Pickering Angels

Hermann Goering: The truth

buttercup

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Feb 28, 2005
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I am disgusted with this thread.
Promoting the virtues of a group of psychopathic bullies that lacked any empathy or remorse for the 10s of millions that suffered and died as a direct result of their actions is repellant.
Anyone who would say they had any redeeming qualities is just as evil as they were.
Being the child of holocaust survivors (not Jewish) I wish you could have heard the stories of depravity and anguish my parents recounted. All on the orders of your "heros" who were not man enough to do the dirty deeds themselves.
You should suffer for week what these victims went through. Doubtful you would survive.
You are just a thoughtless idiot.
Or worse yet, the evil spawn of those lower level perpetrators who escaped and still believe.
I've met enough of those.
IMO, we don't do ourselves any favours by pretending that Hitler wasn't right up there with the world's best orators, or that Goering was a dumbo.

Placing them outside the human race, and crediting them only with being evil, makes it more likely that we won't recognize the next wolf in sheep's clothing, when he comes along. There is no shortage of evil people, besides the Nazis.

If world domination by one man ever becomes practically possible again (as it was possible in 1940), there will certainly be many candidates for the job. And we won't recognize them as "evil", until it's too late.

Better to expose the politicians and officials whose mantra is: "If only I had more power, I could govern Canada really well." Better to make sure the checks and balances that curb a leader's power remain in place and secure. It's the secret to a happy life.
 

SkyRider

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Better to expose the politicians and officials whose mantra is: "If only I had more power, I could govern Canada really well." Better to make sure the checks and balances that curb a leader's power remain in place and secure.
Personally, I'm more worry about Putin and his thugs than Harper or even Mulcair. Anybody worry about the PRC and/or North Korea? What about Iran?

Here are some words for thought: "Better to have a robust military and not need it than to need a robust military and not have one." Imagine how many lives would have been saved if China had a robust military in 1937 to repeal Imperial Japan's aggression. Imagine how many lives would have been saved if Britain, france and Russia had robust militaries in 1939 to stop Hitler in his tracks.
 

fuji

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Because, as brutal as ISIS are, you've got a better chance of hitting Lottomax and then getting hit by lightning the same day, than you do of being attacked by ISIS in Canada.
I bet you thought the same thing about Al Qaeda back in 2000.

ISIS / Al Qaeda ties certainly have been trying to kill us.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_VIA_Rail_Canada_terrorism_plot

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ontario_terrorism_plot

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...umbia-rcmp-to-announce-terror-charges-tuesday

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu_ramming_attack

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_shootings_at_Parliament_Hill,_Ottawa
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
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On the other hand, at Nuremberg, they tested the defendants. Goering had the highest IQ by far of them all.
Not quite right the Nazi with the highest IQ was Rienhard Heydrich, Czech commandos took care of him.

Isn't propaganda wonderful, the Communist dictatorship of China is rewriting WW II history. The official version is that they were responsible for fighting the Japanese alone from 1937 to 1941 - this is pure bullshit! It was the Kuomintang under Chiang Kai Shek who carried on the resistance and his forces took heavy casualties for it. In the end General Chiang was betrayed by the Americans. After the Soviet Red Army withdrew from Manchuria, Chiang inflicted a heavy defeat on Mao forces in the region. The Americans fearing a civil war brokered a peace deal buying Mao time to regroup (The Long March). Chiang couldn't replenish his army, eventually evacuating to Taiwan.
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
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Heydrich had Goering wrapped around his pinky and the Bavarian knew it. He was the evil genius, the power behind the throne. Hitler considered him his natural successor. Had he a more enlightened nature, he could have been successful in any field he undertook - unless the rest of those Nazi bums. The Allies knew this, D-Day was not possible as long as Heydrich was alive. They hit the right man, after his assassination, Nazi Intelligence (oxymoron) disintegrated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KDyYdlZg8g
 

seth gecko

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2003
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Hey there Fuj, still have no life outside the internet, I see.
I'm well aware of the nature of these organizations, and the threat they pose to Canada.
And that the current gov't of Canada is GROSSLY overstating that threat.
Last time we exchanged comments here, it took about 2 or 3 pages for you to admit what everyone already knows about you.....that you are pretty clueless on the topics you post about.
While it was fun, I just don't have that much spare time again.
But I take it that you are reversing your previous opinion that traffic poses a greater threat than terrorism in Canada? Yes or no?
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,359
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I am disgusted with this thread.
Promoting the virtues of a group of psychopathic bullies that lacked any empathy or remorse for the 10s of millions that suffered and died as a direct result of their actions is repellant.
Anyone who would say they had any redeeming qualities is just as evil as they were.
Being the child of holocaust survivors (not Jewish) I wish you could have heard the stories of depravity and anguish my parents recounted. All on the orders of your "heros" who were not man enough to do the dirty deeds themselves.
You should suffer for week what these victims went through. Doubtful you would survive.
You are just a thoughtless idiot.
Or worse yet, the evil spawn of those lower level perpetrators who escaped and still believe.
I've met enough of those.
I hear you, but I saw on one show wherein the enemy described Adolf Hitler as an 'extraordinary man'. This is not to praise him, and I don't think that any people here are doing the same.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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Exactly the same. Germany was toast by July 1944.
Do you think Rommel would've negotiated an earlier surrender, if he was in charge? Rommel seemed like a rational man, and not the lunatic that was Hitler.
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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Interesting reference Danmand.
Do you see any evidence of Herman ze Germans' claim that this tactic would work anywhere,,,even in a democracy?
I've been out of the loop of late, but isn't there an upcoming federal election in Canada?
By any chance, is the gov't claiming Canada is at risk of attack, say, from ISIS, and positioning themselves as the only ones strong enough to counter this "threat"?
Because, as brutal as ISIS are, you've got a better chance of hitting Lottomax and then getting hit by lightning the same day, than you do of being attacked by ISIS in Canada.

Absolutely.

The Warren Commission Report (WCR) is a fairy tale, and the MSM always endorsed it. Why? Because the press is afraid to touch this issue which would impugn the government and its institutions. The press also get's their licensing from the government.

The War in Iraq is another big lie (ironically, the late Vincent Bugliosi, who endorses the WCR, wrote a book and appeared before the Senate, saying that Dubya should be prosecuted for the murder of 4,500 American soldiers, due to his deception of Congress).

I can give other examples. This is not to say that the press is complicit in lies. For the most part no, but certain touchy issues are hazardous to their livelihood.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
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Interesting reference Danmand.
Do you see any evidence of Herman ze Germans' claim that this tactic would work anywhere,,,even in a democracy?
I've been out of the loop of late, but isn't there an upcoming federal election in Canada?
By any chance, is the gov't claiming Canada is at risk of attack, say, from ISIS, and positioning themselves as the only ones strong enough to counter this "threat"?
Because, as brutal as ISIS are, you've got a better chance of hitting Lottomax and then getting hit by lightning the same day, than you do of being attacked by ISIS in Canada.
That's right
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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Absolutely.

The Warren Commission Report (WCR) is a fairy tale, and the MSM always endorsed it. Why? Because the press is afraid to touch this issue which would impugn the government and its institutions. The press also get's their licensing from the government.

The War in Iraq is another big lie (ironically, the late Vincent Bugliosi, who endorses the WCR, wrote a book and appeared before the Senate, saying that Dubya should be prosecuted for the murder of 4,500 American soldiers, due to his deception of Congress).

I can give other examples. This is not to say that the press is complicit in lies. For the most part no, but certain touchy issues are hazardous to their livelihood.
Case in point:

15 August 2015



Gov. Jeb Bush repeated one of the biggest falsehoods of our time during the recent presidential candidate debate: “we were misled (into the Iraq War) by faulty intelligence.”

US intelligence was not “misled.” It was ordered by the real, de facto president, Dick Cheney, to provide excuses for a war of aggression against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

PM Tony Blair, forced British intelligence services to “sex up” reports that Iraq had nuclear weapons; he purged the government and the venerable broadcaster BBC of journalists who failed to amplify Blair’s lies. Bush and Blair reportedly discussed painting a US Air Force plane in UN colors and getting it to buzz Iraqi anti-aircraft sites in hope the Iraqis would fire on it. Bush told Blair that after conquering Iraq, he intended to invade Iran, Syria, Libya and Pakistan.

In fact, Iraq had no “weapons of mass destruction,” save some rusty barrels of mustard and nerve gas that had been supplied by the US and Britain for use against Iran. I broke this story from Baghdad back in late 1990.

Tyler Drumheller, who died last week, was the former chief of CIA’s European division. He was the highest-ranking intelligence officer to go public and accuse the Bush administration of hyping fabricated evidence to justify invading Iraq.

Drumheller was particularly forceful in denouncing the Iraqi defector codenamed “Curveball,” whose ludicrous claims about mobile Iraqi germ laboratories were trumpeted before the UN by former Secretary of State Colin Powell. “Curveball’s” claims were outright lies and Powell, whose career was ruined by parroting these absurd allegations, should have known better.

“Curveball” was an ‘agent provocateur’ clearly sent by a neighbor of Iraq to help promote a US attack on that nation. Whether it was Kuwait, Saudi Arabia or Israel that sent Curveball,” we still don’t know. All three fabricated “evidence” against Iraq and passed it to Washington. That is where US intelligence was indeed misled. But that’s only a minor part of the story.

A Washington cabal of pro-Israel neocons, oil men, and old-fashioned imperialists joined to promote a grossly illegal invasion of oil-rich Iraq. One of its senior members, former Pentagon official Paul Wolfowitz, admitted that weapons of mass destruction was chosen as the most convenient and emotive pretext for war. Orders went out to CIA and NSA to find information linking Iraq to 9/11 and weapons of mass destruction.

Some of the worst torture inflicted on suspects kidnapped by CIA’s action teams was designed to make them admit to a link between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein. There was, of course, none. But administration officials, like the odious Condoleeza Rice, kept broadly hinting at a nuclear threat to America.

Prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, polls showed a majority of Americans believed Iraq was threatening the US with nuclear attack and was behind 9/11. Amazingly, a poll taken of self-professed evangelical Christians just before the US attacked Iraq showed that over 80% supported war against Iraq. So much for turning the other cheek.

Most of the US media, notably the New York Times, Washington Post and Wall Street Journal, amplified the lies of the Bush administration. TV networks were ordered never to show American military casualties or civilian dead. Those, like this writer, who questioned the rational for war, or who wouldn’t go along with the party line, were blanked out from print and TV.

For example, I was immediately dropped from a major TV network after daring mention that Israel supported the 2003 Iraq war and would benefit from it. I was blacklisted by another major US TV network at the direct demand of the Bush White House for repeatedly insisting that Iraq had no nuclear capability.Very few analysts, journalists, or politicians took time to ask: even if Iraq had nuclear weapons, how could they be delivered to North America? Iraq had no long-range bombers and no missiles with range greater than 100kms. Perhaps by FedEx? No one asked, why would Iraq invite national suicide by trying to hit the US with a nuclear weapon?

The most original answer came from George W. Bush: nefarious Iraqi freighters were lurking in the North Atlantic carrying “drones of death” that would attack sleeping America. This hallucination was based on a single report that the bumbling Iraqis were working a children’s model airplane that, in the end, broke and never flew. What inspired such a phantasmagoria? Pot, too much bourbon, LSD, or thundering orders from Dick Cheney to find a damned good excuse for invading Iraq.

For Cheney and his oil pals, conquering Iraq would secure the Arab world’s biggest oil reserves for Uncle Sam and offer a central military base in the region. For Washington’s bloodthirsty neocons, pulverizing Iraq would remove one of Israel’s most determined enemies, crush the only Arab nation that might challenge Israel’s nuclear monopoly, and cost Israel nothing. Invading Iraq produced the slow disintegration of the Mideast so long sought by militant Zionists.

It all worked brilliantly, at least from Israel’s viewpoint. Not, however for the US. Bush’s invasion shattered Iraq, led to al-Qaida and ISIS, and left Washington saddled with a $1 trillion-dollar bill instead of the $60 million cost estimated by Wolfowitz. The Mideast is in a tailspin, Palestinians are totally isolated, and Egypt, the region’s key nation, run by an Arab-fascist military dictatorship.

Tyler Drumheller was the only senior CIA officer to stand up and tell Americans they were lied into an unnecessary, illegal war. Today, we have Iraqi déjà vu anew as the lie factories and fear mongers work overtime to promote war with Iran.

30



copyright Eric S. Margolis 2015
 

mandrill

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Do you think Rommel would've negotiated an earlier surrender, if he was in charge? Rommel seemed like a rational man, and not the lunatic that was Hitler.
Assuming that Rommel would be the guy in charge...

I would guess he would ask for a separate peace w Roosevelt and Churchill, so he could concentrate on fighting Stalin. Roosevelt and Churchill would tell him to go fuck himself. By that time, the German armies would have been kicked out of France, as actually happened.

If Rommel did surrender at that point, it would have saved a million lives, but the end result of the peace talks would have been what happened in real life.
 

mandrill

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Eric Margolis - professional America-hater and full-time conspiracy theorist makes more $$$$$$ from his rantings.
 

bishop

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Rommel is over rated, he was unstoppable in north africa but only because the nazis broke the allied encryption and he was able to have more than perfect intel on the allies, once the allies changed their encryption Rommel was smashed and he had to run back to germany.

The allies did not start to make significant progress until Stalin got into the war which brought much needed time for Alan Turing to break the german engima code with the world's first computer which he designed and built. Once Enigma was broken, Turing's computer could break code and read messages faster than the germans could decipher their own encryption, it was more than perfect intel as the Allies could read messages before the intended Axis recipient could decode and read the messages.

Once Enigma was broken and the Axis still believed it to be secure; Sun Tzu himself could have led the Axis armies and still the Axis armies would have been whooped.
 

fuji

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I'm well aware of the nature of these organizations, and the threat they pose to Canada.
Thanks for conceding the point.

As for traffic, sure terrorism is less of a danger than traffic, but you said that it wasn't a danger at all, that your odds of being attacked were lower than the odds of winning to lottery jackpot.

People with relatives who ran the Boston Marathon or had relatives working in the twin towers know you are wrong.

Here we had some Palestinian terrorist try and blow up a commuter train. Fortunately the police got to him first.

A realistic assessment is that there is a threat and that the actions were are taking are necessary and also so far effective.
 
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GPIDEAL

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Case in point:

15 August 2015



Gov. Jeb Bush repeated one of the biggest falsehoods of our time during the recent presidential candidate debate: “we were misled (into the Iraq War) by faulty intelligence.”

US intelligence was not “misled.” It was ordered by the real, de facto president, Dick Cheney, to provide excuses for a war of aggression against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

Correct. Bugliosi uncovered a document from the CIA that stated that the threat of WMDs was NOT verified or confirmed.

However, Iraq might have been bluffing about any WMDS. This may have simply been false info to deter Iran from attacking their border. Just like Iraq's second in command admitted on 60 Minutes, that they had 8,000 pounds of Anthrax. When asked why by Dianne Sawyer, he said "Why does the USA have nuclear weapons" or words to that effect.
 
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Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
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The allies did not start to make significant progress until Stalin got into the war which brought much needed time for Alan Turing to break the german engima code with the world's first computer which he designed and built. Once Enigma was broken, Turing's computer could break code and read messages faster than the germans could decipher their own encryption, it was more than perfect intel as the Allies could read messages before the intended Axis recipient could decode and read the messages.
Correct, Rommel was over-rated and he left my father to rot in Tobruk.

Had Heydrich lived there would have been at least six variations of the Enigma Machine, Turing and his team would have been overwhelmed. And he would have anticipated every move the Allies made prior to D-Day. He was killed by Czech commandos on June 4 1942, at the time Nazi Germany looked unstoppable. The Czechs paid a heavy price for the assassination, Nazi reprisals were brutal. And they were initially sold down the river by Chamberlain. The Czech contribution to win the war against the Nazis cannot be downplayed. Had they failed the war in Europe would have endured past 1948.

So raise a toast to the Czechs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gcCrwrLAD4
 

SkyRider

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The Czech contribution to win the war against the Nazis cannot be downplayed. Had they failed the war in Europe would have endured past 1948.

So raise a toast to the Czechs:
Let's not forget the Greeks. Their actions forced Hitler to delay launching Operation Barbarossa.
 

SkyRider

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once the allies changed their encryption Rommel was smashed and he had to run back to germany.
That plus the fact that the Allied forces outmanned and outgunned Rommel's force.


Commanders and leaders
Erwin Rommel
Georg Stumme
Ettore Bastico
Harold Alexander
Bernard Montgomery
Strength
116,000 men[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][nb 1][/SUP]
547 tanks[SUP][nb 2][/SUP]
192 armoured cars[SUP][2][/SUP]
770[SUP][4][/SUP] – 900 aircraft (480 serviceable)[SUP][nb 3][/SUP]
552 artillery pieces[SUP][6][/SUP]
496 anti-tank guns[SUP][nb 4][/SUP] – 1,063[SUP][6][/SUP]
195,000 men[SUP][2][/SUP]
1,029 tanks[SUP][nb 5][/SUP]
435 armoured cars[SUP][2][/SUP]
730[SUP][nb 6][/SUP] – 750 aircraft (530 serviceable)[SUP][nb 7][/SUP]
892[SUP][6][/SUP] – 908 artillery pieces[SUP][2][/SUP]
1,451 anti-tank guns[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][nb 8][/SUP]
 
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