Steeles Royal

Has anyone done online trading?

Brotherman

Active member
Jan 17, 2004
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On the other hand how is Twitter doing?
Twitter is a different product then Facebook and the management has to figure out how to increase engagement among its users
as well as have it's user base grow. There is incredible competition for mobile advertising dollars and right now Facebook is even taking market share
from Google. Twitter can still grow it's user base while increasing its revenue, they just need to improve it's core product and get new management.
 

Ceiling Cat

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
28,811
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Recessions are actually the best time to buy bank stocks.
I can't wait for next major recession to hit us


AK-47,

Are you still driving that AMC Pacer?



BNS is just one example. 9.4% annualized return from 2004-2014 despite a major recession in 2008. Just buy the stock and collect the dividends. No need to sit at your computer 24/7 trying to outguess the market.
If you had 100 share of BNS ( or any safe stock ) and put half away for long term growth and traded the other 500 share, you can easily get your 10-15% annually. Especially with compounding.

AK-47, those McD collectors cups are not worth anything!
 

AK-47

Armed to the tits
Mar 6, 2009
6,697
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0
In the 6

Barca

Active member
Sep 8, 2008
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You cannot get 10% annual return without taking CONSIDERABLE risk!! Let alone get 15% return.

Could you please post these stocks you claim are getting 15% annually??
Long-term I think getting 15% is overly ambitious. Short-term I think it's doable. I just don't think it's sustainable. The reason being that short-term performance fails to account for corrections, which all sectors experience at some point.

The S&P Equal Weight Bank Index shows a 5 year track record of around 6.5%. Add an option strategy that adds 4-5% and you can achieve double digit returns. But as all indexes do, it's only a snapshot of a specific period of time. Some 5 year periods will be better than that, others worse.

If anyone thinks they can achieve a consistent 15% return over an extended period of time either they are one of the best Portfolio Managers in the world, or they're delusional.
 

mitchell76

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2010
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There are not really any "safe sure stocks" http://gallery.mailchimp.com/6750fa...s/The_Capitalism_Distribution_12.12.12_1_.pdf

Sorry 10-15% is not realistic for a covered call strategy. You may think that is what you are getting but there is a very, very low probability that you are actually getting that return.

http://tradingmarkets.com/recent/ca...rofits_-_not_as_easy_as_it_sounds-754753.html

Covered call yield is not as simple to calculate as it first appears, says Michael Thomsett of ThomsettOptions.com, so he outlines these basic rules to streamline the process.

What is your return from writing covered calls? The answer: Well, that depends.

In order to accurately calculate your return, you need to set a few rules for yourself. These include:

1. Use the same calculation for all of your covered calls.
2. Compare return for different strikes.
3. Annualize returns to reflect them on the same standard with each other.
4. Take dividend yield into account.

Same calculation for all. The “same calculation” refers to the method of calculating the return. For example, if you hold the call to expiration, what is your yield? Do you base it on your cost of the stock, current value, or the strike? Whichever method you employ, it has to be consistent, and a rationale can be used for any of these. However, the only unvarying standard is the strike, so this is a recommended base for the calculation. If the call were exercised, that would be your sell price, so it should also be your calculation price.
For example, a stock price closes on April 6, 2012, at $81.83. The April 82.50 call was at 1.14. To calculate based on the strike, the “if expired” return would be 1.4%:

1.14 ÷ 82.50 = 1.4%

Compare return for different strikes. In the case of the example above, you can earn more cash by picking a later strike. Comparing April to May and June as of April 6:
April 1.14 (1.4%)
May 2.50 (3.0%)
June 3.75 (4.5%)

Annualize returns. Looking at the short list above, it seems as though the later strike is a smarter deal, right? Wrong. When you take into consideration the holding period, you discover that the shorter-term calls yield better than the longer-term calls. This is due to the accelerating time decay when closer to expiration. If these positions had been opened on April 6, holding periods would be 0.5 months (April), 1.5 months (May), and 2.5 months (June). To annualize, divide the return for each by the holding period, and then multiply by 12 (months):
April (1.14% ÷ 0.5) x 12 = 27.36%
May (2.50% ÷ 1.5) x 12 = 20.00%
June (3.75% ÷ 2.5) x 12 = 18.00%

In this example, you would be better off writing a series of covered calls expiring in one month or less, and repeating 12 times per year, than you would writing a three-month call four times per year. Annualizing puts all of the positions on the same basis; and while it does not necessarily represent the return you should expect to make consistently, it is a great method for checking accuracy.

Take dividend yield into account. If you compare dividend yield for three underlyings that all yield approximately the same on covered calls (and are otherwise equal in the fundamentals), dividend yield can be the great deciding factor. One company yielded 2.25% as of April 6, not a bad rate for a dividend. In fact, it is much better than a competitor, which yielded 1.74% or another at 1.40%. So if these underlyings were all otherwise equal, picking the highest yield would make the most sense from a dividend perspective.
Covered call yield is not as simple to calculate as it first appears. So follow these basic rules and make sure your comparisons are fair. Use the same base for all possibilities, compare yields on different strikes, annualize, and compare dividends.
Excellent post. Thanks for posting this.
 

mitchell76

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2010
23,650
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My goal here is to educate not argue. If you like, I can look at your statements for the past few years and calculate your actual return. You probably won't like the real numbers. Normally it would cost several hundreds of dollars per hour for that service.

Risk and return are related. You should not expect higher returns from a lower risk strategy.

Selling covered call options reduces portfolio volatility and risk. You give up most of the potential upside in exchange for option income.

Selling covered calls for consistent profits is a challenge even for professional managers of mutual funds, so what chance does an individual trader have? Probably not much, at least over the long term. The potential for lost profits, additional taxes, and constant fees makes the covered call strategy questionable for most investors.

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/2...41-the-many-pitfalls-of-selling-covered-calls

http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2007/07/12/stay-away-from-covered-calls.aspx
Very helpful post.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
2,928
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General rules of thumb from me as I'm mostly a boring trader:

Only buy large well known companies that aren't going anywhere
- Of course there's always a risk of a Worldcom or Nortel, but usually these companies ride through thick and thin. And if they have a big earnings drop, they won't drop 50% like a tech or small cap pharma company
- You won't be getting 10x or 20x gainers as the companies are already big
- But you also have the luxury of not having to watch the stock everyday because you are worried something will kill the company

DO NOT buy something based on dividend
- Dividends can always disappear if the company does poor. And dividend heavy stocks crash and burn if the divvy is cut. When that happens you'll be waiting eons for it to rebound. Dividend heavy stocks are often energy stocks, trust fund units, real estate stuff etc..... Wild swings and cyclical
- If it's a big stable company that pays out a 2-3% divvy (see above), than that's gravy. But if you see some obscure energy stock some reason paying an 8% dividend with a hit and miss balance sheet and income statement, forget it
- Brush up your financial report skills and see if the annual dividend (usually paid out in quarters, or for trust units it's monthly) is sustainable. You have to make sure the earnings can cover it and more so (buffer). If it looks like the company has a rocky future and that divvy doesn't look sustainable, the dividend will be cut soon. The board will try to pay out the divvy as long as possible (eating into cash or borrowing), but it gets to a point where it has to be cut. And once that happens, you're a dead duck

Contribute money slowly over time
- DO NOT try to time the market waiting for one of those big collapses that happen every decade and then buying cheap. If it was that easy, everyone would do it
 

onceaday

New member
Sep 28, 2015
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@Ceilingtwat Nice try with your BS rear window chart. I told you in advance what I was doing with the banks. I also told you what I was doing in advance $VRX. So I just relax as I cash 30K tomorrow $VRX while you sit and spin. Take your furry thumb out of your butt and go chase a mouse in your Honda. If you actually have a stock you like going forward let us know so I can short it. Stick to your normal obsequious nonsense and let the PRO's do what we do. BTW I never cackle, have a nice smile, but cannot suffer fools. I also don't like cats. BTW had some trouble with the boat this past W/E have to say I was messed up in the middle of it. Cold and choppy.
 

AK-47

Armed to the tits
Mar 6, 2009
6,697
1
0
In the 6
@Ceilingtwat Nice try with your BS rear window chart
You have to remember who you're talking to when it comes to CeilingDummy

 

AK-47

Armed to the tits
Mar 6, 2009
6,697
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0
In the 6
If anyone thinks they can achieve a consistent 15% return over an extended period of time either they are one of the best Portfolio Managers in the world, or they're delusional
See my post above
 

Ceiling Cat

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
28,811
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AK-47,

You bull shitted us about having an AK-47, we found out you really have a army surplus store Vz58.

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread...ghlight=pellet

You can tell me all kinds of bull about what you drive and I would not believe you.
Strangely, I do believe you when you tell me you do not make 10-15% annually on your savings.

You can make 10-15% by taking advantage of every opportunity like buying a good safe stock, getting a descent dividend, selling covered calls and compounding your profits. If you made 10% on your savings with compounding you would increase your holdings 270% after 10 years.
 
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AK-47

Armed to the tits
Mar 6, 2009
6,697
1
0
In the 6
AK-47,

You bull shitted us about having an AK-47, we found out you really have a army surplus store Vz58
Its actually a CZ858, not a VZ58.

And you're finally admitting its not a pellet gun, this is progress for you sweetheart :biggrin1:


You can tell me all kinds of bull about what you drive and I would not believe you
I could easily prove it to you, except it doesnt really matter to me what a retard thinks


Strangely, I do believe you when you tell me you do not make 10-15% annually on your savings.

You can make 10-15% by taking advantage of every opportunity like buying a good safe stock, getting a descent dividend, selling covered calls and compounding your profits. If you made 10% on your savings with compounding you would increase your holdings 270% after 10 years
I dont think you know how to tie your shoelaces, let alone make money on stock market
 

Ceiling Cat

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
28,811
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I dont think you know how to tie your shoelaces, let alone make money on stock market
AK-47,

Question asked : Is it possible to make 10-15% annually on your savings

Question answered : Yes, with smart conservative moves, dividend earnings and compounding it is possible.

I come back and there you are wearing your Unemployed Man costume whirling away like a dervish!
 

michael_to29

Member
Jan 22, 2004
76
0
6
Toronto
I just came across a website that mentioned huge-options.com, is it a scam?
It looks like no one answered your question directly. Yes it is a scam, it is simply a gambling site, not an investment company. You are basically betting on the outcome of a stock price exactly equivalent to an over/under bet on football. You are NOT buying stocks and have no ownership, rights are protection. They are bookies and have a fool proof system. They take your money when you lose, but if you win big, it will be a real hassle to get your money out. The term to search for on Google is Binary options, you will get a lot more info.
 

AK-47

Armed to the tits
Mar 6, 2009
6,697
1
0
In the 6
AK-47,

Question asked : Is it possible to make 10-15% annually on your savings
Stock options are investments, not savings smartypants.

Savings is something you do when you put your money in the bank
 

Ceiling Cat

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
28,811
1,562
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Stock options are investments, not savings smartypants.

Savings is something you do when you put your money in the bank
AK-47,

Stop that whirling. You will screw yourself into the ground!
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts