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Hezbollah draws Lebanon into Syrian war

MattRoxx

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Is anyone even interested in what's happening in Syria or is it, no Israel bashing = no interest in this forum?

More than 230 people have been killed every day in Syria since January 22http://www.thetower.org/human-rights-group-230-people-killed-syria-daily-since-peace-talks-began/, when international mediators brought President Bashar al-Assad’s government and its opponents together, the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said. That is more than in any other three weeks since the war began in 2011.

The United Nations says more than 130,000 Syrians have been killed in nearly three years of fighting. Totaling at least 4,959, the three-week death toll compiled by the Observatory included 515 women and children. The group estimated about a third of all the dead were civilians. “This is the highest average we have had,” said Rami Abdelrahman of the Observatory as the group urged a suspension of negotiations at Geneva if there was no immediate ceasefire.
Oh well hey look the IDF pulled down some Bedouin tents, that's more newsworthy.


ps SodaStream is back up over $40/share in case anyone is still interested.
 

MattRoxx

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In this world, Israel filled Lebanon with refugees they ethnically cleansed from their homes and waiting for Israel to respect their right of return.
That's the source of the conflict.
Have you become unstuck in time? In THIS world, NOW, Lebanon is being filled with Syrian refugees.

The number of Syrian refugees in Lebanon has now passed one million, according to a recent government estimate. Many have nowhere to go, few possessions and are struggling to survive. In some villages, near the border, the refugees now outnumber the Lebanese residents.
 

fuji

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In this world, Israel filled Lebanon with refugees they ethnically cleansed from their homes and waiting for Israel to respect their right of return.
That's the source of the conflict.
Israel never ethnically cleansed anyone, though there were clearly roughly equal numbers of refugees from both sides of the conflict, with about 700k refugees on each side fleeing to the other.

Israel has already absorbed some 700k refugees, far more than Lebanon or Syria, which got fewer than that added together. (We are talking 48 populations, refugees from both sides have obviously got descendants).

It is time for Lebanon to do what Israel has already done decades ago, and absorb its share of refugees from the conflict, especially seeing as the Arab nations are to blame for the war they started.
 

gryfin

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Really, any Lebanese is authorized by the state to go to war with Israel?
Wow, you can't remember what you wrote from one post to the next, Rob:

Is Hezbollah lawfully entitled to defend South Lebanon from Israeli attack?

Yes or no?

Let's see if your views are logically consistent.
Yes, any Lebanese is entitle to defend any part of Lebanon from an attack.
 

fuji

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Wow, you can't remember what you wrote from one post to the next, Rob:

Yes, any Lebanese is entitle to defend any part of Lebanon from an attack.
So Hezbollah is authorized by the state and Hezbollah attacks on Israel are authorized by the Lebanese state.
 

gryfin

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So when has Israel attacked Lebanon? Responding to massive terror attacks during the civil war? Responding to Hezbollah's 2006 attack across the border and their kidnapping of dead Israelis? Of course Syria invaded Lebanon in 1976 and stayed for 30 years but you never complain about that.
It's hard to be taken seriously when you are unaware of basic history. Syria did not invade Lebanon in 1976 but were part if the Arab Deterrent Force:

"As the Lebanese Civil War escalated in 1976, the Arab League created an intervention force composed almost entirely of Syrian forces with token contributions from other Arab states, including Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Libya. Although nominally present at the behest of the government of Lebanon, the force was under the direct command of Syria. The ADF initially consisted of 30,000 troops of which 25,000 were provided by Syria. In the spring of 1979, after the Arab League had extended the mandate of the Arab Deterrent Force, the Sudanese, the Saudis and the United Arab Emirates troops departed Lebanon, the Libyan troops were essentially abandoned and had to find their own way home (if at all), and the ADF thereby became a purely Syrian force (which did include the Palestinian Liberation Army (PLA))."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Deterrent_Force

You are stumbling from error to error again.
 

fuji

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Given my answer, your question makes no sense whatsoever, Rob. Very Rob Ford.
Let me answer then: Hezbollah attacked Israel, resulting in an Israeli defensive strike on Lebanon to stop the ongoing attacks on sovereign Israeli territory.

The question is to what extent the State of Lebanon bears responsibility. Were they simply inadequate to the task of preventing Hezbollah attacks on Israel? Or were they complicit, authorizing those attacks?
 

gryfin

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Let me answer then: Hezbollah attacked Israel, resulting in an Israeli defensive strike on Lebanon to stop the ongoing attacks on sovereign Israeli territory.

The question is to what extent the State of Lebanon bears responsibility. Were they simply inadequate to the task of preventing Hezbollah attacks on Israel? Or were they complicit, authorizing those attacks?
You've got your history wrong. Israel had been violating Lebanese sovereignty, Rob.
 

fuji

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You've got your history wrong. Israel had been violating Lebanese sovereignty, Rob.
Israel had been responding to ongoing attacks from Lebanese territory. Your double standard is pathetic. You think that the PLO and then Hezbollah should be allowed to repeatedly attack Israel from Lebanese territory but Israel should not be able to counter attack to stop them.
 

gryfin

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Israel had been responding to ongoing attacks from Lebanese territory. Your double standard is pathetic. You think that the PLO and then Hezbollah should be allowed to repeatedly attack Israel from Lebanese territory but Israel should not be able to counter attack to stop them.
That's always the Zionist script, isn't it? Victimhood. Unfortunately, the truth is otherwise. Israel has, and continues to, violate Lebanese sovereignty on a daily basis. It continues to occupy Lebanese territory. It has spread millions of cluster bombs across Lebanon.
 

fuji

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That's always the Zionist script, isn't it? Victimhood. Unfortunately, the truth is otherwise. Israel has, and continues to, violate Lebanese sovereignty on a daily basis. It continues to occupy Lebanese territory. It has spread millions of cluster bombs across Lebanon.
All of which is in response to Lebanese attacks on Israel.

It is a fact that Lebanon declared war on Israel on 15 May 48, and invaded Israel. It is a fact that after that war Lebanon allowed the PLO to use its territory for attacks on Israel, precipitating the war in 82. It is a fact that Lebanon allowed Hezbollah to attack Israel from Lebanese territories resulting in the 2006 war.

Lebanon has always either been the aggressor directly, or permitted its territory to be used by an aggressor like the PLO or Hezbollah.

Israel has never started any war, but Israel does finish the ones others start.
 

gryfin

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All of which is in response to Lebanese attacks on Israel.

It is a fact that Lebanon declared war on Israel on 15 May 48, and invaded Israel. It is a fact that after that war Lebanon allowed the PLO to use its territory for attacks on Israel, precipitating the war in 82. It is a fact that Lebanon allowed Hezbollah to attack Israel from Lebanese territories resulting in the 2006 war.

Lebanon has always either been the aggressor directly, or permitted its territory to be used by an aggressor like the PLO or Hezbollah.

Israel has never started any war, but Israel does finish the ones others start.
If you want to play, you have to pay. Provide sources.
 

fuji

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If you want to play, you have to pay. Provide sources.
Why don't I just take your tack and say I'm right unless you prove me wrong?

I will happily provide references when you agree that the person making the positive claim, like "Lebanon attacked Israel" or "there is a law of ancestral return", is the one who owes the reference.

I will provide this one, you provide that one. That's fair, otherwise you're just a hate troll.
 

gryfin

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Why don't I just take your tack and say I'm right unless you prove me wrong?

I will happily provide references when you agree that the person making the positive claim, like "Lebanon attacked Israel" or "there is a law of ancestral return", is the one who owes the reference.

I will provide this one, you provide that one. That's fair, otherwise you're just a hate troll.
Well if we are going by the "you provide one and then I'll provide one" model then you have a backlog of several hundred so start making up the deficit now.

But you won't, Rob. You are a windbag. But you are a windbag who admitted that the Palestinians were ethnically cleansed.
 

fuji

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Well if we are going by the "you provide one and then I'll provide one" model then you have a backlog of several hundred so start making up the deficit now.

But you won't, Rob. You are a windbag. But you are a windbag who admitted that the Palestinians were ethnically cleansed.
I will go first once you agree the person making a positive claim owes the reference. We all know you don't have one anyway.
 

gryfin

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I will go first once you agree the person making a positive claim owes the reference. We all know you don't have one anyway.
Who would have guessed you'd find a way not to substantiate your claims.
 

fuji

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Who would have guessed you'd find a way not to substantiate your claims.
I can easily substantiate my claims, but you're a troll. You refused to substantiate YOUR claim that there was an international law of ancestral return. It's a load of bullshit and you played this dishonest game of insisting there was such a fictional thing unless I proved you wrong.

So, I'm throwing it back in your face -- you can't prove me wrong, so fuck you.

If you decide to start behaving like a non-troll, and start substantiating YOUR claim, then I will reciprocate. In the meantime you're just some fucked hate troll that's been caught lying so many zillion times that I don't really care what the fuck you think, and nobody else does either.

I will say though, if ANYONE ELSE would like to see the references for the above--that Lebanon attacked Israel, that the PLO and Hezbollah were attacking Israel from Lebanese territory and so on--anyone OTHER THAN gryfin, all you have to do is ask and I will happily comply. That includes you Groggy, because although you are just as hateful as Gryfin, you don't play these fucking idiotic troll games he's playing, at least not always, so I will happily provide references if you want to see them.

But Gryfin, until you start behaving yourself, I am not playing stupid games with you. You refuse to provide references for your claims, so you aren't entitled to ask for them from others.
 
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