Hitler speech

[rld]

I too love a good debate.

You may like a good debate, but your history needs some brushing up.

The prime reason we do not hear about other genocides, is beacue people have gotten over them. No one holds anyone hostage, and makes the current generation feel guilty consistently as the Jews do to the Germans. The holocaust has become a central focus of Jewish ethnic groups. Which is strange, as Jews have been exiled, and perscucated since antiquity. See list: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm

Firstly we do hear lots about other genocides, the US Congress is still debating whether or not to condemn the prior events in Turkey. We also still hear plenty about Rwanda and in fact Native Americans. It is a myth we don't hear about other genocides. IT all depends on your focus, had lunch with a guy from Estonia yesterday and had a long talk about the genocide against the Kulaks in Russia.

You also clearly don't know much about Judiasm. Their previous persecutions and troubles, including the captivity in Egypt, the destruction of the temple, the war with the Romans and the diaspora are central to their identity and how they think about themselves and their religion. You just arn't well informed enough to understand that. Don't mistake your own ignorance for someone else's.

Thus why solely focus on Germans?

Because the Nazi attempts to exterminate large groups of people were a) very well documented after WWII and b) we were involved in the war to bring that empire to an end. You can see a similar heightened interest in say Rwanda because of our involvement there.

Secondly Germanic tribes also got rid of the Roman invaders, like Spain got rid of the Moors. Did the Germans of old not have a claim to the land of their ancestors? To expell people of a foreign culture, who refused to assimilate, and had amassed much of the wealth? Keep the land and its wealth for their own offspring? Keep in mind there was no political correctness in pre WW2 Germany.

This is a terrible analogy. Despite what 19th century German nationalist historians will tell you, the Romans had no interest in settling in Germany and never really occupied it. And to compare the migration of the tribes in classical times, (Goths, Ostragoths, Lombards, Vandals, Franks etc) to the attempted extermination of a segment of your own population and foreign population is just daft. You also fail to take into account that many of the Jews killed had families settled in Germany for hundreds of years. And I don't know what you mean by failure to assimilate. Many of the Jews killed in the holocaust were decorated veterans of WWI who had sacrificed and suffered for Germany in the trenches. If by "assimilate" you mean "did not abandon their religion" you would be right. But they spoke the language, dressed the same, paid taxes, worked in the same jobs, taught at universities, made popular movies, were important musicians...what more do you suggest they should have done to assimilate?

To say otherwise is contradictory to evolutionary theory. Ethnic groups compete for resources, and that has been the prime cause of many genocides.

People who misuse evolutionary theory in this fashion are the kind of folks who give science a bad name. It also shows an ignorance of basic evolutionary science and misunderstanding of Darwin. If you like we can go down that road.

Currently Jews are quite keen on keeping Israel a Jewish state, with Jewish customs, and represent Jewish interests. Why should others be condemned for doing the same?

So you are suggesting there is nothing to condemn in the Holocaust. I think you need a moral overhaul.

I disagree with the fact that Jewish organizations consistantly remind us of the holoucaust to teach "tolerance", as much as to convince others of their moral bankrupcy. Creating movies which feature Jews killing Germans does not help people become more tolerent; it inflames others. Demanding reperations from the current generations hard work also does not help.

I think you got it backwards. Do you mean Germans killing Jews?

Making movies that show that is called history. I guess you think we should not face up to our real history because it is too painful for you. So much for history. And you have a problem with the group that committed a crime paying compensation to the victims? I guess we should just give them a pass.

Again not to condone Hitler, or the Nazi's. What happened in Germany was an expression of the very human instinct to favor one's ethnic group, to ensure the survival of the group.

Wrong again. Not only does evolutionary theory not work that way, Jews were not a threat to the survival of the German people. The key factual underpinning of your assertion does not exist.

 

[basketcase]

I too love a good debate.

The prime reason we do not hear about other genocides, is beacue people have gotten over them. No one holds anyone hostage, and makes the current generation feel guilty consistently as the Jews do to the Germans. The holocaust has become a central focus of Jewish ethnic groups. Which is strange, as Jews have been exiled, and perscucated since antiquity. See list: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm

Again you choose to ignore all of the other groups that keep their own suffering in the forefront. Slavery in America and the Armenians are two issues that have been in front of US politics in recent years. The Holocaust is also one of the few events where significant numbers of Western soldiers were direct witnesses.

Secondly Germanic tribes also got rid of the Roman invaders, like Spain got rid of the Moors. Did the Germans of old not have a claim to the land of their ancestors? To expell people of a foreign culture, who refused to assimilate, and had amassed much of the wealth? Keep the land and its wealth for their own offspring? Keep in mind there was no political correctness in pre WW2 Germany.

To say otherwise is contradictory to evolutionary theory. Ethnic groups compete for resources, and that has been the prime cause of many genocides.

Besides your absolutely pathetic attempt to justify the Holocaust, you might also notice that Germany had huge numbers of Jews who were completely assimilated yet still murdered.
p.s. I think the word you want is eugenics, not evolution.

Oh yeah, a self defense argument doesn't work when you invade a dozen or so other countries and kill their Jews too.

I disagree with the fact that Jewish organizations consistantly remind us of the holoucaust to teach "tolerance", as much as to convince others of their moral bankrupcy. Creating movies which feature Jews killing Germans does not help people become more tolerent; it inflames others. Demanding reperations from the current generations hard work also does not help.

Just because seeing those Jews killing your Nazi brethren might inflame you, most people rightly see the Nazis (not Germans) as an evil that needed to be destroyed.

Again not to condone Hitler, or the Nazi's. What happened in Germany was an expression of the very human instinct to favor one's ethnic group, to ensure the survival of the group.

More bullshit racist justifications.

I am quite sure if a foreign group immigrated to Japan, and amassed much of their wealth, while the Japanese were living in poverty, a similar situation would ensue.

Good point, ignoring the lack of invasion, the huge numbers of rich ethnic Germans, and your absolute idiocy.


Keep your little swastika on the wall of your basement apartment, your copy of Mein Kampf on your bedroom table, and post things on the internet that you know you could never get away with among civilized people because the modern world would recognize you as the narrow minded, hate filled jackass who has a pathetic need to blame others for his shortcomings that you are.

 

[basketcase]

...

I think you got it backwards. Do you mean Germans killing Jews?
...

My guess is that he is thinking about eminent pieces of historical documentary like Inglorious Bastards.

 

[asterwald]

Gentlemen, it appears some this thread has ruffled some feathers, not my intent. It is just the internet, I advise all to take things lightly.

Thank-you for your responses; very insightful indeed, save the personal attacks of course.

In the end, Germans have much to be proud of, they have given the world perhaps the greatest geniuses ever known. They dont deserve constant guilt trips.

 

[basketcase]

It was not your intent to 'ruffle feathers' yet you post that the Nazi attempt to exterminate Jews was understandable. I'll hold that the personal attacks are justified.

 

[papasmerf]

Gentlemen, it appears some this thread has ruffled some feathers, not my intent. It is just the internet, I advise all to take things lightly.

Thank-you for your responses; very insightful indeed, save the personal attacks of course.

In the end, Germans have much to be proud of, they have given the world perhaps the greatest geniuses ever known. They dont deserve constant guilt trips.

Demand??

You have a second handle??

Thought that was against the rules?

 

[SS Sharla]

Germans have much to be proud of, they have given the world perhaps the greatest geniuses ever known. They dont deserve constant guilt trips.

We were talking of Nazis, not Germans. There is no guilting or blaming of Germans here - there does seem to be a lot of blaming of Jews though - who have also contributed some great geniuses to the world.

 

[diehard]

We were talking of Nazis, not Germans. There is no guilting or blaming of Germans here - there does seem to be a lot of blaming of Jews though - who have also contributed some great geniuses to the world.

Who's blaming Jews here?

And Germans put the Nazis into power...

 

[basketcase]

...
And Germans put the Nazis into power...

(ignoring the whole complex process of Nazis gaining power) Those Germans who voted for them did so almost 70 years ago. I doubt many are even still alive.

Who's blaming Jews here?

One of asterwald's claims is that the Jews brought it on themselves for living in German lands and not becoming Christian. He has also been critical of Jews for daring to remember the Holocaust. That sounds like blaming the Jews to me.

 

[rld]

And if there were Muslims in Germany in the 1930's, with the same large numbers that inhabit Europe today, the Holocaust would most certainly not have been directed at the Jews, homosexuals, the mentally ill and the Gypsies. You can bet on it.

You might be right, but you should keep in mind that many in the SS hierarchy had a great deal of admiration for muslims and that IIRC there was a muslim SS regiment.

 

[rld]

Gentlemen, it appears some this thread has ruffled some feathers, not my intent. It is just the internet, I advise all to take things lightly.

Thank-you for your responses; very insightful indeed, save the personal attacks of course.

In the end, Germans have much to be proud of, they have given the world perhaps the greatest geniuses ever known. They dont deserve constant guilt trips.

I am Austrian by descent, so we kind of share some of the same guilt.

But personally, I think Germans are perfectly capable of making their own decisions about whether or not they feel guilty, or whether or not they want to pay reparations. Nobody put a gun to their head.

In fact, I think Russia and Japan would do well if they taught history as forthrightly and honestly as the Germans do.

 

[rld]

Who's blaming Jews here?

And Germans put the Nazis into power...

But never with anything close to a legit majority...

 

[FatOne]

I am Austrian by descent, so we kind of share some of the same guilt.

Thats mighty racist of you. You only have guilt for the things you are responsible for. Having pride or shame in your ancestory is foolish.

 

[rld]

Thats mighty racist of you. You only have guilt for the things you are responsible for. Having pride or shame in your ancestory is foolish.

You must have a unique definition of racism.

I enjoy celebrating and understanding my culture and heritage. If I had to guess your suggestion that we should all abandon our ancestry and heritage is a pretty minority view.

 

[FatOne]

You must have a unique definition of racism.

I enjoy celebrating and understanding my culture and heritage. If I had to guess your suggestion that we should all abandon our ancestry and heritage is a pretty minority view.

Judging yourself guilt worthy on the basis of Austrian ancestry, isn't much different from judging someone on the colour of their skin rather then the content of their character. So I am using the standard definition of racism, simply applying it in an unusual but legitimate way.

Unless you personally had something to do with Hitlers rise to power.


Also
"I am Austrian by descent, so we kind of share some of the same guilt. "
You have an odd concept of celebrating culture and heritage.

Also nothing I said implied abandoning ancestry or heritage, simply that guilt or pride should be on the basis of things you have actually done, and the type of person you are, and not who your parents and ancestors are.

Although now that we are on the topic, I say yes, we would be much better if we adopt what is best from what the world offers. If wearing a dress, listing to tortured cats and eating Haggis turns you one, why not go for it, even if you are not Scottish. I'd say it is more sensible for someone to spend their time listening to Newfie music, eating Indian food, doing Chinese martial arts, living in a Swedish style home, absorb themself into the history of Latin America and read Shakespeare in the Original Klingon rather then get hung up on what your parentals and grandparentals were into... if the above floats your boat that is.

Granted what floats your boat will be at least someone influenced by ancestry, I'll admit to a bit of pull myself. But when it comes to guilt and pride, that is something we can use less of.
I find it funny when people who blather on about cultural pride the most often [even if not always] are those who have done the least with their lives.

 

[eric42]

You obviously have never heard of the Gulags. You also need to read up on the Holomodor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Caused by Stalin.

Shut the fuck up already....

 

[blackrock13]

Shut the fuck up already....

If that's the single sum total of your contribution to this thread so far 5 pages in, thanks for coming out.

 

[thaiboy]

kinda like a nickleback song.....starts quiet....THEN LOUD...then quiet....THEN LOUD...look at how nickleback has succeded from hypnotizing unaware Canadians and Americans.

lol...couldn't agree with you more!

 

[GPIDEAL]

Isn't it common knowledge that Stalin killed more? What was his motive? Did he regard the Ukrainians as inferior or what? Was it pure racism?

 

[night ride]

One thing about Hitler is that he taught us that a population of hard-working moral, decent people can be led down a dark path by a charismatic leader.
One good thing about GW Bush is that he taught us that a population of hard-working moral, decent people can be led down a dark path by a leader.
Okay, maybe people don't learn.