Homosexuality...
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The three above posters were obviously born in the age of the dinosaur.
If it was nurture, how do you explain homosexual behaviour from children who are brought up in a heterosexual household? If it was nurture, how do you explain hetersexual children who live with homosexual parents?
mmouse, if it's only nature, how do you explain the offset number of men vs women in the entire world populace? Nature does what nature does. You can try to map every single gnome of nature but it won't be accomplished. You can try to define why or how someone is or can be homosexual but you won't get very far. It's not about preference. It's not about parents being homosexual so the kids will be just as homosexual.
How then do you explain bisexuality? Is that nurture or nature?
If it's nurture, how do you explain a farm boy who is totally cut off from homosexual influence being a homosexual? I personally know a couple farm boy homosexuals. They frequent my business. If you never knew they were gay, you would never guess it. They act straight, obviously look like a reg cowboy but are as flaming as the walkers of the pride parade.
It's nature. The only way it's nurture is when the parents/guardians are supportive of homosexuality as natural.
If it was nurture, how do you explain homosexual behaviour from children who are brought up in a heterosexual household? If it was nurture, how do you explain hetersexual children who live with homosexual parents?
mmouse, if it's only nature, how do you explain the offset number of men vs women in the entire world populace? Nature does what nature does. You can try to map every single gnome of nature but it won't be accomplished. You can try to define why or how someone is or can be homosexual but you won't get very far. It's not about preference. It's not about parents being homosexual so the kids will be just as homosexual.
How then do you explain bisexuality? Is that nurture or nature?
If it's nurture, how do you explain a farm boy who is totally cut off from homosexual influence being a homosexual? I personally know a couple farm boy homosexuals. They frequent my business. If you never knew they were gay, you would never guess it. They act straight, obviously look like a reg cowboy but are as flaming as the walkers of the pride parade.
It's nature. The only way it's nurture is when the parents/guardians are supportive of homosexuality as natural.
Lol...
If in your view Homosexual behaviour is 'natural', Mr. Ruck, then how would Homosexuals reproduce themselves? Sincerely, Jon .ruck said:
You're a retard.
Procreation is a different topic, lets stay on topic.
So first, answer my questions before answering with a question.
Procreation is a different topic, lets stay on topic.
So first, answer my questions before answering with a question.
acutus said:
Random mutations happen in nature all the time. Also, recessive genes. If it were not for recessive genes, there would be no blue eyed people. Or blondes.
If it was just as you suggest Acutus, could you please explain how two "normal" parents could produce a Downs Syndrom child?
Compromised said:
All very nice in theory but consider this. Currently anal intercourse has not been able to produce any viable offspring ( with the exception of lawyers as I discussed in another thread). Also evolutionary trends in nature take many, many generations to happen.
That being said, if there was no more standard heterosexual relations happening on this earth, and instead only non standard sexual practices occured. I really doubt that before the last existing human being died there would have been sufficient time for an anal impregnation system to develop.
So inspite of how hard some men will keep plugging away at each other ( pun intended) change couldn't happen soon enough to stop human extinction.
I am not passing judgement on those who practice a homosexual lifestyle, I am simply saying that at the current level of human evolutionary development they will continue to need the services of us breeders to produce more of them. It currently is not a viable self sustaining practice.
Lol...
Please try and control your emotions, Mr. Ruck. I have answered the question of this Thread. The Evolutionary and Biological purpose of sex is to create Life. There is no Evolutionary, Biological, Morphological or Physiological context for males having sex with one and other. Males may chose to have sex with one and other, but the result of that behaviour is a deadly, incurable, infectious anal disease that has killed millions and millions and millions of innocent peope and possibly poisoned Human sexuality permenantly. Heterosexual sex produces Life. Homosexual sex produces an infectious Death. It all seems easy to understand to me. Sincerely, Jon .ruck said:
Both to degrees and depending on the individual
The key point here that many are missing is that there is a difference between sex drive and sexuality. Sex drive is the instinct to want to fuck (gyrate) and release and sexuality is how that sex drive is manifested for a given individual. What is natural (if we use that term to define what is purely instinctual) for most people is a sex drive. There are also some genetic triggers that cause that instinct to fire.
How a sex drive evolves into sexuality is entirely unique to a given individual and there isn´t a predefined outcome based upon genetics. In other words there is no homosexual gene or heterosexual gene. I would say sexuality is conditioned behaviour which basically means behaviour that is learned in order to best acquire a set of needs and desires where the interaction is both unique to the individual and the environment that the individual finds their self in. I was watching Hugh Hefner’s wives and girlfriends and I saw a gorgeous tanned blonde Barbie doll and I had this incredible urge to blow my load all over her tits. This is the cumulative result of how my sex drive and personality interacted with my environment (probably a little too much porn) to shape my sexuality. However at birth there was an infinite number of possibilities in terms of how my sexuality could have developed and life chose for me how it ended up developing through no seemingly conscious choice of my own really.
The key point here that many are missing is that there is a difference between sex drive and sexuality. Sex drive is the instinct to want to fuck (gyrate) and release and sexuality is how that sex drive is manifested for a given individual. What is natural (if we use that term to define what is purely instinctual) for most people is a sex drive. There are also some genetic triggers that cause that instinct to fire.
How a sex drive evolves into sexuality is entirely unique to a given individual and there isn´t a predefined outcome based upon genetics. In other words there is no homosexual gene or heterosexual gene. I would say sexuality is conditioned behaviour which basically means behaviour that is learned in order to best acquire a set of needs and desires where the interaction is both unique to the individual and the environment that the individual finds their self in. I was watching Hugh Hefner’s wives and girlfriends and I saw a gorgeous tanned blonde Barbie doll and I had this incredible urge to blow my load all over her tits. This is the cumulative result of how my sex drive and personality interacted with my environment (probably a little too much porn) to shape my sexuality. However at birth there was an infinite number of possibilities in terms of how my sexuality could have developed and life chose for me how it ended up developing through no seemingly conscious choice of my own really.
My vote is "nurture". People get turned on by different things for various reasons. Some men are attracted mainly to thin women, some men like BBW. Some men are mainly attracted to asian women. Some men are attracted to other men. As a guys with several fetishes, I have the attitude of "whatever floats your boat" mentality. But I would guess that some of my fetishes that turn me on came across due to some positive event in my past and thus I make an association of pleasure with that event. I'm sure I also have my more common fetishes/turn-on's that were "learned" by society.
Dave in Phoenix
Well-known member
I can't imagine anyone actually believing we make a choice in our sexual orientation.
All the failures of those horrid "change them" ministries trying to guilt gays into being the opposite of how God created them.
Many studies show sexual orientation traits shown from early childhood.
Twins raised by same parent and one turns out gay the other straight is really hard to explain.
The only choice in our natural sexual orientation is if we were bisexual to begin with, than we can enjoy either sex.
I never decided one day to be heteroseuxal.. I hardly like hugging another male. Just as gays never decided to be gay and can't understand why we hetero men are attracted to that fat called breasts.
Gayness is also common in nature as well as mankind from the beginning of time.
What is really silly is "the gay lifestyle" What the heck is that? Do I live a heterosexual lifestyle? No I am naturally heterosexual just like about 10-20% of mankind .. and womenkind is naturally gay/bi/lesbian.
All the failures of those horrid "change them" ministries trying to guilt gays into being the opposite of how God created them.
Many studies show sexual orientation traits shown from early childhood.
Twins raised by same parent and one turns out gay the other straight is really hard to explain.
The only choice in our natural sexual orientation is if we were bisexual to begin with, than we can enjoy either sex.
I never decided one day to be heteroseuxal.. I hardly like hugging another male. Just as gays never decided to be gay and can't understand why we hetero men are attracted to that fat called breasts.
Gayness is also common in nature as well as mankind from the beginning of time.
What is really silly is "the gay lifestyle" What the heck is that? Do I live a heterosexual lifestyle? No I am naturally heterosexual just like about 10-20% of mankind .. and womenkind is naturally gay/bi/lesbian.
Could you please provide us with a couple of examples of Homosexuality occurring in Nature, Mr. Dave in Phoenix? In the meantime, I would point out that rapists and murderers are also known 'from the beginning of time'. Sincerely, Jon .Dave in Phoenix said:
acutus said:
In the non-human primate groups, incidences of homosexuality have been recognised in the activities of rhesus monkeys, female stumptail macaques (Mitchell, 1979, pp. 134 &142), Japanese macaques (Mehlman & Chapais, 1988; Mitchell, 1979, p. 416) male chimpanzees, female bonobos, male mountain gorillas, male siamangs, male white-handed gibbons (Wrangham, 1986, p. 367; Yamagiwa, 1987; Yamagiwa, 1992; Edwards & Todd, 1991) and male pygmy chimpanzees (Savage & Bakeman, 1978).
Fedigan ( 1992; p142 ) writes that female-female sexual behaviour has been noted in ‘the squirrel-monkey ( Talmage-Riggs & Anschel 1973 ), the vervet ( Struhsaker 1967a ) and the talapoin ( Wolfheim & Rowell 1972 ), and Meredith Small also references incidences of female-female sexual activity amongst bonobos ( 1993: p144-5 ), Japanese macaques ( 1993; p145-6 ) and Indian langurs ( 1993; p146-7 ).
Other mammals noted for homosexual activities include: female cattle (Short, 1984)’, burros (Flinders, 1993), Male mountain sheep (Weinrich, 1982; Denniston, 1980), giraffes, rats (Kirsch & Rodman, 1982), dolphins, dogs (West, 1977, p. 116), female red deer (Short, 1984), donkeys, cats, rams, goats, pigs, antelope, elephants, hyenas, rabbits, lions, porcupines, hamsters, mice, and porpoises (Weinrich, 1982).
There have also been reports of homosexual pairings in several species of birds: female pairings of Western gulls, ring-billed gulls, California gulls (Weinrich, 1982; Davies, 1991; Denniston, 1980), budgerigars (also called undulated or shell parakeets) (Kavanau, 1987, pp. 41 &119); also mallard ducks whom consorted only with other males during the ‘imprinting period’, itself equivalent to human puberty (West, 1977, p. 43).
Lol...
What is all this, Mr. Reg? Who and what is Mitchell, 1979, pps: 134-142, for example? What recognized academic Journal is this, and indeed all your cited examples from? How is Homosexual behaviour defined in your cited examples? Do you include lions, for example, that have paired up to hunt cooperatively or have you only included the documented examples of male donkeys, porcupines and elephants that have decided to anally fornicate with one and other purely for the fun of it? Sincerely, Jon .reg said:
acutus said:
They are various essays, theses, dissertations and other publications on the subject of homosexuality in the animal kingdom. A TINY bit of effort on your part should put them at your fingertips.
You asked for examples. There they are complete with documentation. I won't read them to you.
Lol...
What essays? What theses? What dissertations and other publications are you talking about, Mr. Reg? From what recognized academic Journals are your cited examples from? Why should I, the reader, be expected to research the examples that you have cited to support your claim? It's up to you to back up your claims, Mr. Reg, not the reader's. It's your responsibility to provide your own documentation, not the reader's! Sincerely, Jon .reg said:
Lol...
Yeah...right. Since you're talking about 'credibility', maybe you could provide the sources for your cited examples...? Sincerely, Jon .reg said:
eyeofthedragon said:
I can't hear you, you'll have to type louder to get past the dragon filter.
acutus said:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2006/06/26/brothers-gay.html
Younger brothers more likely to be gay: study
Last Updated Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:43:26 EDT
CBC News
The probability of a man being gay rises the more older brothers he has, a finding that adds weight to idea sexual orientation could be influenced in the womb.
In 1997, a study led by Ray Blanchard of the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto, concluded that having older brothers increases the likelihood of homosexuality in younger brothers.
To find out if psychological factors in the family were behind the effect, Anthony Bogaert of Brock University in St. Catharines compared men with older brothers born to the same mother to those whose older brothers were adopted or stepbrothers.
If nurture was responsible for the birth order effect then both groups would be expected to show similar rates of homosexuality.
Instead, Bogaert's study of 944 men found only biological older brothers showed an effect on sexual orientation, whether or not they were raised together.
The findings are reported in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The effect was seen with one older brother, and seemed to be stronger for those with three or more older brothers, Bogaert said.
The overall rate of homosexuality in men is about three per cent, Bogaert estimated.
Although having several older brothers may increase the rate to five per cent, the remaining 95 per cent of men with several older brothers are heterosexual, he said.
Some sort of "prenatal factor" such as a maternal immune response to several male fetuses could be at play, altering the brain development of younger brothers, Blanchard told CBC Newsworld.
The findings don't rule out the effects of learning in homosexuality, but more research is generally finding prenatal effects, he said.
The research was funded by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada.
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