire, and how are you going to go about retiring?

Mostly financial and should be thinking about getting a girlfriend and getting married.

 

[aj11]

Mostly financial and should be thinking about getting a girlfriend and getting married.

Interesting. I can relate to the financial motivations, for sure.

Besides that, you've used the word should. Why should you be getting a girlfriend and why should you be getting married? According to who?

 

[glamphotographer]

Interesting. I can relate to the financial motivations, for sure.

Besides that, you've used the word should. Why should you be getting a girlfriend and why should you be getting married? According to who?

Looking at my life and as I get old I would want a son or daughter to take care of me and burry me when my time is up. Scary to be old and alone. Also, it's illegal to hire escorts. Don't want to get caught, even though (bill C-36) is not heavily enforced in Toronto (not yet anyways).

 

[aj11]

Looking at my life and as I get old I would want a son or daughter to take care of me and burry me when my time is up. Scary to be old and alone. Also, it's illegal to hire escorts. Don't want to get caught, even though (bill C-36) is not heavily enforced in Toronto (not yet anyways).

Those are good points, deep human connections, especially through a family, are undoubtedly part of Maslow's hierarchy of human needs.